Marty Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 The Million Dollar Man played fast and loose with the contract rules. Did Virgil have an official manager's license? Did he ever formally sell Andre's contract back to Heenan? What was the paperwork involved in his purchase of Saphire? In hindsight, DiBiase may have had some great lawyers as far as clientele relations go, but less so regarding possessions. Either he or his people completely overlooked the fine print that stated "this possession can be legally obtained without cost in a manner that which otherwise would be illegal" on the title deed upon creation of the Million Dollar Championship. I wonder if the Money In The Bank contracts also have the same fine print? It would answer JBL's question: "Why isn't Cody in jail???" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'm pretty sure that there's no way you can get a legally binding contract that allows child custody to be determined via ladder match. Where was child services in all of that? I have some friends who are on an adoption waiting list that I recently loaned a ladder so they could do some high ceiling painting in their living room. I was planning on asking for the ladder back this weekend, but I'm wondering if I should just wait so they're prepared for that quick phone call. Although maybe the state is responsible for providing the ladder in cases like this. I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Well the godfather of this trope is Grand Wizard selling Pat Patterson's contract to Lou Albano in December 1979 with Patterson saying he wouldn't work for that fat slob and turned babyface. Patterson specifically noted that they had notarized addendum that contained a weight-based escape claim. (However, future legal scholars have noted that since the language referenced "weight" and not "mass", thus Albano could have fought in Moon Court to retain Pat.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'm pretty sure that there's no way you can get a legally binding contract that allows child custody to be determined via ladder match. Where was child services in all of that? At ringside with Dominic? Or was that a different person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I know Hogan vs Vince didn't have any stipulations, but come on ... knocking a guy unconscious and signing the name in blood would surely qualify as signing under duress, right? There were enough witnesses to the signing to corroborate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Well the godfather of this trope is Grand Wizard selling Pat Patterson's contract to Lou Albano in December 1979 with Patterson saying he wouldn't work for that fat slob and turned babyface. Patterson specifically noted that they had notarized addendum that contained a weight-based escape claim. (However, future legal scholars have noted that since the language referenced "weight" and not "mass", thus Albano could have fought in Moon Court to retain Pat.) Surely that would have been a bad idea. I've heard Pat does most of his fighting in moon courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 How did the Raven's Rules aspect of his WCW contract work? Wouldn't the other party have to agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I know Hogan vs Vince didn't have any stipulations, but come on ... knocking a guy unconscious and signing the name in blood would surely qualify as signing under duress, right? There were enough witnesses to the signing to corroborate that. Hey...how do we not know that the only reason this happened was because Vince's pen ran out of ink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 * Managers "purchasing the contracts" of wrestlers in old territories frequently. So did that mean every wrestler had a contract? Who owned the contract for wrestlers that didn't have managers? The promotion? Does that mean that wrestlers who are managed work for the manager and not the promotion? Is the manager then employed by the promotion with the wrestlers as third parties? Are all wrestler contracts for sale to evil managers if that's the case? I assumed it was that the Wrestler had signed a contract agreeing to have their business interests managed by a certain entity, i.e. "Mr. Fuji Incorporated". In exchange for some of the purse, the manager agrees to protect that wrestler's general interests (including, but not limited to, transportion & lodging needs, match promotion, promotional materials including interview supplementation, "external bias nullification" - i.e. ensuring opponents will not try to use underhanded tactics to secure victories and general publicity). However, that manager could then sell their controlling interests in that entity to another manager organization, and hence " Mr. Fuji Incorporated" was now controlled by Sensational Sherri. After giving this some thought, I'm not sure it's accurate. If a manager works for a wrestler, how can a manager fire a wrestler? We have seen this happen many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Going back to DiBiase: How could he could he legally trade Royal Rumble numbers with one of Slick's boys? Did either Jack Tunney or someone overseeing the administrative operations of the Royal Rumble rule this to be perfectly within the rules? Do trades like this come with an approval process from the powers that be, in similar fashion to trades in sports leagues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 * Managers "purchasing the contracts" of wrestlers in old territories frequently. So did that mean every wrestler had a contract? Who owned the contract for wrestlers that didn't have managers? The promotion? Does that mean that wrestlers who are managed work for the manager and not the promotion? Is the manager then employed by the promotion with the wrestlers as third parties? Are all wrestler contracts for sale to evil managers if that's the case? I assumed it was that the Wrestler had signed a contract agreeing to have their business interests managed by a certain entity, i.e. "Mr. Fuji Incorporated". In exchange for some of the purse, the manager agrees to protect that wrestler's general interests (including, but not limited to, transportion & lodging needs, match promotion, promotional materials including interview supplementation, "external bias nullification" - i.e. ensuring opponents will not try to use underhanded tactics to secure victories and general publicity). However, that manager could then sell their controlling interests in that entity to another manager organization, and hence " Mr. Fuji Incorporated" was now controlled by Sensational Sherri. After giving this some thought, I'm not sure it's accurate. If a manager works for a wrestler, how can a manager fire a wrestler? We have seen this happen many times. Furthermore, when a manager turns on his client, shouldn't he be held liable for breach of contract? At the very least, you'd think that'd be grounds for having your managerial license suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I'm pretty sure that there's no way you can get a legally binding contract that allows child custody to be determined via ladder match. Where was child services in all of that?At ringside with Dominic? Or was that a different person? I meant figuratively, not literally! I have some friends who are on an adoption waiting list that I recently loaned a ladder so they could do some high ceiling painting in their living room. I was planning on asking for the ladder back this weekend, but I'm wondering if I should just wait so they're prepared for that quick phone call. Although maybe