Bob Backlund

[JerryvonKramer]

While I agree with much of what jdw said here, my take is a little different -- or rather, I have an elaboration / nuance to mention. I've talked about this before somewhere (Rick Martel thread), but let me do this again without the Batman analogy for people not to get hung up on the specifics of that analogy, which are not important.

 

I think the WWF had 2 different types of challenger for the champ.

 

1. Super villain who is going to stick around as a lingering threat, whether to the champ or to the company in general.

 

2. "Villain of the week" who is in and then out allied with one of said super villains or not.

 

I don't actually think this changed that much between Backlund and Hogan.

 

The second category of guy is much easier to deal with. This is your Kamala -- standard big heel come in, 3 matches against the champ, couple of jobs on the way out and done deal. Both Backlund and Hogan had a conveyor belt of these to face at MSG / Philly / and later on SNME. In comic book terms these are more like your "one shots". They may even come back around eventually but in the meantime they won't be there. jdw has identified most of these.

 

Your "super villains" also include managers. Backlund had the three wise men. Hogan had Heenan, Piper and DiBiase.

 

What the WWF did that was the SAME in both cases is that when a top heel was going to be sticking around for a while (Patera, Valentine,DiBiase -- let's keep Patteron, Piper, Savage and Bossman to one side since they all turned face, which was another way to stick around), they used the main event feud to establish them in the company.

 

I've said before, it's pointless thinking in terms of a "number 1 heel", the company never worked like that. It's more like a rotating rogues gallery.

 

Once they've had the main event feud, the top heel is useful in other ways, primarily:

 

- Angles and feuds to get over other babyfaces

- Hatching schemes that have wider impact -- this is more your managers, but with DiBiase it's stuff like purchasing the 30 ticket at Rumble 89 (tied in to Hogan going 2 vs 1 against Bossman and Akeem), or turning Bossman face, or bringing in Undertaker, or any number of other things he did over the years; Piper has his own catalogue of crimes.

- Another match on the card to care about (see Valentine vs. Strongbow, Patera vs. Patterson / Atlas, DiBiase vs. Jake / Dusty / Virgil)

- "Filler" matches / angles in between programs for the champ -- think DiBiase plugging in with Zeus at SNME / Survivor Series or plugging vs. Hogan or Warrior when he was needed.

- Possible IC title run -- Patera had this, DiBiase had the Million Dollar Belt, you can think of your own other examples

 

In a sense, I don't see it in terms of "decline" or getting de-pushed down the card, but rather becoming part of the fabric of the company. In TV-land they talk about a "family of faces". WWF had a "family of super villains" who'd be a reasonbly persistent thorn in the sides of the faces. In the 70s and up until 83 this was chiefly the 3-wise men. In 84-93 it was Heenan and Piper, then Heenan and DiBiase.

[jdw]

Then there are some oddballs...

 

Dibiase is tricky. He got elevated opposite Hogan, but the Screw Job + Buying The Title + Macho Feud had a storyline path that transitioned/sustained Ted past Hogan. He stuck around the WWF for years after the Macho feud, but he pretty much faded down the cards similar to a Backlund challenger. Since it was the post-territory days, they did more to keep him over as a wrestler/character, so he got feuds like with Dusty and Virgil, and got the Tag Titles. But his really strong main event run was 1987-88 against Hogan and then Savage, pretty much the title related stuff. They oddly didn't try to re-heat in a major way against Warrior in 1990 or against Bret in 1992/93. So... it's hard. The stuff with Hogan, especially The Double Hebners, made him a national star. But like Bossman, he dropped down and stuck around.

 

With Dibiase their was always the story of this would be the gimmick Vince would use for himself if he was a wrestler. So Ted had that to keep him in the mix as opposed to a Terry Funk type of wrestler for the WWF.

 

That's why I put him down in the Oddball category. He was a guy that Vince/The WWF loved, so they always gave him something to do. You could pair him off with people, like the Dusty feud.

