Johnny Guitar Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Vince doesn't care anymore. That's the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I tend to think that 1985/86 JCP had too many belts. They cleaned it up to a degree by the end of the year, and by early 1987 had: World World Tag US TV US Tag Setting aside the Six-Man Titles, which no one paid too much attention to and were generally treated as "we roll these out every once in a while to show the Roadies and Dusty aren't beltless. Could it be a bit too much if you attended a show with 5 title matches? I guess. But WCW at the height of it's power had: World World Tag US TV Cruiser Ignoring the Hardcore. The WWF had a similar number, and the Hardcore was actually pushed more as a TV prop there than in WCW. Could we call the 3 that the WWF had in the 80s (ignoring the King and Million Dollar Belt) a classical, perfect number? I'm... not... sure. With the massive roster than the WWF had, the number of cards they ran each night, the number of TV shows they aired, and the lack of times titles changed in 1986-87, I wouldn't have minded two more secondary titles. This was the peak of the WWF in terms of "regular tag teams", and it would have been nice to have an IC Tag Title. Also given the dynasties of the World and IC titles in the Expansion Era of the 80s, I wouldn't have minded seeing the equiv of the TV title that some other folks could have bounced around: World Hogan: 01/23/84 - 02/05/88 & 04/02/89 - 04/01/90 Savage: 03/27/88 - 04/02/89 IC Tito: 02/11/84 - 09/24/84 & 07/06/85 - 02/08/86 Savage: 02/08/86 - 03/29/87 HTM: 06/02/87 - 08/29/88 Warrior: 08/29/88 - 04/02/89 & 08/28/89 - 04/01/90 That's two belts across six years, five men. 98% of the World Title held by two men. 78% of the IC held by four men. 88% of the two titles combined. I get that it contributed to them having "meaning". Just don't see how that would have been lessened if there was: #1 - a IC Tag Title that teams like the Bees, Rougues, Islanders, Rockers, Bushwackers, etc could have won... in addition to a team like the Harts prior to 1987 if it looked like they might not win the World Tag title anytime soon. #2 - a TV Title equiv that the likes of Jake, Bossman, JYD, Orndorff, Adonis, Orton, Duggan, Rude, etc could have won or fought over. The roster was really deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 I tend to think that 1985/86 JCP had too many belts. They cleaned it up to a degree by the end of the year, and by early 1987 had: World World Tag US TV US Tag Setting aside the Six-Man Titles, which no one paid too much attention to and were generally treated as "we roll these out every once in a while to show the Roadies and Dusty aren't beltless. Could it be a bit too much if you attended a show with 5 title matches? I guess. But WCW at the height of it's power had: World World Tag US TV Cruiser Ignoring the Hardcore. The WWF had a similar number, and the Hardcore was actually pushed more as a TV prop there than in WCW. Could we call the 3 that the WWF had in the 80s (ignoring the King and Million Dollar Belt) a classical, perfect number? I'm... not... sure. With the massive roster than the WWF had, the number of cards they ran each night, the number of TV shows they aired, and the lack of times titles changed in 1986-87, I wouldn't have minded two more secondary titles. This was the peak of the WWF in terms of "regular tag teams", and it would have been nice to have an IC Tag Title. Also given the dynasties of the World and IC titles in the Expansion Era of the 80s, I wouldn't have minded seeing the equiv of the TV title that some other folks could have bounced around: World Hogan: 01/23/84 - 02/05/88 & 04/02/89 - 04/01/90 Savage: 03/27/88 - 04/02/89 IC Tito: 02/11/84 - 09/24/84 & 07/06/85 - 02/08/86 Savage: 02/08/86 - 03/29/87 HTM: 06/02/87 - 08/29/88 Warrior: 08/29/88 - 04/02/89 & 08/28/89 - 04/01/90 That's two belts across six years, five men. 98% of the World Title held by two men. 78% of the IC held by four men. 88% of the two titles combined. I get that it contributed to them having "meaning". Just don't see how that would have been lessened if there was: #1 - a IC Tag Title that teams like the Bees, Rougues, Islanders, Rockers, Bushwackers, etc could have won... in addition to a team like the Harts prior to 1987 if it looked like they might