JerryvonKramer Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 The business has changed irrevocably since the territory days. Newcomers would face routine beatings from the likes of Hiro Matsuda, and once they were "in" face strictly split locker rooms, near-paranoid levels of protecting the business, and a life constantly on the move from one territory to the next. This system has given way to training schools and annual salaries, while the travel schedule remains intense. So three questions: 1. Have the ingredients for "what it takes to make it" changed at all between then and now? 2. Who from the current generation of wrestlers (any promotion) would definitely have made it in the 1980s? 3. Same question, but let's say in the Attitude era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 The business has changed irrevocably since the territory days. Newcomers would face routine beatings from the likes of Hiro Matsuda, and once they were "in" face strictly split locker rooms, near-paranoid levels of protecting the business, and a life constantly on the move from one territory to the next. This system has given way to training schools and annual salaries, while the travel schedule remains intense. So three questions: 1. Have the ingredients for "what it takes to make it" changed at all between then and now? 2. Who from the current generation of wrestlers (any promotion) would definitely have made it in the 1980s? 3. Same question, but let's say in the Attitude era. 1. Not really, I don't think. Typically you still have to possess something of a high level of skill in some area, and preferably multiple areas. In-ring talent, getting a character over, knowing how to manipulate crowd reactions, etc, all are just as important today as it was back then. What HAS changed is HOW those qualities are developed, judged and nurtured. The whole system is different now too, obviously. Nobody really gets to work six month stints in a big territory before moving on to the next, learning how to maximize their skills through something of a trial and error process. Now? Swim or sink in the WWE. 2. This is a difficult question, in that the degree of success is underdefined in the question. "Make it" in what way? Some people interpret it as being a top of card talent, some as staying power as a worker, others as the ability to get booked anywhere for so long. Using the criteria I have in my mind, I have to venture to guess more people today would probably experience more success, especially if given the advantages of the territory system. No reason a guy like The Miz, who is an average worker today, couldn't learn to hone his craft and become a better overall performer, working Memphis or Mid-South or Portland or whatever. With how the sports landscape changed due to MMA and other sports, more and more guys coming in professional wrestling are legitimate fans of it. You'd imagine these guys would have the dedication to making it work. Anyways, to boil down the answer, I'd guess probably 40-50% of today's workers would make it back then. Not a bad ratio, I think. At least better than the other way around (yes I think less workers from the older eras would translate well to today's product). 3. Now this is an easier question. Obviously Attitude Era was all about compelling characters. Guys that would create interesting dynamics with their opponents and the fans as far as storytelling goes. Therefore we are looking at guys today who are compelling characters and have proven to be versatile. This narrows the list down of today's workers big-time, and you're left with either the older vets who WERE around in the Attitude Era, or the super workers like Punk or Danielson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 1. less emphasis on size and/or the gassed up look, but other than that not really IMO 2. the no brainers are the 2nd, 3rd gen guys. Orton, Del Rio, Dibiase, Hennig, Rhodes, Roman Reigns etc. The talented big guys like Show, Henry and Kane. Cena. Jack Swagger. 3. Comedy guys like Otunga, Santino and Brodus would have fit right in in that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 You say there's less emphasis on a "gassed up look", but it strikes me that you don't get guys who look like Bobby Eaton, Tommy Rich, Ted DiBiase or Terry Taylor any more (I'd describe these as "wrestler's physiques", Jericho is the closest), let alone your Harley Races and Dick Murdochs. Everyone has very well toned bodies now. So arguably look is more important than it was. Would WWE put a guy who looks like Bobby Eaton on TV now? 2. This is a difficult question, in that the degree of success is underdefined in the question. "Make it" in what way? Some people interpret it as being a top of card talent, some as staying power as a worker, others as the ability to get booked anywhere for so long. Using the criteria I have in my mind, I have to venture to guess more people today would probably experience more success, especially if given the advantages of the territory system. No reason a guy like The Miz, who is an average worker today, couldn't learn to hone his craft and become a better overall performer, working Memphis or Mid-South or Portland or whatever. With how the sports landscape changed due to MMA and other sports, more and more guys coming in professional wrestling are legitimate fans of it. You'd imagine these guys would have the dedication to making it work. Anyways, to boil down the answer, I'd guess probably 40-50% of today's workers would make it back then. Not a bad ratio, I think. At least better than the other way around (yes I think less workers from the older eras would translate well to today's product). "Making it" is defined simply as "becoming a wrestler and making a decent living". The reason I asked the question is this: Do you think a guy like The Miz would have even been allowed to become