 

On a level, he was like Jake. Vince & Co liked him. They could always give him something to do. Jake really wasn't often a main eventer, and oddly never got paired with Hogan for a major feud. But he was very much part of the "WWF Product" that Vince could push, and people knew him.

 

On the flip side, Ted's run on top really was Hogan-to-Savage, and after that was down a level... or two. Unlike Savage, he didn't come out of that run a Bigger Star. Instead, it was kind of proved he couldn't win the WWF title, and time to move on to other things.

[jdw]

Not sure if I agree with either the "no changes" thing, or the Super Villan / Villan of the Month thing.

 

The era post expansion was quite a bit different in the opportunities to heels.

 

Ivan had a decent run in the WWF in 1978/79. Setting aside TV tapings (which were usually done while the heel was still finishing up his run elsewhere), his known start was 08/28/78 at MSG and his known end was 04/28/79 in Philly. Exactly 8 months, which is a pretty decent run. He worked 8 MSG cards, 6 Philly cards, etc. His entire run was tied around finishing up his run against Bob: started that first MSG card, and his last match against Backlund was on a small house show a week before that last Philly appearance. But he since he was working essentially fulltime with the WWF, he was given other matches. The last 6 MSG matches were against folks other than Backlund, and pretty clearly a "phase down" before getting paired with Bruno on his exit. His run in Boston was just Bob, in Baltimore is was Bob plus dropping down to Putski after. Etc.

 

Good run, ran it's course, got some feature matches against Dusty (who worked the WWF here and there) and Bruno. But it still was just 8 months.

 

In contrast, Studd debuted at house shows at the 01/23/83 MSG card. Right in against Backlund. Then he moved onto others, like Andre and a turned Snuka. He was still in the company the following year when Hogan came in, and got paired there... and of course still with Andre.

 

Studd was still in the company in late 1986, nearly 4 full years *straight* with the company. He was still getting the occasional title shot against Hogan in 1986.

 

Studd is hardly the only one.

 

I mentioned Muraco. His 1981 run was Bob-centric, with a Pedro off shot... largely going over Pedro to have WWF Champ vs IC Champ. He was working opposite Bob a week after his house show debut (June MSG), and his last known match on that run was against Bob. We remember the Pedro because the title changed hands twice.

 

When he returned at the end of 1982, it was the same thing: work with Bob, get the belt from Pedro, work stronger with Bob... and then...

 

Muraco was still working in the WWF in late 1988. He did use the second run with Bob to get stronger established as a "top heel", and had those feuds with Rocky and Snuka. Then... he stayed around forever. Some feuds, like the Tito one and the Steamboat one. Got the odd trio of matches at MSG against Hogan.

 

I think if we looked at Bob's challengers prior to the 1983, and comp them with Hogan's, we'll see Hogan's sticking around for ages. Guys like Kamala are exceptions to the rule, and frankly he left for his own reasons pissed at Vince rather than the WWF not having a slot for him. The ones in Bob's era that stuck around for a long time weren't that long, unless they flipped like Pat.

 

* * * * *

 

On the Super Villan / Villan of the Month thing, not sure I agree. Longer post at some other time.

[thebrainfollower]

You also need more top heels when you have 3 cards a night with 2-3 matches that draw among them.

 

There were definitely some villains of the week. Kamala's a good example. Terry Funk is another, he pretty much left after his Hogan run (or during it IIRC). Killer Khan is another.

 

84-86 is a bit more confusing because Hogan didn't really have focused feuds until Orndorff. He might have a 3 match series with Savage at MSG or Muraco but he fought pretty much every big name heel in the company in 84 and again in 85. It seemed random and not really focused. Piper had a bit of a TV build up as did Savage but nowhere near as much as the Orndorff turn and I don't think it's a coincidence that's when the WWF REALLY took off with ticket sales.

 

I do think it's as much about guys having a bunch of places to go to to be the top guy as it is WWF's super villain storytelling.

[JerryvonKramer]

As well as Kamala and Funk they brought in guys like Afa and Sika for "one-shots". Bundy was sort of a "villain of the month". The little run with Race. Patera in 85.

