Dylan Waco Posted June 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Backlund was Missouri heavyweight champ for like 8 months getting multiple wins over Race but the one thing he had against him in that run was his other opponents were Lord Alfred Hayes, Roger Kirby, Killer Karl Krupp which at the time those guys were midcard guys. Still though the Missouri title was a big deal even in 1976. I think in wrestling lore more than anything else. Was it a big deal the next year when Dick the Bruiser and Dick Murdoch traded it back and forth? Or the main belt for a small territory that happened to be run by the President of the NWA? This is slowly turning into a mild pet peeve of mine (is there such a thing?), but I really don't like the idea of calling St. Louis a territory. They had no loop and didn't even run weekly. It just seems like the wrong word. I think the Missouri title was a pretty important title and a clear weather vain of sorts in terms of judging where people were in terms of perception among the "upper crust" of wrestling insiders. It's possible that is all myth, but I don't think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 It was a big deal because it was Sam's title and he pushed it as the #2 title in the world. Now was it a big deal everywhere else in the public's eyes absolutely not but with the power of St. Louis it was a big deal with the promoters because if Sam was high on you then you were just about a made man in most places. I understand that is the perception. And maybe it is true. But does that stand under scrutiny? Was Dick Slater a made man anywhere he went? Murdoch? DiBiase? They seemed to fluctuate up and down the card depending on how they got over in any given place. The only guy he really seemed to "make" with the belt was Race, who was the local star. (Please keep in mind that these are real questions and not snarky questions. The internet isn't always good about making that clear.) Have you read The Strap yet? I haven't and need to. I realize the guy who wrote it is a St. Louis guy and the title is going to be put over huge obviously, but I am interested to see what it helps add to the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 It was a big deal because it was Sam's title and he pushed it as the #2 title in the world. Now was it a big deal everywhere else in the public's eyes absolutely not but with the power of St. Louis it was a big deal with the promoters because if Sam was high on you then you were just about a made man in most places. I understand that is the perception. And maybe it is true. But does that stand under scrutiny? Was Dick Slater a made man anywhere he went? Murdoch? DiBiase? They seemed to fluctuate up and down the card depending on how they got over in any given place. The only guy he really seemed to "make" with the belt was Race, who was the local star. (Please keep in mind that these are real questions and not snarky questions. The internet isn't always good about making that clear.) Sure a lot of big names got the title but those guys were some of Sam's favorites and they were always going to be on top. Slater was a hot act at that time as he was coming off a very good run for GCW and was an Eddie Graham guy. The mags loved him too and it made since that he would get run in St. Louis because he was a Terry Funk clone. Backlund obviously was boosted in VJM's mind since Bob had Sam's blessing. Kevin Von Erich got boosted when he got it, sure he was a famous son but giving him that title gave him credibility. DiBiase & Patera both didn't get any NWA World title consideration until they got the belt. What you said about perception is the absolute truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 This is slowly turning into a mild pet peeve of mine (is there such a thing?), but I really don't like the idea of calling St. Louis a territory. They had no loop and didn't even run weekly. It just seems like the wrong word. Didn't they defend the belt in the Kansas City territory too? Or no? I need to get that book. I have held off mostly after following Scott Teal on Facebook and seeing his repellent politics. Should get over it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Missouri title was only defended in St. Louis. Kansas City was Bob Geigel & Harley Race's territory where the Central States titles were defended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Missouri title was only defended in St. Louis. Kansas City was Bob Geigel & Harley Race's territory where the Central States titles were defended. So if Race was Missouri champ he didn't defend in Kansas City? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 This is slowly turning into a mild pet peeve of mine (is there such a thing?), but I really don't like the idea of calling St. Louis a territory. They had no loop and didn't even run weekly. It just seems like the wrong word. Didn't they defend the belt in the Kansas City territory too? Or no? I need to get that book. I have held off mostly after following Scott Teal on Facebook and seeing his repellent politics. Should get over it.... I imagine my politics are insane to most people, as mutualism is not exactly well revered by anyone other than mutualists. Still, I cannot imagine what Teal's politics are like and prefer not to know, though you have piqued my interests.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Missouri title was only defended in St. Louis. Kansas City was Bob Geigel & Harley Race's territory where the Central States titles were defended. So if Race was Missouri champ he didn't defend in Kansas City? Interesting. Well here is the thing that people don't look at.....the venue they ran in Kansas City was Memorial Hall which was in Kansas City, Kansas. They would run Kemper Arena on rare occasions but they were on the Kansas side mostly. This has me wondering what it would've been like if Paul Boesch had his own title like Sam for Houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 This note ballooned quickly. What was the deal with Snuka in 77. I know I saw him brought into portland around that time already seeming like an established face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Yeah Snuka was the top babyface for PNW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Rocky Johnson? He was an established star by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Vince Sr was a pretty shrewd dude. Whoever else he could have pushed in Backlund's spot it would have made money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I remember reading an interview with Tony Garea a few years back where he claimed that he was almost offered the spot, but they went with Backlund instead. If you think about it, it's not as crazy as it sounds at first. Garea was over, he was a multiple time tag champ, and he was a good looking guy who could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have no doubt Garea believes that and I think it's possible he was strung along/led to believe he might get a big singles push