Convoluted contract logic in pro wrestling

[cm funk]

I always like the plunder under the ring to be logical. Hammers, screwdrivers and even a couple of ladders are logical, as they're used by the ring crew when setting up. Folding chairs are logical, as you have chairs for the ringside crew, and it's smart to have some backups. When a guy goes under the ring and comes back with a kendo stick, unless it's set up that this is a hardcore match and the promotion has purposely hidden weapons around, it looks really stupid.

 

As far as the manager discussion, I'm a huge fan of the manager gimmick. Some of my favorite characters have been managers, and some of my favorite angles involve managers. One of my bigger dislikes about modern wrestling is the lack of strong managers, though WWE has gotten a little better about it after completely going away from it for a while. I figure the manager is like hiring a road manager for a band, or a lawyer, like Walter White and Jesse Pinkman hiring Saul Goodman. You pay him a fee or a cut of the profits, and he takes care of problems and handles the day to day stuff you're too busy to do because you're out there kicking ass and partying. He advocates for you with the promotion and takes care of booking you in matches. The idea of having a manager in wrestling is completely logical, if I was a wrestler I would need a good manager. I always loved the "sold this guys contract" "bought the contract" "traded contracts" angles, though I guess when you really think about the legalities of all that it doesn't always make sense, but it was always heels and I always just assumed the guys had been suckered into signing bad contracts.

 

Paul Ellering isn't one of my favorite managers, but he always seemed like one of the most realistic portrayals of a manager to me. He was like Rick Rubin with the Beastie Boys or Peter Grant with Zeppelin, a guy who was essentially just part of the band. It was weird when they came to WWF without him as an on-screen character.

 

As far as convoluted logic goes, trying to make sense of the WWE corporate/power structure is impossible and there's been no consistent logic in that regard. The worst recent example was when HHH was introduced as COO and the board of directors has him take Vince out of power after a "no confidence" vote.......then several months later Vince is back on TV with seemingly all the power he had before and an equal of HHH with no explanation whatsoever. There was also the whole "mystery GM" deal.....which the less said about the better.

 

Vince Russo is still the absolute worst when it comes to that stuff though. There was a point when he was booking TNA where you literally had more than a half dozen people with authority/match making/hire&fire powers and there was no consistency or logic segment to segment, much less week to week

[Kil]

Col. Rob Parker was clearly a highly skilled manager with connections within the WCW front office. He was so good he convinced them to hire a truck driver who had been arrested for assaulting one of their employees. Did this so-called "Blacktop Bully" even have any training as a wrestler? Didn't matter, Col. Parker got him hired straight away after bailing him out of jail. Quite a feat.

[Matt D]

I always saw Managers as the employers not the employees. They were record labels that had artists under contract or even sports teams that fielded players. I'm not sure that makes any sense but it was sort of how it was presented I think. Monsoon always went on about how Heenan was probably taking the majority of money from guys like Barbarian who didn't know better.

[JerryvonKramer]

I always saw Managers as the employers not the employees. They were record labels that had artists under contract or even sports teams that fielded players. I'm not sure that makes any sense but it was sort of how it was presented I think. Monsoon always went on about how Heenan was probably taking the majority of money from guys like Barbarian who didn't know better.

It depends on the manager doesn't it.

 

The Natural Disasters sacked Jimmy Hart when they thought he was concentrating on Money Inc. too much.

 

You seldom get the impression that JJ Dillon is the BOSS of the Four Horsemen.

 

Heenan always plays it like he's possibly taking his charges for a ride, like he's a sly wheeler dealer who'd sell them down the river if a better offer came along. Whenever there was "trouble" in the Heenan Family, he'd do a great job of playing up this subtle dynamic.

 

That undercurrent of distrust is what made Heenan so amazing in WWF.

 

I don't believe it's there when he's managing Bock, at least from what I've seen, he plays it a bit differently. Bock's his man and he'll do everything he must for him.

 

Heenan went into that mode for Flair in 91-2 too.

[Matt D]

With Flair he was a ... what Financial Consultant? Executive Consultant? What the heck was his title there. I forget.

