Recommendations for 20 Crockett TV matches to watch

[BrickHithouse]

If you're missing any of those 1988 matches, a set that is coming out in a couple of weeks will cover it.

 

/shameless plug

[Troy]

If you're missing any of those 1988 matches, a set that is coming out in a couple of weeks will cover it.

 

/shameless plug

Tell us more

[JerryvonKramer]

Loss, are you sure on the dates for some of these? That Race vs. Flair 8/17/83 is something I can't even find listed anywhere. I've found a lot of the other matches, but that one is proving pretty elusive.

[Loss]

Loss, are you sure on the dates for some of these? That Race vs. Flair 8/17/83 is something I can't even find listed anywhere. I've found a lot of the other matches, but that one is proving pretty elusive.

It's on a WWE DVD (the second Flair collection that WWE released called Nature Boy Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection). It's listed as 8/31/83.

 

The first Flair DVD set has it too, but it's edited there.

[JerryvonKramer]

Ha ha, I have that collection! I just never thought to look there. Thanks Loss.

[Loss]

It's not a "TV" match, which is why I didn't recommend it, but the Flair/Morton cage match from the GAB tour (on the WWE Four Horsemen DVD) is a classic.

[JerryvonKramer]

I have that set too and yes love that Morton match. I don't think we're going to be particularly strict about them being TV matches. Chad and I just had a bit of a panic because I guess I assumed that most of this stuff would just be on youtube, but it isn't.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've also just realised that Will's Horseman set will have all the Horsemen related matches -- which is most of them. Not sure why my first impetus was Youtube.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've been through all the Horsemen set listings to see which matches are on which disc, and there are three I can't place:

 

 

22. Tully Blanchard vs Don Kernodle (Worldwide 05/11/85) - disc 1

 

23. Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff (WCW Sunday Edition 08/11/85) - ???? missing

 

26. Flair/Arn/Ole vs Dusty/Magnum/Manny (Worldwide 12/21/85) - disc 7

24. Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (WCW 12/28/85) - disc 7

25. Ole Anderson vs Magnum TA (WCW 12/28/85) - disc 7

 

21. Flair and Arn Vs Garvin and Rhodes (2/22/86) - ???? missing

 

3. Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin (Worldwide 05/03/86) - disc 13

4. Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (Pro 05/86) - disc 14

6. Ric Flair vs Barry Windham (Worldwide 01/24/87) - disc 22

8. Ric Flair & Lex Luger vs Ron & Jimmy Garvin (6/27/87) - disc 26

9. Rock & Roll Express vs. Arn and Tully(9/19/87) - disc 30

10. Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin (Cage match) (WWW 9/26/87) - disc 31

11. Barry Windham vs Tully Blanchard (WCW 01/23/88) - disc 35

14. Sting vs. Flair (Pro 2/20/88) - disc 36

15. Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs Lex Luger, Barry Windham & Sting (Main Event 04/03/88) - disc 38

 

27. Windham vs. Tully (4/10/88) - ???? missing

 

16. Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Barry Windham & Lex Luger (4/23/88) - disc 38

 

 

Are we sure the dates for the missing matches are correct? For example, Arn seems to have a singles match on 2/22/86

[Loss]

I've been through all the Horsemen set listings to see which matches are on which disc, and there are three I can't place:

 

23. Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff (WCW Sunday Edition 08/11/85) - ???? missing

This is the one dated 7/21/85 on the 4H set.

 

21. Flair and Arn Vs Garvin and Rhodes (2/22/86) - ???? missing

http://facedl.com/fvideo.php?f=akiuaxoiwua...-ric-flair-arn-

 

27. Windham vs. Tully (4/10/88) - ???? missing

http://www.wwe.com/videos/tully-blanchard-...-match-26050095

 

(I'd watch this fast.)

[JerryvonKramer]

Thanks Loss.

 

We can't actually watch WWE.com videos in the UK. It's a really frustrating thing, but there's no way to subscribe, watch videos or basically do anything.

