Are weight divisions needed anymore?

[Mr Wrestling X]

Discuss?

 

For me personally, I don't feel championships with weight limits belong in wrestling. Sure, from a kayfabe perspective, wrestling is supposed to be competitive, subject to it's own unique set of rules and classifications of wrestlers. This idea is particularly apparent in Puro, where weight divisions are still very much alive and well (although NJPW could potentially phase out the heavyweight and junior heavyweight titles as the top belts, in favour of an "openweight" world title - given the similar popularity of both weight divisions these days).

 

WWE eliminated their cruiserweight division in 2008, prior to this, they eliminated the weight limits on their world titles, when Rey Mysterio won the World Heavyweight Championship. Of course, this hasn't warranted any adjustment, as the title is still referred to as the "World Heavyweight Championship" when a heavyweight holds it (curiously enough, when Mysterio and Bryan were champions, they were referred to as "the world champion"). Of course, they can't just outright rename the title the "World Championship", because this sounds more impressive than the "WWE Championship" - which is generally seen by all involved as the superior world title (yes, it's treated AS A WORLD TITLE, despite not having the word "world" featured in it!) - confusing or what eh?

 

I would be fine with there being weight divisions for secondary titles, since it would enforce the idea that wrestlers want to face opponents who are similar in stature and style, before venturing into the unpredictability found in the world title. Although this concept would be pointless in American pro-wrestling, as per the idea of "competitiveness" which I mentioned earlier (modern American wrestling, is pretty much drama by design, where titles only mean as much as the person holding them).

[Loss]

They work better in a promotion that is more sports-like in its presentation. I don't think WWE really needs weight classes at this point.

[rzombie1988]

I like the idea of weight divisions personally. It worked great for British promotions and it's a better way to have multiple champions instead of declaring champions for each WWE show. Plus, it could lead to catchweight matches between champions and should theoretically lead to lighter and more talented guys on the roster.

[Al]

Rey Mysterio killed the cruiserweight division. What I mean is, a guy like him became SO talented that you couldn't reasonably limit him to just wrestling cruiserweights. You want him against your best heels. And when the smallest guy on your roster is main eventing, it makes it hard to sell a separate cruiserweight champion.

[Loss]

I don't know if Liger was a "draw", but Liger was absolutely a star who was marketable and over. I wonder if they could have made Rey the Liger of the U.S. instead of whatever it was that he was.

[Mr Wrestling X]

I don't know if Liger was a "draw", but Liger was absolutely a star who was marketable and over. I wonder if they could have made Rey the Liger of the U.S. instead of whatever it was that he was.

Without a shadow of a doubt, had Liger chosen to bulk up and modify his in-ring style, he would probably have been IWGP Heavyweight Champion. Even as a Junior, Liger's had some thrilling "catchweight" bouts against the likes of Keiji Mutoh and Shinya Hashimoto. He has such strong crossover appeal.

[notoriusvig]

I'd love to see another weight class become as big as the heavyweight division. Imagine if the only fucking division in the UFC that mattered was the heavyweight division. Every other division was pushed as completely meaningless and inferior no matter how good the guys were. Fighters like GSP would be losers, instead of draws like they are now. It makes no sense that we are so fixated on just one division and that in today's wrestling culture, any other division would not draw without re-education of the fanbase.

[FLIK]

I don't know if Liger was a "draw", but Liger was absolutely a star who was marketable and over. I wonder if they could have made Rey the Liger of the U.S. instead of whatever it was that he was.

Without a shadow of a doubt, had Liger chosen to bulk up and modify his in-ring style, he would probably have been IWGP Heavyweight Champion. Even as a Junior, Liger's had some thrilling "catchweight" bouts against the likes of Keiji Mutoh and Shinya Hashimoto. He has such strong crossover appeal.

 

The jr division was pretty weak at the time so they tried the "let's make Liger a Heavyweight" experiment complete with modified look in parts of 2000/2001 & it bombed horribly.

 

 

The light weight guys having their own division which is actually treated with respect & credibility is one of the things i've always enjoyed about Japanese wrestling but no one outside of that country can really pull it off anymore. TNA was doing well with the X-Division for a time but it fell to shit thear much like WCW before them.