 

And remember, when the Hart Foundation sacked Jimmy Hart they played up that he still owned their contract for a few months. Hell, like you brought up, Heenan tried to sell Hercules to Dibiase as a PERSONAL SLAVE

[Loss]

I think JJ Dillon just let the wrestlers think they were in charge, but he was clearly the guy running the show. He was a great manager and was able to balance four giant egos successfully. None of the shit the Horsemen went through in the 90s would have dared happen on his watch. He ran a tight ship. If that meant turning the Andersons on each other or dumping the guy considered the future of wrestling at that point in time, so be it. No one was blocking the machine. Even at his weakest managerial point when the Horsemen were operating at half strength, he controlled the top two singles titles.

 

Of course, a Japanese organization eventually made him an offer he couldn't refuse and he stepped aside, but that's common in business. He parted ways with Flair and Windham on good terms. Sadly, the Yamazaki Corporation ran the Horsemen into the ground and it was never the same.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think JJ Dillon just let the wrestlers think they were in charge, but he was clearly the guy running the show. He was a great manager and was able to balance four giant egos successfully. None of the shit the Horsemen went through in the 90s would have dared happen on his watch. He ran a tight ship. If that meant turning the Andersons on each other or dumping the guy considered the future of wrestling at that point in time, so be it. No one was blocking the machine. Even at his weakest managerial point when the Horsemen were operating at half strength, he controlled the top two singles titles.

 

Of course, a Japanese organization eventually made him an offer he couldn't refuse and he stepped aside, but that's common in business. He parted ways with Flair and Windham on good terms. Sadly, the Yamazaki Corporation ran the Horsemen into the ground and it was never the same.

But, of course, this is where the Texas-based oil baron Gary Hart spotted his opportunity. Plugging himself into the vacuum left by the Yamazaki Corporation and picking up some of that lucrative Japanese green while opening the door to his own guys (Funk, Slater, Sawyer).

[JNLister]

A wrestling match contract is only valid if, at the top of the first page, it contains the word "CONTRACT" in block capitals of at least 72 points.

[kjh]

Can someone explain the legality of Marlena losing a match that required her to spend 30 days and 30 nights with Brian Pillman?

[Death From Above]

I don't know but I'd like one of those "steal someone's Valet" contracts too.

[ButchReedMark]

How did Bobby Heenan signing over the contract for WCW Pro to Sonny Onoo work? That's some Ronnie P Gossett shit right there.

[rzombie1988]

Everyone in this thread should see the WWF segment from when Randy Savage first started with him being the hottest free agent. They had Savage and a bunch of managers in a room all pleading their case on why he should sign with them. Jimmy Hart went with the direction of not spending a ton of money but saving it. Blassie talked about how Macho can live it up and be rich. It was a really cool segment and instantly put Savage over, plus gave us some cool insight on the world of managers.

 

There is also another really good segment that everyone should see. It happened around 1992/1993 with a behind the scenes look at Jimmy Hart on a Coliseum video. They showed him booking travel plans for his crew, helping them find their gear and keeping the Nasty Boys out of trouble. They should have done more of those segments.

 

I never had a problem with wrestlers getting traded from one manager to another. I always just thought of it as a manager in sports trading one of his players to another team for some funds or another player. Pat Patterson refusing to work for Albano was a really cool angle that I'm glad was brought up.

 

I really liked the comment about everyone in the WWE having open contracts for shows with the GM's setting things up if they don't set something up themselves. They should explain that on TV sometime.

 

I'm really glad Paul E is back and giving us some tastes of having manager's again. He is the best non-wrestler in the world and is definitely up for the GOAT status for managers. I wish we would have more of them though and I do hope he crosses paths with Zeb sometime.

 

I also really want to see a face manager again. They are rare but they could grab a vet, who they already have signed, put him out there and have him talk for his guy along with taking an odd shot or two and maybe even doing a match for an angle.

 

Managers are just great. They can:

- Do any storyline or angle

- Be involved in multiple things at one time

- Be a priceless tool for getting over wrestlers

- Have matches provided their health is okay

- Do commentary!

 

At best, manager's like Jimmy Hart were even the top star's in their territory for a period of time.

[cm funk]

Totally agree. Strong established managers aren't as important now as they were in the territory days when you had to cycle talent in and out and get new people over quickly, and in promotions that didn't necessarily have the best talent to work with, but they can still be a really valuable booking tool. I think a good heel manager is basically a booker's best friend, and the classics like Heenan, Jimmy Hart, Dangerously, Gary Hart, Akbar, the Wisemen etc. are proof of that, where they were so over as heels that you could practically pair anyone with them to leach heat and the manager would do most of the work.