 

They'd also use "chump" challengers -- like midcard guys who were on the roster given a little 1-2 match run. Nikolai Volkoff comes to mind.

 

Then you've got the "one-shots" who just kinda hung around for a while with nothing at all to do. One Man Gang in 87 comes to mind.

[thebrainfollower]

Hercules is another. Beefcake struck me in that vein but he actually had more matches with Hogan in, I want to say 85, than anyone (extenuating circumstances there) else. Valentine had a few shots. So did Bob Orton.

 

Sika's a good example. Afa is so good an example I forgot. Even Moondog spot main evented a few shows with Hogan. Haku had some later. Rude had one match with Hogan. Bottom line Hogan fought virtually every heel at one time or another from 84-87. He didn't seem to have "just one challenger" very often in the same way Bob did. More a rotating variety.

 

I wonder if that wasn't because Hogan card paydays were so much higher. Keep all the heels happy by giving them a shot or two. You want guys to stay around beyond a year so you lure them with a few big pay days a year. With Bob they didn't want guys staying around very often (See Baron Scicluna to see what happened to you if you did).

[khawk20]

I wonder if that wasn't because Hogan card paydays were so much higher. Keep all the heels happy by giving them a shot or two. You want guys to stay around beyond a year so you lure them with a few big pay days a year. With Bob they didn't want guys staying around very often (See Baron Scicluna to see what happened to you if you did).

I think with Hogan's schedule, having him come in and do a two or three match program in an area was sometimes impossible, so he'd come in for a month to pop the crowd with what turned into a throwaway chellenger. Rude is the primary example in my mind, though there are others (One Man Gang, Killer Khan, probably some I've forgotten).

 

In Rude's case he didn't really lose any of his heat because it was a one-off title match and losing to Hogan wasn't going to derail a heel much if at all in that regard.

 

No doubt the payoffs were better, but I think Hogan's overall schedule (wrestling, media, celebrity stuff Vince would have been getting him involved with) accounted for a lot of the one-offs.

[jdw]

My thing on the Villan of the Week/Month is probably this:

 

2. "Villain of the week" who is in and then out allied with one of said super villains or not.

 

I don't actually think this changed that much between Backlund and Hogan.

 

The second category of guy is much easier to deal with. This is your Kamala -- standard big heel come in, 3 matches against the champ, couple of jobs on the way out and done deal. Both Backlund and Hogan had a conveyor belt of these to face at MSG / Philly / and later on SNME. In comic book terms these are more like your "one shots". They may even come back around eventually but in the meantime they won't be there. jdw has identified most of these.

I was trying to get across in the first post that there was an Era Change in what happened to opponents Post Challenge in the Backlund Era to the Hogan Era.

 

In the Backlund Era, these guys (such as Duncam) would do their title spots, maybe have some stuff down the card, and head out of the WWF. Someone like Ivan might stick around for 8 months, work something else, but they would be moved out and go somewhere else.

 

In the Hogan Era, they stuck around. A long time.

 

Here are the 1984 challengers. I may be missing one or two, but I doubt it changes this much:

 

Masked Superstar

Shiek

Orndorff

Studd

Schultz

Valentine

Steele

Orton

Kamala

Ventura

Fuji

Piper

Volkoff

Beefcake

Afa

Sika

Rex (TV)

Valiant (TV)

Chung Lee (TV)

 

Looking at them...

 

* Masked Superstar

 

He was a Backlund legacy, and these small number of matches may simply have been Hogan taking over the dates. He did leave.

 

 

* Shiek

 

Transition/bridge champ. He stayed forever... or at least until being fat, lazy and an addict made Vince let him go. But he even came back after that. Anyway, he stayed for many years.

 

* Orndorff

 

Stayed for years. Title shots into 1985. Face turn. Major heel turn and more title shots. It's highly likely he would have stayed for years beyond 1987 if he didn't get hurt during the Hogan feud and lose the Mr Wonderful body. Vince was a massive mark of his up to that point.