not win the World Tag title anytime soon. #2 - a TV Title equiv that the likes of Jake, Bossman, JYD, Orndorff, Adonis, Orton, Duggan, Rude, etc could have won or fought over. The roster was really deep. The apter mags pushed for an IC tag title big time. Would someone like The Harts have benefited from an IC tag title reign in 1988-'89, between their World Title reigns The WWf's roster was deep in the late 80's. Their booking was solid for the most part. Pretty much everyone who deserved to get over did. They didn't need TV titles or iC tag titles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think they might have benefited from it in 1986 when they were feuding with the Bees and the Brothers. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think they might have benefited from it in 1986 when they were feuding with the Bees and the Brothers. John 86? Besides the Bees and the Brothers who else was there? The Bulldogs were on top, Sheik and Volkoff were still sorta going, there was the Dream Team. I guess if you counted the Funks, JYD and Santana, and Muraco and Orton, you'd have a number of teams. But not enough for IC Tag titles. Now, come '88, that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I agree, the WWF tag roster wasn't deep enough. I'm against the US tag titles even (as I've said before), but IC tag titles would have been ridiculous. The WWF was fairly consistent with number of tag teams for years. At any one time you had: Top face team - holders or in contention for tag titles Number 2 face team - up and coming, or "in the mix" for the tag titles Number 3 face team - tag team that is just kind of there, no real push, but will get wins over lesser teams and lose to those above JTTS face team - mainly there to put over other teams, only beat jobbers Top heel team - holders or in contention for tag titles Number 2 heel team - up and coming, or "in the mix" for the tag titles Number 3 heel team - tag team that is just kind of there, no real push, but will get wins over lesser teams and lose to those above JTTS heel team - mainly there to put over other teams, only beat jobbers They kept it like that for years until about 1993. Could probably go through year-by-year slotting in the various teams into those slots. Shall I do it? Ok. 1986 Top face team - The British Bulldogs Number 2 face team - The Faboulous Rougeaus Number 3 face team - The Killer Bees JTTS face team - The Hillbillies Top heel team - The Dreamteam Number 2 heel team - The Hart Foundation Number 3 heel team - The Funks JTTS heel team - Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff 1987 Top face team - Strike Force Number 2 face team - The British Bulldogs Number 3 face team - The Faboulous Rougeaus JTTS face team - The Killer Bees Top heel team - The Hart Foundation Number 2 heel team - The Islanders Number 3 heel team - Demolition JTTS heel team - The Bolshevicks 1988 Top face team - Strike Force --> Powers of Pain Number 2 face team - The Hart Foundation Number 3 face team - The British Bulldogs --> The Rockers JTTS face team - The Young Stallions Top heel team - Demolition Number 2 heel team - The Brainbusters Number 3 heel team - The Faboulous Rougeaus JTTS heel team - The Bolshevicks 1989 Top face team - Demolition Number 2 face team - The Hart Foundation Number 3 face team - The Rockers JTTS face team - The Bushwackers Top heel team - The Brainbusters Number 2 heel team - The Twin Towers Number 3 heel team - The Powers of Pain JTTS heel team - The Faboulous Rougeaus 1990 Top face team - Demolition --> The Legion of Doom Number 2 face team - The Hart Foundation Number 3 face team - The Rockers JTTS face team - The Bushwackers Top heel team - The Colossal Connection --> Demolition Number 2 heel team - Power and Glory Number 3 heel team - Rhythmn 'n' Blues JTTS heel team - The Orient Express 1991 Top face team - The Legion of Doom Number 2 face team - The Hart Foundation --> The Rockers Number 3 face team - The Rockers --> The Bushwackers JTTS face team - The Bushwackers --> Virgil and Tito Santana Top heel team - The Nasty Boys Number 2 heel team - Demolition --> The Natural Disasters Number 3 heel team - The Beverley Brothers JTTS heel team - The Orient Express 1992 Top face team - The Legion of Doom Number 2 face team - The Natural Distasters Number 3 face team - The Nasty Boys JTTS face team - The Bushwackers Top heel team - Money Inc Number 2 heel team - The Beverley Brothers Number 3 heel team - The Orient Express JTTS heel team - n/a (tag division starting to thin out now) 1993 Top face team - The Steiner Brothers Number 2 face team - The Smokin' Gunns Number 3 face team - The Bushwackers JTTS face team - n/a Top heel team - Money Inc --> The Quebecers Number 2 heel team - The Headshrinkers Number 3 heel team - The Beverley Brothers JTTS heel team - n/a The only year where there could feasibly have been an IC tag division was in 89-90, when the likes of The Bolshevicks were pushed so far down the card they were effectively pure jobbers and not in the top 4 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 SLL are you agreeing with me there or are you saying they somehow linked the World title to the NWA/WCW title with more than the visual representation of Big Goldy? Literally the first promo cut by Eric Bischoff after he re-introduced the title explicitly stated that this was the championship of the NWA/WCW, and while it's never been treated as exactly the same thing, it's always been treated as a spiritual successor that linked back to that title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think part of the problem is how they book title feuds. The title become secondary to banal things such as whether or not Punk really is straight edge or AJ choosing her love interest. I understand wanting to add some sort of angle to title matches once in a while but I don't think they build enough feuds with the title as the primary goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think they might have benefited from it in 1986 when they were feuding with the Bees and the Brothers. John 86? Besides the Bees and the Brothers who else was there? The Bulldogs were on top, Sheik and Volkoff were still sorta going, there was the Dream Team. I guess if you counted the Funks, JYD and Santana, and Muraco and Orton, you'd have a number of teams. But not enough for IC Tag titles. Regular teams? Dream Team (1/86 - 12/86) Bulldogs (1/86 - 12/86) Hart Foundations (1/86 - 12/86) Killer Bees (1/86 - 12/86) Sheik & Volkoff (1/86 - 12/86) Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk (1/86 - 3/86) / Jimmy Jack Funk (4/86 - 8/86) Rougeaus (2/86 - 12/86) Rotundo & Spivey (5/86 - 12/86) Islanders (8/86 - 12/86) Muraco & Orton (10/86 - 12/86) In a sense, there always were 8 "regular" tag teams going around in the year. That doesn't mean these guys teams together every card, but you'll find Sheik & Volkoff teaming together regularly in January... and in December. Muraco & Orton were a pair of singles slapped together, but they were given a push to title contention: they were going around the horn with the Bulldogs (including a challenge here in LA) that climaxed with DK's injury against them. There also were the Hillbillies and Moondogs. Luke was something of a jobber, but Jim was treated pretty well when healthy. Moondogs were jobbers. There were other jobber teams that I left out. Might be leaving out some other ones, like the Machines (Super & Big & Giant setting aside ones like Hulk Machine). Ayway, 8 regular teams, two having belts and six chasing, along with occasional singles being slapped together like Tito & Steamer or Tito & JYD or heel pairings against face champs... it's pretty easy to book. I also was trying to get across the number of house shows and TV programs: there was enough out there where, with 5 titles (World, IC, TVish, WTT, ICTT) that you weren't going to have a card with 5 titles being defended on it. That also let you spread around the titles for folks to help get pushed, and to have happen in a variety of markets and/or tv programs. The WWF Title wasn't going to change hands all year, the IC just once, and the WTT just once. Two more wouldn't have meant that suddenly the place was Memphis with "history being made" every week via title change-o-rama. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Bundy and Studd and Tito and Morales got some play on Wrestling Challenge as tag teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I totally forgot about the Islanders, but Rotundo and Spivey were on TV for only a little while, despite how long they were around. Still not enough for an IC Tag division. Studd and Bundy were more of a presence. Like I said, come 88 you had more than enough teams to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I tend to think that 1985/86 JCP had too many belts. They cleaned it up to a degree by the end of the year, and by early 1987 had: World World Tag US TV US Tag Setting aside the Six-Man Titles, which no one paid too much attention to and were generally treated as "we roll these out every once in a while to show the Roadies and Dusty aren't beltless. Could it be a bit too much if you attended a show with 5 title matches? I guess. But WCW at the height of it's power had: World World Tag US TV Cruiser Ignoring the Hardcore. The WWF had a similar number, and the Hardcore was actually pushed more as a TV prop there than in WCW. Could we call the 3 that the WWF had in the 80s (ignoring the King and Million Dollar Belt) a classical, perfect number? I'm... not... sure. With the massive roster than the WWF had, the number of cards they ran each night, the number of TV shows they aired, and the lack of times titles changed in 1986-87, I wouldn't have minded two more secondary titles. This was the peak of the WWF in terms of "regular tag teams", and it would have been nice to have an IC Tag Title. Also given the dynasties of the World and IC titles in the Expansion Era of the 80s, I wouldn't have minded seeing the equiv of the TV title that some other folks could have bounced around: World Hogan: 01/23/84 - 02/05/88 & 04/02/89 - 04/01/90 Savage: 03/27/88 - 04/02/89 IC Tito: 02/11/84 - 09/24/84 & 07/06/85 - 02/08/86 Savage: 02/08/86 - 03/29/87 HTM: 06/02/87 - 08/29/88 Warrior: 08/29/88 - 04/02/89 & 08/28/89 - 04/01/90 That's two belts across six years, five men. 98% of the World Title held by two men. 78% of the IC held by four men. 88% of the two titles combined. I get that it contributed to them having "meaning". Just don't see how that would have been lessened if there was: #1 - a IC Tag Title that teams like the Bees, Rougues, Islanders, Rockers, Bushwackers, etc could have won... in addition to a team like the Harts prior to 1987 if it looked like they might not win the World Tag title anytime soon. #2 - a TV Title equiv that the likes of Jake, Bossman, JYD, Orndorff, Adonis, Orton, Duggan, Rude, etc could have won or fought over. The roster was really deep. JCP has way too many titles, especially with the odd national title or western stages heritage title defense. Everyone felt like they had a title. It was good for when you brought new people in who needed a hook, but bad otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I totally forgot about the Islanders, but Rotundo and Spivey were on TV for only a little while, despite how long they were around. ? 5/24/86 Championship Wrestling Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated Steve Lombardi & Paul Christy at when Spivey pinned Lombardi with a slingshot splash after an airplane spin from Rotundo at 3:56 (Rotundo's return match) 6/7/86 Championship Wrestling Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated Terry Gibbs & Joe Mirto when Spivey pinned Mirto with a bulldog after the airplane spin from Rotundo at 3:27 6/7/86 All-Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Brian Mackney & Larry Finnegan at 3:29 when Rotundo pinned Mackney with an airplane spin 6/23/86 Primetime Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated the Moondogs at 11:37 when Rotundo pinned Rex following an airplane spin (6/14/86; Madison Square Garden) 6/28/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated the Gladiator & Tiger Chung Lee at 3:26 when Spivey pinned the Gladiator following a bulldog 6/28/86 All Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated John Rizzo & Iron Mike Sharpe at 4:24 when Spivey pinned Rizzo with a bulldog 7/14/86 Primetime Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated Les Thornton & Tiger Chung Lee at 12:16 when Spivey pinned Thornton with a bulldog (6/27/86; Boston Garden) 7/19/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Al Navarro & Gino Carabello when Rotundo pinned Navarro following an airplane spin at 2:47 7/26/86 All Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Tiger Chung Lee & Les Thornton at 4:03 when Rotundo pinned Thornton with an airplane spin 8/2/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Steve Lombardi & Roger Kirby when Rotundo pinned Kirby after an airplane spin at 