the state is responsible for providing the ladder in cases like this. I'm not sure.Are your friends hoping to adopt a child together, or are they on the list separately? If they're on it together, I don't see why they would be the ones tasked with getting the ladder, unless their prospective opponent(s) would have to get the wrestling ring, book the building, and rig the suspension of the briefcase and contract. And there's no point in letting them keep it for practice, because there's no way to learn how to fall off a 20-foot ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Just who is it that is contracted to hide plunder under the ring, and how much does it pay? Is there a greater purpose to their design, or are they simply fans of mayhem looking to collect some cash? Are the wrestlers aware of workplace safety regulations? Some of those items could be dangerous! Unanswered questions abound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Well then you have situations when managers leave a territory and guys just bounce to the guy who replaced him. Ivan Koloff & Iron Sheik went from Sonny King to Homer O'Dell to Paul Ellering in a matter of a month in Georgia during early 1983. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Ric Flair being the "consortium" that purchased Shane's and Stephanie's shares of the WWF (when they bought WCW and ECW), even though a consortium is techically plural (whether it be individuals, companies, associations, etc.) If anything, the WWF ownership at the time would've been a consortium then (the Vince/Ric partnership). Oh yeah, and Flair lost his half to Vince in a hotshot match. No wonder he's got financial troubles. He should be suing Steve Austin for that one. Flair was to the consortium as Bischoff was to Fusient Media Ventures. "THE CONSORTIUM WAS ME!" was Flair blowing the line, I think."" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Maybe we should also finally resolve once and for all if wrestlers have any influence in who the challengers are for their titles. I'd also like to see a method for how number one contenders are determined. I suspect funny business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Ric Flair being the "consortium" that purchased Shane's and Stephanie's shares of the WWF (when they bought WCW and ECW), even though a consortium is techically plural (whether it be individuals, companies, associations, etc.) If anything, the WWF ownership at the time would've been a consortium then (the Vince/Ric partnership). Oh yeah, and Flair lost his half to Vince in a hotshot match. No wonder he's got financial troubles. He should be suing Steve Austin for that one. Flair was to the consortium as Bischoff was to Fusient Media Ventures. "THE CONSORTIUM WAS ME!" was Flair blowing the line, I think."" I don't think it was meant to be taken litterally. Its like RVD saying his the Whole Fucking Show... in business speak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 This thread is pretty awesome. If anyone makes a kayfabed resume for any manager, you win the Internet. Jim Cornette seems like the best manager on the surface. He was well-financed, had a family-owned and operated enterprise, preferred to have one client, specialized specifically in tag teams and was fiercely loyal and involved in day-to-day operations. He was willing to fight for his clients and against the bigwigs. Yes, he had a big mouth and sometimes his clients ended up in hot water as a result, but they had more success than failure. His only separate venture was doing color commentary and briefly having his own talk show, but by and large, his clients came first. I like this idea. Based on your criteria, Mr. Fuji seems like he made all his mistakes early: - Allowing key assets to go to other managers (Neidhart lost to Hart, Warlord to Slick, Barbarian to Heenan) - Backing the wrong horse (Powers of Pain over Demolition, Orient Express over Powers of Pain) - Allowing himself to be booked into matches in which the titles were on the line (WM5) - Misuse of foreign object (FREQUENT) - Poor timing on reuniting with former charges (see Demolition in 90) - Poor talent acquisition (The Bezerker) This was Fuji gaining experience, making mistakes and learning from them. So in 1992, he pares down and concentrates on just one client: Yokozuna Not only that: - Brings in top help from an expert consultant (Cornette) - Gets Yokozuna bookings against top wrestlers and into title matches - For KOTR after miscuing with his cane for so many years, he OUTSOURCED the task to a paid specialist (the dodgy camera man) - Ensured that Luger never got a pinfall on his client, Summerslam 93 was all about Fuji's tactical planning - Provided lots of rice for his client Fuji learned his lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 How does Crush fit into that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Fuji was poor to the end. He challenged Hogan to a world title match just seconds after Yoko had won the title in a gruelling contest with Bret Hart. Rookie error. And then, the following year, he allowed Yoko to defend the title twice in one night again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 - Fuji didn't really care about Crush, but merely used him as backup for his main charge Yokozuna, someone to keep the likes of Savage at bay. - And finally, I've just remembered this, Fuji's day in the sun as a manager is Royal Rumble 94 in the casket match. That's the one time literally everything comes together for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Fuji was poor to the end. He challenged Hogan to a world title match just seconds after Yoko had won the title in a gruelling contest with Bret Hart. Rookie error. And then, the following year, he allowed Yoko to defend the title twice in one night again. genuine lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1rweeze Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 - Poor talent acquisition (The Bezerker) To be fair to Berzerker, he may have gotten some bad advice (presumably from Fuji) that led to his attempted murder of the Undertaker in the middle of the ring in front of 8,000+ people. You're not doing yourself any favors with Jack Tunney with that sort of behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Bill Alfonso was an underrated good manager. I don't know how he was at contract negotiations, but as a second he was excellent- willing to take a beating to buy his charges some time, and always ready with the plunder. I wonder how Heenan and Perfect's duties were divided during their association with Flair. I assume Heenan handled the business side of things, while Perfect's main function was as a second. I think standard wrestling contracts have changed a lot in the last 15 or so years. Whereas before wrestlers had to sign a contract for each individual contest, now I believe they sign open contracts, giving anyone in an authority position the power to put them in matches at a moment's notice, soemtimes against unknown opposition. Individual match contracts are still required for title matches and certain special stipulation bouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 - Poor talent acquisition (The Bezerker) To be fair to Berzerker, he may have gotten some bad advice (presumably from Fuji) that led to his attempted murder of the Undertaker in the middle of the ring in front of 8,000+ people. You're not doing yourself any favors with Jack Tunney with that sort of behavior. How do you kill what's already dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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