[Loss]

I don't want to step on shoe's recommendation on that one, but he agreed that the January match between the two is the key one. That's the one I'd recommend watching.

[BrickHithouse]

I don't want to step on shoe's recommendation on that one, but he agreed that the January match between the two is the key one. That's the one I'd recommend watching.

Definitely

[JerryvonKramer]

It's on the list for sure, but I'm going for completism, so the second match will be interesting.

 

Tully's probably the only guy who can challenge Flair for the number 1 spot at this stage based on quantity of great matches.

 

Windham's a guy I'm going to be looking at very closely, because I think he's consistently underperformed on the big shows. His best match so far was probably that tag match from Clash 1. Best singles match vs. Sting at Clash 3.

 

I feel I still haven't seen the best of Windham, so he's someone I'm hoping this process will help a lot.

[Loss]

Barry Windham is a guy I've always thought had the most hidden TV gems of just about any wrestler ever. I seem to find new TV matches of his that I like pretty regularly to this day. I agree that his big show matches don't really spotlight him at his best, which is curious. I do think the matches selected will show that Windham was as good as just about anyone in the world, with the exception of a very select few, during the 80s. I don't think his output is as strong after the heel turn, but that's a reflection of JCP not running as many long, competitive matches as they had in the past. I also think the heel run is when Barry peaked as a "star". He was a great hand for a long time, but he didn't feel drastically behind Sting and Luger types as a star after the heel turn.

[shoe]

I don't want to step on shoe's recommendation on that one, but he agreed that the January match between the two is the key one. That's the one I'd recommend watching.

 

Totally agree the January match is the one to watch.

[soup23]

Wanted to chime in that I started with the April 88 Windham/Tully match since it may be taken down anyday now. I haven't watched the 1/88 match in quite some time but I thought this match was great. 16 minutes of all action, Windham killing himself by throwing himself into the guardrail twice, and some of the best delayed selling I have ever seen from both men. I also liked the finish since based on JJ's interference during the match, they ran through the gambit of predictable finishes but each one got neutralized leading to a satisfactory finish. I never will understand why Windham turned as the trio of him/Luger/Sting along with the last ride of Dusty going against the Horseman seems like the perfect ready made feud of 1988

[Loss]

How is the 80s TV watching going?

[JerryvonKramer]

Pretty good. Show 1 will be recorded on Sunday, we're hoping to get through the first 16 then and cover 88-89 in the second one. Safe to say that most of these would have been "match of the night" contenders on any supercard, so I'm still not sure how it's going to go. Reviewing 16 longish matches in 2 hours or so may be ambitious.

 

Guess it depends on how long I let Chad talk about Chikara for at the start

 

I couldn't love watching matches from the old WCW shows at Techwood studios more.

[soup23]

It has been really fun plowing through these tv matches and some of these matches may be contenders for my top 5 matches of NWA 80's list we are going to comprise. One thing though with this NWA stuff and I think this will be a predecessor to the NWA 80's set, is that it is really hard for me to watch a lot of these matches in one sitting. I have been able to watch the yearbooks and even part of the AWA set for 2-3 hours at a time with no problem. Here after the 12/28/85 Ole vs. Magnum and Garvin vs. Flair back to back, I was drained.

[JerryvonKramer]

Very quickly before I upload the show, does anyone know where that Race vs. Flair match on 8/17/83 took place? Greensboro?

[JerryvonKramer]

We've decided to add Flair vs. Morton from GAB as a bonus match.

 

That takes us up to 29 total.

 

Might be cool to round it off as a cool 30. Any more from 88 or 89 that might make the grade? Preferrably a match that does not contain any of these workers:

 

- Flair

- Arn

- Tully

- Windham

- Midnights

- Rock n Rolls

 

We know all about these guys and what they can do, and we have seen many many matches of theirs now. I understand this is because they were the best JCP had to offer, but still.