3:26 8/4/86 Primetime Jimmy Jack & Dory Funk Jr. defeated Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey at 15:25 when Dory pinned Spivey after Jack hit a clothesline while Spivey attempted the bulldog (7/27/86; Maple Leaf Gardens) 8/16/86 All Star Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Gino Carabello & Les Thornton at 2:18 when Spivey pinned Carabello with a bulldog 8/30/86 Championship Wrestling Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Steve Lombardi & Gino Carabello at 4:35 when Spivey pinned Carabello with a bulldog Yeah... those are two different matches form different tapings. Someone wasn't paying attention in booking them. 9/7/86 Challenge Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Don Muraco (w/ Mr. Fuji) & Iron Mike Sharpe when Rotundo pinned Sharpe with a small package at 3:07, which had originally been reversed by Muraco, but then re-reversed by Spivey 9/8/86 Primetime Nikolai Volkoff & the Iron Sheik (w/ Freddie Blassie & Slick) defeated Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo at 12:46 when Sheik pinned Spivey after Volkoff hit Spivey with Slick's cane as Spivey attempted a powerslam on Sheik; after the bout, Rotundo eventually cleared Sheik, Volkoff, and Slick from the ring; Blassie left ringside prior to the bout beginning (8/25/86; Madison Square Garden) 9/20/86 Superstars Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake (w/ Johnny V) via disqualification at 3:08 when Johnny V broke Rotundo's cover 9/30/86 Primetime Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart fought Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo to a 20-minute time-limit draw as Neidhart broke Spivey's cover on Bret after Bret sustained a bulldog (9/6/86; Boston Garden) Spivey went out for knee sugery after a 9/20/86 match against the Harts at the Spectrum 17 tv matches to this point since late May. 10/14/86 Primetime Mike Rotundo pinned the Iron Sheik (w/ Slick & Nikolai Volkoff) at 7:17 after Slick accidentally hit Volkoff with his cane; after the bout, all three men attacked Rotundo (9/28/86 MLG) 10/26/86 All American Wrestling Mike Rotundo fought Jim Brunzell to a double count-out (10/20/86 MSG) Rotundo go in two TV matches while Spivey was out. They didn't tape any squashes matches for him while Spivey was out, probably to not confuse people... standard WWF goofiness when someone is expect out short term. The Primetime match at MSG, though, looks like it's to get across the "team": Rotundo has to go it alone against another regular team (probably was booked as a tag before Spivey went out), gets the win, then has his clock cleaned by the heel team. 11/29/86 Superstars Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Rick Renslow & Dave Wagner when Spivey pinned Wagner with a bulldog at 2:15 (Spivey’s return from knee surgery) 12/14/86 Challenge Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Bob Colt & Steve Lombardi at 2:20 when Spivey pinned Colt with a bulldog 12/16/86 Prime Time Wrestling Danny Spivey pinned Moondog Spot with a bulldog at 9:36 Mike Rotundo pinned Moondog Rex with an airplane spin at 9:34 12/27/86 Superstars Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey defeated Moondog Spot & Tim Patterson at 1:39 when Rotundo pinned Patterson with the airplane spin 12/28/86 Challenge Adrian Adonis, Bret Hart, & Jim Neidhart (w/ Jimmy Hart) defeated Mike Rotundo, Danny Spivey, & SD Jones at 3:34 when Jones submitted to Adonis' sleeper as the other four men were battling in the ring Four tv tags in little over a month after Spivey comes back, along with the Primetime singles matches to get across the teams. 21 tv tags and three singles that get across the team, and one extra singles match... interestingly enough against another tag team specialist (Brunzell) while Spivey was out. One would suspect given how they were booked on the TV tapings, they're missing probably 2-3 squash matches because Spivey was out. These were their "house show tapings", some of which aired on Primetime and are also listed above: 6/14/86 MSG: Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated the Moondogs at 11:37 when Rotundo pinned Rex following an airplane spin 6/24/86 Boston: Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey defeated Les Thornton & Tiger Chung Lee at 12:16 when Spivey pinned Thornton with a bulldog 06/28/86 