 

* Studd

 

Came into the WWF well before Hogan's run, some matches with Backlund but not a major feud, then stuck around. Major opponent for Andre, and then long time regular "safe" challenger for Hogan. They just loved running this, and if we had a compete record of Hogan in the WWF, we might find that only Savage had more singles title matches with him. Stuck around until 1986.

 

* Schultz

 

Not long for the world, but that really was his own doing on some level. He's a bit of the exception.

 

 

* Valentine

 

Stuck around for years, strong push into 1986.

 

* Steele

 

A bit of the role he had for years in the WWF, working part time, before getting the bigger push opposite Savage in 1986-87.

 

* Orton

 

Stuck around for years.

 

* Kamala

 

Brought in as a feud for Andre, which Kamala appears to have walked away from before it was over. One known throwaway match against Hogan in Hartford. Not even a true Villan of the Month for Hogan - just a fluke match, in contrast to the 1987 feud.

 

* Ventura

 

Stuck around forever. His health prevented him from wrestling more, and transitioned to the booth. It's safe to say that if he didn't have the health issues, he would have worked fulltime and then part-time for a long time.

 

* Fuji

 

Joke opponent.

 

* Piper

 

They kept them apart until October, and then few singles matches. Even as his singles matches were going on with Hogan, his major feud was the Snuka one. It wasn't even like Piper was tied into a lot of Hogans' challengers - he had his own feud going on. There's some Orton and Orndorff, but not really as much in 1984 as people thinkg in the sense of it tying into Piper all the time.

 

Anyway, Piper stuck around the WWF for ages when not doing the movie thing.

 

* Volkoff

 

Stayed for years.

 

* Beefcake

 

Stayed for years, only leaving with Hogan.

 

* Afa

* Sika

 

Throwaways.

 

* Rex (TV)

* Valiant (TV)

* Chung Lee (TV)

 

Not terribly relevant.

 

* * * *

 

The original point that Kevin was making was on the Post Challenge of Backlund and Hogan's opponents. I tried to get across that it's a hard comp for two reasons, one of which is the company changed due to those opponents sticking around in the Hogan Era for a long time. That might create an illusion that the opponents "gained" more from facing Hogan because they stuck around, but I was trying to get across that might be due to them simply sticking around for years on end.

 

Orton stuck around for years. Did he gain anything from his relatively small number of challenges of Hogan? Probably not. He gained a good deal by standing next to Piper on The Pit, having a cool gimmick (the Cast), being involved in Piper's programs for more than a year, and constantly being part of the WWF Product.

 

Was Valentine helped or hurt by his matches with Hogan? Doesn't seem to have been hurt. But this was a pretty big key:

 

09/24/84 - 07/06/85 Intercontinental Champ

08/24/85 - 04/07/86 WWF Tag Champ

 

He spent a year and a half as IC/Tag Champ in a key expansion period as that saw the WWF opening up a lot of towns/markets.

 

That stuff just didn't happen in the 1978-82 Backlund Era. The exceptions were face turns: Pat and Snuka. In 1983 we started to see the change: Studd and Muraco were two heels who stuck around for years. [slaughter from 1983 was similar to Pat and Snuka as a face turn.] But that's also a period of Expansion starting to be thought about, and by 1984 it hit. Would Studd and Muraco have stuck around through 1984... and all the way into 1986 (for Studd) and beyond (Don) if the promotion didn't expand? Or in Studd's case if Hogan didn't become champ, with Studd being a natural (and favorite) opponent for him? It doesn't seem likely. Instead, the 1983 runs of Studd and Muraco would have been something similar to Patera's close-to-year long run in 1980.

 

Expansion changed how long opponents stuck around post-challenge, and likely created an illusion to how the Challenge impacted them. With Backlund, we see they're not up to much, are gone... so they were depushed / moved down the cards. With Hogan, they stuck around forever after.

 

Except...