 

If there's that elusive great Mike Rotunda or Tom Zenk TV match out there, or maybe someone like Tommy Rich or Terry Funk in 89, I think it'd be cooler to see one of those.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I veto any and all suggestions for Dynamic Dudes matches

[Loss]

I think Flair/Steamboat at the Capital Center (3/18/89) is the best choice to round out the list, but if you're looking for something more quirky, try Bob Orton vs Shane Douglas from WCW on 4/8/89. Here's my review from a few years back:

 

Another pleasant surprise. Nice match, far better than Orton/Steamboat on the DVDVR set. This is more of a case of the surly veteran facing the younger, less jaded high flyer and the younger guy getting much further than would be expected. It starts out with Douglas trying to beat Orton at his own game by keeping him grounded and working the headlock, with announcers Ross and Hayes pointing out that he is thinking like a veteran. He's not really going for the kill though, and that seems to be what is keeping him from taking his game to the next level, which Hayes points out. Orton ends up fighting back, and Douglas keeps the dream alive for a few good nearfalls, but finally succumbs when he deviates from his game plan and tries a top rope move, but gets crotched to set up Orton's superplex. These two could have had a terrific feud -- certainly would have been better use of both guys than what they ended up doing the rest of the time.

It's not going to threaten the top of your list, but it's a much better match than you'd expect it to be.

 

Luger vs Murdoch is probably Luger's best TV match from '89. There are two though, and one is pretty bad, so I could see difficulty there in making sure you are watching the right match. Terry Funk vs Eddy Guerrero is a good novelty match, but it's only five minutes long. Gilbert and Muta had a pretty memorable match on Power Hour.

 

Most of the best Crockett matches did in fact involve the same guys, so it's difficult to come up with matches that don't involve them.

[Loss]

A few more to choose from. Old comments from me here.

 

Road Warriors & Paul Ellering v Steve Williams, Kevin Sullivan & Mike Rotunda - WCW 02/11/89

 

This is WAY better than you'd expect it to be. Feels much more like an All Japan 6-man than anything else, even if it only goes about 8 minutes or so. Really intense, heated and incredibly stiff and fast-paced. They get over some of the pairings quite well -- specifically Animal/Doc -- and there's some really nice brawling outside. Mike Rotunda has a rep for being generic, but he's anything but generic here, throwing some wicked kicks and landing a vicious clothesline. Rotunda really has one of the best clotheslines ever. He also seems to be directing traffic for much of the match. Ellering is Ellering, and all he can do is a dropkick, but he's in and out quickly, and he does his one move well, so good for him. Animal plays FIP as the heels attempt to destroy his arm. Some really incredible arm work here, with Williams picking up the ringside steps and throwing them at his shoulder and then jumping off the apron onto Animal's arm while Kevin Sullivan holds him still. Everything you'd want from a US heavies six-man, barring maybe a little more time.

 

Sting v Mike Rotunda - WCW 04/01/89

 

Ah, the first match on TBS to air from Center Stage! Crowd is rabid throughout, and for good reason, and this is an excellent match. Rotunda had the TV title for over a year at this point (not counting a brief Rick Steiner run), so they did everything they could here to create a big moment, containing both the blowoff for Rotunda as the long-reigning TV champ and Sting's first singles title win. Something like this really couldn't be duplicated today because title changes aren't as important and because no one as over as Sting would go nearly two years without even winning a belt. It also helped that Ricky Steamboat and Lex Luger, the top two singles champions, came out and stood in Sting's corner to ensure that the Varsity Club wouldn't interfere.

 

That sort of overbooking has swallowed matches whole in the past (think Flair/Sting at Bash '90), but here it worked, because the entire match was structured to foreshadow a title change and permanent end of a long run, and unlike Flair/Sting at the Bash, there was no 2-year plus build that seemed anti-climatic when all the focus was on all the antics at ringside. The focus never really leaves the ring here at all. This is like a better version of Rude/Warrior at Summerslam '89, since Sting is a better Warrior and Rotunda, when he was game, was as good as a motivated Rude. Rotunda's bumping is awesome, as he goes sailing to the floor when attempting a jumping lariat and even bumps off of a shoving match later on in the match, when Sting begins a pretty spirited comeback.