Spectrum: Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated Hercules & Tiger Chung Lee at 12:26 when Spivey pinned Lee with a bulldog 7/26/86 Spectrum: Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo defeated the Moondogs at around the 20-minute mark when Spivey pinned Rex with a crossbody 7/27/86 MLG: Jimmy Jack & Dory Funk Jr. defeated Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey at 15:25 when Dory pinned Spivey after Jack hit a clothesline while Spivey attempted the bulldog 8/23/86 Spectrum: Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake fought Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey to a time-limit draw at 16:17 8/25/86 MSG: Nikolai Volkoff & the Iron Sheik (w/ Slick) defeated Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo at 12:46 when Sheik pinned Spivey after Volkoff hit Spivey with Slick's cane as Spivey attempted a powerslam on Sheik; after the bout, Rotundo eventually cleared Sheik, Volkoff, and Slick from the ring; Freddie Blassie helped accompany Volkoff & Sheik ringside before the bout but went backstage before the match began 9/6/86 Boston: Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart fought Dan Spivey & Mike Rotundo to a 20-minute time-limit draw as Neidhart broke Spivey's cover on Bret after Bret sustained a bulldog 9/20/86 Spectrum: Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart defeated Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey at 11:15 when Neidhart pinned Spivey following a clothesline from Bret as Spivey attempted a running bulldog on Neidhart Spivey went out for the knee surgery after this match. 9/28/86 MLG: Mike Rotundo pinned the Iron Sheik (w/ Slick & Nikolai Volkoff) at 7:17 after Slick accidentally hit Volkoff with his cane; after the bout, all three men attacked Rotundo This aired on the 10/14/86 Primetime. Didn't list it above. 10/20/86 MSG: Mike Rotundo fought Jim Brunzell to a double count-out (10/26/86 All American Wrestling) 11/8/86 Spectrum: Mike Rotundo pinned Iron Mike Sharpe (sub. for King Kong Bundy) at 6:03 with the airplane spin 11/26/86 Summit: Danny Spivey pinned Moondog Spot with a bulldog at 9:36; Mike Rotundo pinned Moondog Rex with an airplane spin at 9:34 (both aired on the 12/16/86 Prime Time Wrestling) 12/6/86 Boston: Jacques & Raymond Rougeau fought Mike Rotundo & Dan Spivey to a double disqualification at 12:01 when all four men began brawling in the ring 12/13/86 Spectrum: Brutus Beefcake (w/ Johnny V) pinned Mike Rotundo with his feet on the ropes at 9:25; Dan Spivey pinned Greg Valentine at 6:28 after Valentine collided with an interfering Brutus Beefcake on the ring apron; Beefcake came ringside mid-way through the bout; after the match, Spivey was double teamed, with Valentine applying the figure-4, until Mike Rotundo made the save; prior to the bout, Johnny V was ordered backstage by the referee after taking a cheap shot on Spivey 10 house show tapings, along with two house shows where they were split into singles matches to face members of another team. Rotundo got booked into three house show taping matches while Spivey was out. 15 house show tapings form May-Dec. They were on TV like other regular tag teams. Mike left in February of the next year. Couple more house show matches against the Dream Team. On TV they were getting paired with Blackjack Mulligan, then it looks like paired around the circuit with Demolition as Spivey teamed Jerry Allen to put them over into March. Anyway, I identified these regular teams: Dream Team (1/86 - 12/86) Bulldogs (1/86 - 12/86) Hart Foundations (1/86 - 12/86) Killer Bees (1/86 - 12/86) Sheik & Volkoff (1/86 - 12/86) Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk (1/86 - 3/86) / Jimmy Jack Funk (4/86 - 8/86) Rougeaus (2/86 - 12/86) Rotundo & Spivey (5/86 - 12/86) Islanders (8/86 - 12/86) Muraco & Orton (10/86 - 12/86) For most of the year they had 8 teams, and by Oct-Dec they had 9 of them. I'm leaving out Stud & Bundy since they were largely a team to go against Hogan or Andre. Also leaving out the Machines as they were a team booked with Andre's storyline. I'm not counting the Moondogs since they were the JTTS. On the other hand, they worked in tags on 3 MSG cards (including against the champ Bulldogs), 1 Boston card, 2 Spectrum cards, and had a totally of 7 Primetime matches that went 10+ against other tag