a wrestler in the first place? Would this guy have ever made it through Stu's dungeon? Would any of the oldtimers have let him through the door? And would he have been able to see through all the abuse once he was through that door? Seems to me that there's a real disconnect between the old generation of wrestlers and the current generation. The older guys all got through by paying their dues after being allowed entry into what was essentially an old-boy's network. You had to have a certain type of personality and determined staying power even to get through the door, or you had to have an personal or family connection. The guys now seem a lot more ... I dunno, like normal people. I'm not saying The Miz is "just a normal guy", I'm saying that I wonder if he has the sort of personality that would have seen him break into the old-boy's network back in the day. The recruitment and selection process is very very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 They would have found a way to use Miz to make money in Memphis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Miz probably didn't go through anything like being stretched by Stu Hart or Jack Brisco, but he did experience plenty of hazing when he first entered the business. Besides, there's always been a place in wrestling for guys who look good and can talk. But as was mentioned in the fall from grace thread, he probably would have worked better as a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 What is "hazing"? Not familar with that term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Hazing is ritualized abuse or humiliation done as an initiation rite. I believe the closest equivalent in British English is fagging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 On another topic, how do we feel about John Cena in other eras? In terms of not just making it, but being successful. I seem to have this argument every so often, including the other day, and I'm probably too close to it so I wonder what other people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 John Cena would be a star in any era you put him in. He seems like a big enough politician to survive a toxic political climate, he has the look and he can wrestle. He could have been a top drawing face or a cocky heel coming into a territory to challenge the top babyface. Hell, Kerry Von Erich in 1983 vs. John Cena 2007 feels like a dream match. He works really well with smaller wrestlers (Punk, DB) so I could see him facing Lawler at his peak or even the New Japan roster. We've seen him have really good matches with monsters so I could see Cena working a great match with early 80s Andre or a bloody match with One Man Gang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Miz would have done just fine "back then". Come on, in an era where they had ugly motherfuckers like Tommy Rich and Robert Gibson as "dreamboats" for the ladies a guy with Miz's looks would be a total blowjob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 John Cena would be a star in any era you put him in. He seems like a big enough politician to survive a toxic political climate, he has the look and he can wrestle. He could have been a top drawing face or a cocky heel coming into a territory to challenge the top babyface. Hell, Kerry Von Erich in 1983 vs. John Cena 2007 feels like a dream match. He works really well with smaller wrestlers (Punk, DB) so I could see him facing Lawler at his peak or even the New Japan roster. We've seen him have really good matches with monsters so I could see Cena working a great match with early 80s Andre or a bloody match with One Man Gang. That is assuming the fans aren't confounded by Cena's jorts gimmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostka Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Chris Masters could've been a star babyface or heel anywhere. Babyface Masters in 1986 JCP? Yes please. He would've made for an outstanding Flair opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Watching Hansen vs. Slaughter with AWA Party Podcast on and Will just said "neither one of these guys would get a break today" "What do you think the trainers would be telling Slaughter today?" That's the sort of thing I had in mind for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Do we have to go back to Slaughter's Super Destroyer days for this to make sense? Do we have any footage of him being Beautiful Bob Remus or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 I was thinking about guys who aren't high up on the card (right now) that would be in that timeframe. A guy like Antonio Cesaro could be Swiss Billy Robinson in a heartbeat. Bray Wyatt would have carved up Florida with Kevin Sullivan. I could see a Big E. Langston in a similar spot he's used now and have it be even more effective in the NWA or Memphis. Damien Sandow in the Bible Belt would be a license to print money as an aristocrat from New York or California (where he's being billed from now). In fact, NXT being run basically like a territory makes it seem like there's a lot of guys who would at least get a shot in the 80s, as they're really pushing some interesting gimmicks rooted in what was going on in the 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Miz would have done just fine "back then". Come on, in an era where they had ugly motherfuckers like Tommy Rich and Robert Gibson as "dreamboats" for the ladies a guy with Miz's looks would be a total blowjob. Don't forget Robert Gibson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Daniel Bryan could totally be a Mike Graham in Florida sort of guy or a Denny Brown in Crockett sort. I think he could be okay in the Danny Davis role in Memphis (which is sort of like the Bill Dundee role but with smaller crowds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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