 

It's amazing to me how much heat they can get off of simple moves like a side headlock, just because of Sting's charisma and connection with the crowd. It's also pretty amazing how devastated the crowd was when Kevin Sullivan found a way to sneak past the babyfaces and interfere, making the crowd think they weren't going to see a title change at all. The kickout was a great moment, and even better was Rotunda actually attempting a variety of suplexes immediately after that and Sting kicking out of that as well. It was clear at that point that the cheating was no longer going to work. He had to outwrestle Sting if he wanted to win the match, and with Luger and Steamboat looming, there was no chance of getting himself DQ'd to retain. Once that reality sets in to the audience, the heat kicks into overdrive and Sting finally pulls off the win.

 

The wrestling is nothing breathtaking, but this is a textbook example of a match that accomplishes something decisive through basic stuff where the goal was to involve the crowd and foreshadow a title change. I can't even remember the last time a world title change got this kind of reception. Awesome match. I will pimp it to death when it comes time for the Crockett nominations at DVDVR.

 

Lex Luger v Kendall Windham - WCW 04/08/89

 

Good Lord, talk about a match way better than it has any right to be. Luger does a somersault from the apron into the ring to avoid a spear to the floor and Kendall takes a vicious bump to the outside. Yes, that sequence actually happened and Luger went to the air. The finish was also nice with Luger countering a top-rope lariat into a powerslam that looks it killed poor Kendall. One of the best competitive squashes I've ever seen.

 

Rick & Scott Steiner v Fabulous Freebirds - WCW 11/18/89

 

I'd love to know the politics behind this one, as Garvin is one uncooperative bastard when he's in there. Poor Hayes is left to carry his team, take most of the bumps, set up most of the spots, call the match *and* take the pinfall. As a one man show from him, it's surprisingly effective, considering he was seen as washed up at this point. Of course, he's limited physically, but his mind is still there, and he knows how to lay out a match really well. Garvin sells absolutely nothing for either guy. Hayes sets up Rick as FIP and builds to a Scott tag and Garvin immediately attacks him when he comes in and doesn't sell the tag at all. It's obvious he was upset about dropping the belts, as he didn't even do all the Freebirds gaga that normally came for them pre-match early on, just staring at the camera while Michael Hayes does it by himself. Lita must have studied this match to master her "I'm jobbing" face we'd see from her the past few years on WWE TV. Very good match almost entirely because of Hayes, and this time period and the way he's viewed may need to be looked at again, because the Luger match from Wrestle War earlier in the year is much better than people say, and he was the glue that held this one together.

 

Sting v Lex Luger - WCW 12/23/89

 

Fun match. 1989 Luger did have a lot going for him, and you could actually put together a series of his matches from that year against widely different opponents where Luger brings something different pretty much every time out. Other matches, like Luger/Murdoch, see him bring a surprising amount of offense, but here, Luger is all about the heeling and playing to the crowd. Luger uses basically no big offense at all in this match, but he plays the crowd so well by yelling at them, begging off from his opponent and sneaking in cheating tactics when he can that the match still works quite well for other reasons. In this match, he also apparently decided he wanted to be Terry Funk and decides to do Terry's trademark drunken selling, which is highly entertaining. They work some good nearfalls toward the end with Sting coming back strong after Luger is in control, but Luger ends up holding up a chair when Sting tries the Stinger splash, which both draws a DQ and prompts a big brawl with all the top stars in the promotion running in. While Lex was never truly a great worker, even if he was good for a spell, he does an admirable job playing to Sting's strengths here by giving him plenty of openings and making him look really good. It's easy to see why they were the hottest young stars in the company at this time.

[soup23]

I say we go for Sting vs. Rotunda from 4/1/89 since Sting is someone we will be seeing a ton more of coming up and we always usually have a good bit to talk about with IRS to.