teams. I didn't list the Can-Am's above, but they debuted on the 11/15/86 Superstars, which would make it 10 teams by the end of the year. I suspect if I looked at every card there would probably be another team I'm overlooking in there. Was 1988 radically different? Did they have 15 teams at a given time rather than the 10 they closed 1986 with? The first two Survivor series weren't very different, and each either some JTTS teams and/or some slapped together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 1988: Demolition Strike Force British Bulldogs Conquistadors Nikolai Volkoff and Boris Zhukov Islanders Killer Bees Hart Foundation Paul Roma and Jim Powers Rougeaus and I feel like I'm missing a couple of teams as I'm looking at the start of 88. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 The Islanders did their last taping in April, and started drifting apart over the next two months by early/mid June. Haku got crowned King in early July. Martel got hurt in early June, and that was it for Strike Force. The Bees were done as a team in late August. Bulldogs were done after Survivor. The Rockets debuted at a taping at the end of May, essentially starting 5/31 and 6/1. Powers of Pain debuted on house shows in early June, first taping was late June and their first TV was mid July. Brain Busters debuted in October. Bushwackers debuted on house shows at the very end of December, which included one MSG. Conquistadors are like me including the Moondogs in 1986, which I avoided though pointed out an argument could be made. That's kind of why I laid out the months when listing the 1986 teams: it's pretty fluid as teams come and go. Anyway, it's pretty much the same range of teams at a given time: about 8-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 jdw, did you see my post here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=5510645 That's more or less right isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slickster Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 To be fair, WWE's focus on popping a rating was established during the Monday Night Wars but it was cemented as the company's status quo once the company went public in 1999. Little did we know then that going public would effectively force WWE to not change its TV format for over a decade for fear of losing ratings/sponsors/investor confidence/millions of dollars. The company dies without TV, and cable TV is more competitive than ever. I don't see how going public ties in. For most companies, going public means you can take fewer risks for fear of losing investor confidence. For example, if the WWE were a publicly traded company in 1997, I highly doubt WWE would have been able to go full bore into starting the Attitude Era. WWE turning its backs on kids and families - the very audience that made them the center of the wrestling universe - in order to completely change their image, their booking philosophy, and their TV presentation? On paper, that's like Toys R Us deciding to become like Spencers Gifts or Hot Topic. It would have been a tough sell to shareholders, to say the least. I think that being publicly traded has led to WWE deciding to create and stick with a permanent 'WWE Style,' which encompasses not just the look and feel of WWE programming but also extends to the booking philosophies as well. If you went to a WWE live event or watched a random Raw in 2005, 2008, and 2011, aside from less blood and exposed skin on the latter two shows you'd see pretty much the same product presented in the same way. Some of the players would be different but the overall presentation would be the same, right down to the camera angles and the formatting of each TV show. To their credit, WWE hasn't overcome the limitations of investor expectations, it has embraced them. WWE has changed professional wrestling from an art form into a commodity, making it a generic touring product like the Harlem Globetrotters, Cirque du Soleil, or Disney On Ice. This has enabled them to guarantee a certain 'WWE Style' product to arenas, to advertisers, and to corporate partners, which has given the company long-term financial stability. (After all, if you don't radically experiment with the product, you don't risk losing a lot of money.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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