at some point, but I don't think there is anyway he would have gotten the Backlund slot, or even the title period. Garea may have been over, but he was firmly established as a tag wrestler in the NYC territory. I'm not saying he couldn't have broken out of that, but it would have been pretty tough to break that mold. Snuka was a no go as PNW was stage one in grooming and NYC didn't push guys in a meaningful way coming out of stage one. I always heard Johnson was a pretty divisive figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm not as familiar with this period, but what little I've seen of Backlund didn't make me feel that he was as disliked by the audience as some claim. It could be true, but again with what little I did watch I didn't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm not as familiar with this period, but what little I've seen of Backlund didn't make me feel that he was as disliked by the audience as some claim. It could be true, but again with what little I did watch I didn't see it. Personally I think it's complete bullshit. I'm pretty sure Johnny and others who were fans at the time will tell you that he was losing steam and getting booed often toward the end and that may be true in some buildings against certain opponents - but it really doesn't translate to tape. On top of that you've got people like my Uncle who was also watching and going to shows during that era, who feels like Backlund was always over and never lost much of his luster. In any case Backlund's record as an ace is very strong and I don't think that can be disputed - and I say this as someone who used to be viscerally anti-Backlund in terms of trotting out all the standard excuses (the title drew on it's own, the heels drew, the undercard support propped him up longer than he would have gone on his own, other bullshit, et.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackToBionic Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 This is interesting to me because for the first time ever I'm watching old WWWF. I started in 1975 and am on 1980. Dusty was over way more than I ever figured he could have been up north, but I agree with jdw, he couldn't have done it for as long as Backlund did and I agree that there's no one (that I've seen) that could've. I mean, technically, Backlund didn't succeed at it either. It was just a serviceable run as champion. The crazy part is how long they let it go on. They coulda abandoned ship around late 79 - 80 because there were plenty of heels that could've held it for a bit to give it to someone mentioned like DiBiase (who is popping up on some of the stuff I'm watching now in 80 and looks absolutely fantastic) or Steamboat (also showing up albeit as a tag team guy). Their patience worked out for them though because when they did get it to a intermediary champion it was to get the belt on the person that would change their fortunes so I guess there wouldn't be too much "what ifs" from the McMahon's financial perspective. Butterfly effect etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I wish I could find that Garea interview. I think it was in the WWF magazine. It was really great, a total career retrospective, non kayfabe deal. The reason I believe that he might have been the choice, even if just for a moment, is based on this interview. It's not a "they fucked me out of it" or a "I got hurt and they went with Bob" bitter thing. It was him saying that at the time he had gone single from being in a team with Dean Ho I think and he was contacted that Vince Sr. was considering him, but it didn't happen. But he continued as a tag guy again and kept on winning the tag belts. The interview sticks out in my mind because when I was a kid Tony Garea was my fucking hero, and reading this made me go, "Wow, that's crazy." Now that I think of it, in the same interview he may have mentioned that Putski was considered as well. I remember digging Backlund when I was a kid. The Philly crowds started shitting on him at the Spectrum but I wasn't actually going to shows back then and wasn't aware of that until later. The deal was that before Hogan showed up we had all become Snuka fans. He was the fucking man, and Backlund sorta took a back seat even though he was the Champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 How about Don Muraco? He looked like Brisco, could talk, could work (I haven't seen all that much of him before his terrible WWF bulked up days but I was recently reading Dave's Roy Shire bio and he was rated high) and I believe had some sort of amateur background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Backlund was Missouri heavyweight champ for like 8 months getting multiple wins over Race but the one thing he had against him in that run was his other opponents were Lord Alfred Hayes, Roger Kirby, Killer Karl Krupp which at the time those guys were midcard guys. Still though the Missouri title was a big deal even in 1976. I think in wrestling lore more than anything else. Was it a big deal the next year when Dick the Bruiser and Dick Murdoch traded it back and forth? Or the main belt for a small territory that happened to be run by the President of the NWA? It was a big deal because it was Sam's title and he pushed it as the #2 title in the world. Now was it a big deal everywhere else in the public's eyes absolutely not but with the power of St. Louis it was a big deal with the promoters because if Sam was high on you then you were just about a made man in most places. For what it's worth, the Apter mags had a article in the late 80's reminiscing about how the Missouri title was a "stepping stone" to the NWA World Strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Garea was too old for what they wanted as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Muraco's problem was that he took sometimes up to 6 months a year to stay in Hawaii. VJM wasn't going for that. Snuka was the worst thing to happen to Backlund because he totally eclipsed him in popularity. Backlund was over for sure but Snuka was another level. It was kinda like Hogan/Warrior in a way. Backlund's best town was NYC and JS is right if you watch the Spectrum shows you see Backlund's popularity visibly wane in 83-84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 What were either Adrian Adonis or Paul Orndorff doing in 1977? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Orndorff was just starting up working Memphis Adonis then working as Keith Franks was one of the top heels for Mike LeBell in Los Angeles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 For what it's worth, the Apter mags had a article in the late 80's reminiscing about how the Missouri title was a "stepping stone" to the NWA World Strap. Right. But as far as I can tell that's just not true. Only Terry Funk made that leap, and it was years later. More often than not it was a belt a former NWA champ held after their run was over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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