 

Not a lot of them got anything like the push they had against Hogan. Some moved down quickly. They may, like Muraco in 1985, have found a hot new feud. But those really weren't main event feuds. A few like Valentine moved "down" but to that secondary belt level where they would main event non-Hogan shows. Good push... not Hogan Opponent level push, but good push. Eventually that would fade as well. Most tended to move down like OMG: stuck around for years as a character, but really wasn't pushed at the top parts of the card.

[JerryvonKramer]

Yeah I think it's easy to see that, part of it of course is that a lot of them had *nowhere to go*. Or at least nowhere viable beyond Crockett -- which a lot of the guys you mention had just come from.

 

I also want to say that 84-85 is a transitional period and that Vince didn't get into his own groove of booking the challengers until at least 86. The list of Hogan challenges from 84 is more than anything just a bit random. Just a bunch of guys who happened to be around.

 

I think if you kept tracking the challengers into 85, 86, 87, 88 you'd see that gradually Vince fell into the sort of pattern I was describing.

 

84-85 seems like a weird time in general for the company to me.

[shoe]

Yeah I think it's easy to see that, part of it of course is that a lot of them had *nowhere to go*. Or at least nowhere viable beyond Crockett -- which a lot of the guys you mention had just come from.

 

I also want to say that 84-85 is a transitional period and that Vince didn't get into his own groove of booking the challengers until at least 86. The list of Hogan challenges from 84 is more than anything just a bit random. Just a bunch of guys who happened to be around.

 

I think if you kept tracking the challengers into 85, 86, 87, 88 you'd see that gradually Vince fell into the sort of pattern I was describing.

 

84-85 seems like a weird time in general for the company to me.

 

The groove your talking about may be going from George Scott to Patterson as booker also.

[jdw]

Yeah I think it's easy to see that, part of it of course is that a lot of them had *nowhere to go*. Or at least nowhere viable beyond Crockett -- which a lot of the guys you mention had just come from.

In 1984-85 there were places to go, and some places a bit desperate for talent. By 1986 there was nothing.

 

The thing is the Vince was (i) running 2-3 crews, (ii) needed talent to fill it, and (iii) wanted to keep guys. So even after Muraco faded down the cards post-IC Title, Vince kept him, moved him into some Hogan matches in 1985, ran the Steamboat feud, etc. If you're Don in 1985, there wasn't a huge incentive to move. In earlier times, he might have headed to the AWA to be a challenger for Martel's World Title, building off the fact of the two IC runs and twice being at world title challenger level against Backlund. Or... gone somewhere else.

 

 

I also want to say that 84-85 is a transitional period and that Vince didn't get into his own groove of booking the challengers until at least 86. The list of Hogan challenges from 84 is more than anything just a bit random. Just a bunch of guys who happened to be around.

It really wasn't just a bunch of guys who happened to be around.

 

Studd and Orndorff were his primary challengers, still getting title shots in Nov/Dec. In fact, they'd get them into the following year as well. The were pushed against Hogan.

 

Behind them, Shultz and Sheik and Valentine got the most challenges. Shultz was pushed against Hogan, and Sheik was always old reliable off the title change. Valentine got shots until his focus was eaten up with Tito.

 

The thing is that they were running a lot of new towns, balancing out between what had run in some towns with what hadn't in others. They had long had this issue with MSG getting the bite at Challengers usually before the rest of the territory, then it moving outward... while MSG shifted to the next challenger. When you expand as widely at the WWF did in 1984-85, boom goes being able to juggle this stuff.

 

We still had that into 1986: MSG got Savage in 12/85, 01/86 & 02/86, but his overall series with Savage elsewhere extend prior to that and after it.

 

I've talked in the past about how interesting it would be to see the Big Board where the WWF Office was blocking out their various feuds and who was doing what where. JCP in 1986 would have been interesting as well.

 

Anyway...