 

Heyman isn't only one of the best managers/non-wrestlers of all-time, he also as a booker understood how to use managers to get people over, and how to get managers over. He got random not incredibly talented people like Judge Jeff Jones, Lou E. Dangerously and Joel Gertner really over with the ECW audience. He used Jim Mitchell really well. He took people like Jack Victory and Jason Knight who weren't objectively good as managers or talkers and got them over as "seconds" who just stooged for heat. He booked valets about as well as anyone ever has. The outside the ring personalities in ECW were one of my favorite things about the promotion.

 

Going back to the Chikara days I thought Larry Sweeney could have been the second coming of Bobby Heenan with his promo skills and ability to work/bump. It didn't play out as well when ROH used him as a manager, but I think he'd already started spiraling out mentally by that point. Really sad what happened with him, a lot of wasted talent, and if he'd had his head screwed on straight he'd probably be in WWE right now managing random midcard heels.

 

Eddie Gilbert is another guy who I would have loved to see get a real run as a manager in WWF or WCW in the 90's if he hadn't passed away. He never would have gotten a real look as a wrestler in either promotion, but as a promo and personality he could have gone places.

 

Pillman could have been an incredible manager in WWE if he hadn't died, because physically he was pretty much done in the ring by the end. That's an all time "what if?" how they would have used Pillman if could have survived....

 

Face managers is something I thought of earlier when this topic started skewing towards discussing managers. It's not an easy role to pull off, and there haven't been a lot of memorable ones in modern wrestling. Paul Ellering who I mentioned before might be the best, but he and the Road Warriors were not typical faces. The face valet can work, but a male face manager isn't an easy gimmick to pull off. I always think of Arnold Skaaland paired with Bob Backlund and how brutal that was. Imagine if they'd stuck Bret Hart with an old-timer as his manager and how bad that would have killed his heat?

[Jimmy Redman]

Jose Lothario?

[JerryvonKramer]

Everyone in this thread should see the WWF segment from when Randy Savage first started with him being the hottest free agent. They had Savage and a bunch of managers in a room all pleading their case on why he should sign with them. Jimmy Hart went with the direction of not spending a ton of money but saving it. Blassie talked about how Macho can live it up and be rich. It was a really cool segment and instantly put Savage over, plus gave us some cool insight on the world of managers.

I've seen this it's pretty awesome. In fact, I think they had a few bidding wars in the 85-9 period.

 

I love it whenever your get the whole rogues gallery together in WWF. Savage's coronation is another time it happens.

[Matt D]

My favorite thing about that segment is seeing Heenan interact with Blassie.

[mookeighana]

= Managers bidding for Savage

= Savage announces Elizabeth (Heenan has an awesome suit)

[goc]

I don't know but I'd like one of those "steal someone's Valet" contracts too.

This needs further examination. Just what does one of those "Valet must spend _X_ amount of time with the winner" contracts entail?

[Loss]

I don't know that I have anything new to add to this, but I really love this thread and wanted to bump it anyway.

 

If wrestlers employ managers, I'm still not sure how managers get to fire wrestlers.

[Matt D]

Are we sure that it's not sometimes more like a temp agency, where the manager hires you, places you into matches, and then takes a share of your winning?

[SteveJRogers]

Okay, I'll add that while they did go through the "Open Challenge" route, I loved the idea that Dean Ambrose was ducking having US Champ title matches for months because "well, there is all this paperwork involved..."

[Loss]

Are we sure that it's not sometimes more like a temp agency, where the manager hires you, places you into matches, and then takes a share of your winning?

 

I get that. I just don't get who employs who. We've seen managers fire wrestlers. We've seen wrestlers fire managers.

[Matt D]

I actually think it's even more complex than that. Bobby Heenan was hired by Andre the Giant and Paul Orndorff. Bobby Heenan hired Brooklyn Brawler. Bobby Heenan bought Hercules' contract from Blassie (I think it was Blassie) and then sold it to Million Dollar Man.

 

What's the deal with Red Rooster? Did he fire heenan or did heenan fire him. I feel like with Heenan you got the "You can't fire me, I quit" speeches a lot blurring the lines.