[Mr Wrestling X]

^

 

Ahh, but had they done it earlier (mid 1990's?) when Liger was being put matches with Muta and Hashimoto, it may have worked a lot better. The downside though, is that Liger was arguably the biggest Junior-Heavyweight draw during that time.

[S.L.L.]

Were weight divisions ever needed in the first place? It's just another tool to be used well or used poorly or not used at all as promoters see fit. The concept itself is completely value neutral as far as I'm concerned.

[El-P]

Weight division in NJ allowed Tiger Mask and Jushin Liger de be huge stars they probably wouldn't have become otherwise. They were kings in their own kingdom. As a smaller heavyweight, I don't think Liger would have obtained to the same status. I always enjoy a good lightweight division when booked the right way.

[MJH]

For the same reasons you have separate women's divisons/promotions - yes.

 

The biggest stars in boxing over the last ten years sure haven't been the heavyweights... most of the UFC's biggest names over the years haven't been heavyweights (though I guess the 205-lbers would work as heavyweights in pro-wrestling)... the only time I can really think of a company where they had a few weight classes, all pushed pretty equally, was here in the WoS days, and plenty of the smaller guys were just as popular as the bigger ones. Most people I know and talk to tend to prefer the speed and technique of the smaller divisions in most sports anyway.

[Eduardo]

Just thought I would share this here, Steve Sims talking about weightclasses in Mexico:

 

Actually, first, let me list the classic weight class category – different lucha libre commissions and promotions have slightly different limits (these days, the upper limit for "semicompleto" or light-heavyweight is usually drawn at 87 kg), but this is the traditional table:

 

CATEGORY

 

WEIGHT IN KGS. WEIGHT IN POUNDS

 

PAJA 47.627-48.988 105-108

 

MINIMOSCA 48.988-50.802 108-112

 

MOSCA 50.802-52.163 112-115

 

SUPERMOSCA 52.163-53.524 115-118

 

GALLO 53.524-56.338 118-122

 

SUPERGALLO 56.338-57.152 122-126

 

PLUMA 57.152-58.964 126-130

 

SUPERPLUMA 58.964-61.237 130-135

 

LIGERO 61.237-63.603 135-140

 

SUPERLIGERO 63.603-66.678 140-147

 

WELTER 66.678-69.853 147-154

 

SUPERWELTER 69.853-72.674 154-160

 

MEDIO 72.674-79.378 160-175

 

SEMICOMPLETO 79.378-86.184 175-190

 

CRUCERO 86.184 -88.451 190-195

 

COMPLETO 88.451+ 195+

 

The weight classes used to be taken very seriously. It was always true that with an under-the-table payoff, a promoter could get a commissioner to look the other way to promote a title match with one overweight wrestler, but this was rare. This was because the weight class system was adapted from the one used in boxing, and it was in the lighter weight classes in boxing that the Mexican won their World Championships in boxing. Sports fans growing up in Mexico not only understood the weight class system, but also endorsed it – that's where their titles were won.

 

Add to that the fact that most all foreigners brought in to wrestle in Mexico were larger than most of the luchadores, and there was great incentive to use a weight class system for creating a promotion's champions.

 

Historically, the middleweight championships promoted in Mexico, whether National or World, were those considered to be the most prestigious, followed by light-heavyweight, then welterweight, then heavyweight. And, it surely helped that the biggest wrestling-movie stars, El Santo and The Blue Demon, were welterweights early in their career and later middleweight.

 

And., over the last ten years, it has been more than occasionally true that overweight wrestlers have won a title. The classic example is the match on November 25, 2003, when El Satanico, weighing well over 200 pounds, won the Mexican National Welterweight Championship (supposed limit 154 pounds). Boy did people complain about that for a while.

[sek69]

The thing about weight classes is that US based promotions seemed to have a phobia about billing a guy under 200 pounds pretty much until Rey became a star and there was no way to realistically claim he was near that weight.

 

It makes more sense in lucha since you're dealing with smaller guys, most of their heavyweights would be average sized guys to most US fans. Hell, Marco Corleone looks like the Big Show in most of his matches in CMLL and he wasn't a guy who stood out as particularly large in WCW.