 

What you had starting around the time of the Orndorff feud was:

 

* Hogan working a bit more flexible of a schedule (fewer dates, though not as few as later)

* him getting programmed into Primary Feuds

 

The first made it a bit easier to schedule him with having to say, "We're done with Savage in New York but it's still his primary feud... who the hell are we going to run him with on this MSG card before the Orndorff turn... aw crap... well... let's give him Adonis." Or Muraco... or Studd for the 100th time, etc.

 

The second item made it a bit easier to see who he was primarily working a feud with. Orndorff, then Kamala getting heated up, then...

 

You quickly find it isn't a rule even into 1987. As Kamala is on the tail end, he's got:

 

* Herc

 

Off the SNME match the year before making Herc someone you could roll out against Hogan... and he was rolled out a good deal.

 

* Race

 

Focused in some parts of the country... but we didn't get it here in LA

 

* Savage

 

We got him out here Post-Mania with very little behind it other than the local promos if I recall... and it's suprising just how many Hogan-Savage matches there were in 1987 before the turn.

 

* Khan

 

There are a good number, but it's mixed in with...

 

* OMG

 

... and...

 

* Ted

 

That wonderful focus of the Orndorff and then Kamala feuds just fades as 1987 goes on and Hogan is facing 5 different guys after Mania, and Herc a decent number of times before.

 

I'd have to look a little closer at 1988 because that's a bit off due to Savage, and Savage going heel late in it (things like Savage-Warrior being randomly tossed out). 1988 for Hogan was focused at the start (Ted/Andre-centric), then the long time off with the movie. When he returned, it was really scattershot until he settled down into the Bossman feud. 1989 is a bit more focused with Hogan: Savage for a massive chunk of the year, a little legacy Bossman after Mania, Perfect at the end of the year, a little Bad News mixed in. The 1991-92 end run of Hogan's dynastic run was largely focused: Slaughter, Flair, and Sid (in tags) heading into Mania. Again, his even more limited schedule working largely weekends allowed for it to be so easy... and stretch out Savage all the way ti *October* in 1989.

 

 

I think if you kept tracking the challengers into 85, 86, 87, 88 you'd see that gradually Vince fell into the sort of pattern I was describing.

It's a bit stop-start. Just when you think the world is nice ordered (1986-87 Orndorff + Kamala run), it goes haywire again. I think in 1989 after Mania it becomes much more clear for the rest of his time with the WWF through Mania in 1992. But his limited schedule, and another trip off to make a movie, really alters him from being a full time worker that they need to juggle feuds around on (due to working cities multiple times) to being one much easier to book.

 

 

84-85 seems like a weird time in general for the company to me.

1987 was as well. It's hard when Hogan's main rival (Andre at Mania & Survivor in 1987, then The Main Event + Mania + SummerSlam in 1988) isn't going around the house show circuit with him. They have to juggle around other guys.

 

Orndorff Turn + Kamala Run is a nice calm period... unless we look too closely at when Andre-Hogan started their storyline/program. You've got poor Kamala going around the house show circuit all the way through June 1987, and Hogan-Andre just swamps him.

 

John

[jdw]

Here are his opponent in 1987, with a date of an early singles match and a late singles match in the series (old spreadsheet, I haven't check Graham's site for newer matches he's found):

 

11/30/86 - 06/27/87 Kamala

02/16/87 - 03/21/87 Herc

05/02/87 - 10/03/87 Race

05/23/87 - 08/16/87 Savage

07/08/87 - 11/14/87 Khan

08/27/87 - 01/17/88 One Man Gang

08/23/87 - 03/13/88 DiBiase (and picked up after the movie)

 

Kamala of course was from the prior year, while OMG and Ted dragged into the next year.

 

I included Herc since he basically was the Kamala Alternative Opponent leading into Mania. I didn't include Jake, who got a trio of matches in late 86 / early 87 before he turned... almost like they were trying it out.

 

One thing is shows is that similar to 1984/85 there's still a lot of overlap going on. The tail of the Kamala feud is still going on while Race and Savage are heating up. Khan is popping up while Race and Savage are still going around, and then still getting matches while OMG and Ted are popping up. We think of Ted & Andre vs Hogan being an all consuming feud for Hulk in the second half of 1987 into 1988, but there's OMG getting a pretty fair number of matches right in the middle of one of Hogan's most famous feuds.

 

Like I've said... I would have loved to see how they blocked this (and frankly all their talent working multiple rivalries) out on the Big Board.

 

John

[thebrainfollower]

I think a lot of that was due to Andre's health. If Andre post WM III was in the same health he was in around 78 they would have run that match everywhere and made a fortune. Probably the old 3 match series ending in a cage.

 

Andre wasn't but they knew that was the money feud when he returned. And Vince was working on the MDM character but those two things had to segue. So they go back to the reliable Hogan vs. whoever for a few months. Race, Kamala, Herc and 87 Savage really didn't have much buildup. Khan did but that angle was only in some markets.

 

And looking at the WM 3 fallout, who's really built up enough to challenge Hogan? About the only heel with a win and tons of heat was Dangerous Danny Davis. I don't think that.........actually it might have worked. People wanted Davis DEAD in 87 and if there was ever a "I KNOW I'm getting what I want to see" match it's that one. I'd have run it a few times to see what happens.

[jdw]

I think a lot of that was due to Andre's health. If Andre post WM III was in the same health he was in around 78 they would have run that match everywhere and made a fortune. Probably the old 3 match series ending in a cage.

I doubt it. I suspect Vince knew it was "special" and wanted to save it for another PPV. They never ran Hogan-Andre around the house shows regularly in that era, while Andre-Warrior got run *after* Hogan-Andre got played out on PPV and TV.

[jdw]

And looking at the WM 3 fallout, who's really built up enough to challenge Hogan? About the only heel with a win and tons of heat was Dangerous Danny Davis. I don't think that.........actually it might have worked. People wanted Davis DEAD in 87 and if there was ever a "I KNOW I'm getting what I want to see" match it's that one. I'd have run it a few times to see what happens.

Hogan drew reasonably well against all of those guys he faced in 1987.

 

There's a bit of a sense that they didn't want to make every Hogan Opponent have a storyline as EPIC~! hot shotting as Hogan-Orndorff and Hogan-Andrea. Hogan-Kamala has angle/storyline to it, but there were vestiges left in that period of not having to overboard on every opponent. It's likely that they knew they wanted to do something big again with Andre to heat him back up, just probably weren't as clear in their mind as to what. Ted eventually came along, and over time they plotted out The Main Event title change in their minds, and there you go.

 

John

[thebrainfollower]

I see your point JDW and I agree it made sense running in that way to make it special. But I'd argue that was a happy coincidence more than a plan.

 

Look at the timing for a Hogan run.

 

Early 87 - Andre turns heel. Obviously running matches before WM III would have been moronic and they never did that. But Andre was in no condition to wrestle at that point anyway.

 

After Mania 3 - Andre's hurt. He doesn't get back into a ring (with one exception) until Survivor Series. After that his matches are mostly tags against Hogan until after WM IV.

 

After WM IV Hogan's gone for the summer and Andre's carrying the C shows with Duggan. Hogan comes back but the MDM feud is played out and they figure that Savage needs more help than Hogan to draw so PRESTO put him with Andre. That plays out until December in most markets.

 

December 88 - Could have happened here but for whatever reason Hogan-Bossman is red hot so again let's use Andre to main the C's (with Jake this time)

 

After WM V - Hogan-Savage makes more sense at this point. That played out through the fall in most markets.

 

Maybe they could have run Hogan-Andre instead of Warrior-Andre but I'd argue by that point Andre's mystique was gone. The dude didn't even win a replacement feud with Hillbilly Jim for cripes sakes! Even by then as a ten year old WWF mark of all marks I could see Andre was fading and wasn't that shocked when Warrior beat him.

 

So really the only time they could have run the feud logically was when Andre was needing surgery. I'd like to think Vince kept it waiting as part of a master plan but I'm not sure, I think he did the best with what was forced upon him. If not why not simply book another national feud for Hogan after WM 3 (at April's SNME for instance)?

[JerryvonKramer]

More later but I want to say the Ted 87 stuff was before he debuted on tv. I'm on my phone so can't look it up but suspect they took place in Texas or Watts country.

[JerryvonKramer]

Ok, remember that all I said was that Vince's style of booking Hogan as champ was taking on "villain of the month" challengers while being needled by perrennial "super villains".

 

I'm using this site here for match listings: http://hulkhoganhistory.weebly.com/match-history.html

 

I'm going to try to categorize every challenger.

 

Supervillain: perrennial threat, a live and present force of evil in the company, a top heel who will keep coming back for more

 

Villain of the month: someone with a bit of build to face the champ over a series of matches over a brief period, then they might leave or go on to do something lower down the card

 

One-shot: someone, usually with some name value, brought in for a one or two matches against the champ -- can be someone already on the roster, or some from outside brought from outside

 

Chump: just a nothing challenger to give the champ someone to beat

 

*NOTE: I can't make the post I wanted to because of the IPS error. I've tried for 30 minutes now to remove offending characters but still getting it, so I give up. Will have to just give abbreviated version without the listings. It was more effective when you could see it date-by-date so you'll have to look at that yourself*

 

1984

 

Supervillains:

 

Studd, Sheik, Orndorff, Schultz, Piper, Heenan

 

Villains of the month:

 

Masked Superstar, Valentine, Steele, Beefcake

 

One-shots:

 

Afa, Sika, Orton

 

Chumps:

 

Lee, Fuji, Jerry Valiant, Rodz, Gibbs

 

85 to come.

[JerryvonKramer]

1985

 

Supervillains:

 

Muraco, Piper, Orndorff, Heenan

 

Villains of the month:

 

Ventura, Patera, Beefcake, Studd, Orton, Valentine, Bundy, Terry Funk, Savage

 

One-shots:

 

Iron Sheik, Volkoff, The Moondogs

 

Chumps:

 

Lee, Gibbs, Rodz etc.

[JerryvonKramer]

1986

 

Supervillains:

 

Piper*, Orndorff, Heenan, Bundy

 

Villains of the month:

 

Terry Funk, Savage, Adonis, Muraco, Studd, Hercules, Orton, Kamala

 

One-shots:

 

Iron Sheik

 

Chumps:

 

none!

 

* January only

[JerryvonKramer]

1987

 

Supervillains:

 

Heenan, Andre

 

Villains of the month:

 

Kamala, Hercules, Race, Savage, Khan, One Man Gang, DiBiase*, Bundy

 

One-shots:

 

Sika, Reed

 

Chumps:

 

none!

 

* "supervillain" angle starts 12/19/87

[thebrainfollower]

Jerry were you able to find any 86 Hogan-Piper matches?

[JerryvonKramer]

1988

 

Supervillains:

 

DiBiase, Andre, Heenan, Bossman*

 

Villains of the month:

 

One Man Gang, Bad News Brown*, Haku*, Akeem*

 

One-shots:

 

Rude, Virgil, Zhukov

 

Chumps:

 

none!

 

* Savage was champ

[JerryvonKramer]

Jerry were you able to find any 86 Hogan-Piper matches?

01/25/86 - St. Louis, MO - Kiel Auditorium (attendance: 8,000): WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan beat Rowdy Roddy Piper by countout

 

Piper shouldn't really be listed in 86. He spent a chunk of the year injured and then turned face later on and was tagging with Hogan vs. Orndorff and Orton Jr. by the fall.

 

It's a "hangover" from 85 really, I might put it in brackets to note that.

[JerryvonKramer]

1989

 

Supervillains:

 

Bossman*, Savage, DiBiase

 

Villains of the month:

 

Akeem*, Zeus, Bad News Brown, Mr. Perfect

 

One-shots:

 

none!

 

Chumps:

 

none!

 

* Savage was champ

 

89 is VERY spotty because of the movie schedule.