Grimmas Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 So, hopefully we can get some more voters this week and a little more discussion. There was less matches nominated this week, so it should be easier for everyone to watch everything. Here are the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM3hlS1HCo John Cena vs. Damien Sandow (WWE Raw, 1/13) I can't find a link for the NXT match, sorry. POLL CLOSED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitroFan Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 i had some trouble with the link to tcw in the first post so if anyone else does just click this Americos vs Kincaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I actually really liked the trios, but I voted for Americos v. Kincaid. Everyone knows I am not exactly a fan of modern junior heavyweight wrestling. Jason Kincaid is a guy who I think has an abysmal look and has annoyed me to all hell at times. Americos looks like a cross between TWA era American Dragon and Art Barr. On paper it was a match that seemed likely be have some fun spots, but not good build, not a lot of rhyme or reason, and not a ton to make it stand out. Instead I thought it really built on some of the stuff they had done earlier in the year (and to be fair they did have one pretty good match a month or two before), and the result was about the best PWG style match I saw from 2013.* Yeah that is kind of damning this with feint praise because I am not a huge fan of that style, but it was still impressive, all the big spots looked good and/or felt like big moments, the near falls were well worked and not gratuitous, the match had a heat section, some real flavor to it, a rare manager interference spot that actually added to the match and a brutal and decisive finish. I had to vote for it, if for no other reason than the fact that it was the most shockingly good match I"ve seen in a while. Sorry Casas, you will be back on top soon. *This was taped on 11/16, a show for TCW that was actually really loaded, as almost everything that made tv from that show was at least good, and a couple of the matches were very good/great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Minor suggestion. How about in initial post that you put a date/time when voting will be closed? I do like this concept though and providing the links on the couple matches to check out. For someone like me I need to be pointed in the direction of stuff to watch. Just watched Cena/Sandow and was a perfectly fine TV match with involving a top guy versus a middle guy. I enjoy watching Cena hit new moves in his arsenal like the half nelson into a neck breaker and the tornado DDT. Also prefer Cena matches when the are in the 10 minute range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Minor suggestion. How about in initial post that you put a date/time when voting will be closed? I will try, but the poll closes essentially when I wake up on that Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Cena v. Sandow was surprisingly good. Not the biggest Cena fan, but that match had a lot of good things stuffed into what seemed like less than 8 minutes of televised ring time. As much as I don't care for the current WWE style, I really like how this match was worked. Cena putting Sandow over like he did was pretty cool. The TCW juniors match was the first I've seen of that style. Seems like Japanese juniors mixed with some All Japan style head drops in an American counter-culture atmosphere. The match itself had it's interesting points and was definitely worth seeing. Americos needs to work on his elbows, that weird, looping windup is too damn goofy for me. A few spots actually looked like they came out more dangerous than they were supposed to. Fun match, but can't say I want to see a lot of that style. Had to go with the trios. Current lucha looks quite a bit different than circa 2000 lucha. The Puma/Tiger double teaming was not bad, but I have this feeling it would wear on me (a la CRAZY MAX in Toryumon if you watched multiple matches in too small a time frame). Casas & crew were fun after the second caida. The last fall was sweet with the double dives and the awesome (and completely sensible given who it was) finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I am going to have to go with the TCW match this week. Although, I enjoyed everything else. Kinkaid and Americos was the perfect example of an indie match. It was also a really well told story and had lots of fun spots. That DDT move onto the steps on the apron was insane, followed by a swanton to the floor was one of the craziest sequences I've seen in a while. What I really liked about it was that, yes, it is an indie match and they will be kicking out of a punch of stuff. However they were kicking out of airplane spins and moves that could finish, but weren't death. This wasn't a match where they were kicking out of top rope brainbusters and other sillyness. I think a lot of indie guys could learn a lot from this match. Awesome stuff and it has my vote. I really need to track down more with these two guys too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I went with Cena versus Sandow as was match I enjoyed most of the three that I watched (didn't see NXT selection). Kinkaid/Americos was the first Indy match I've seen in a few years. Well it was not terrible. I did cringe when the play by play guy was talking about one of Kinkaid's multiple finishers when he conected on one. Like I was expecting the rest of the match to be multiper finishers. Yep, they were throwing a lot of moves at each other. Some of the earlier moves did not seem right as if they timing was off. They got better as went on though. I watched the full thing with my full focuse on it so I give them that as an accomplishment. Casas looks great for his age. For the Lucha match I found myself paying less attention except for when Casas was in there. Want to see more of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I cannot believe people really thought that highly of Cena v. Sandow. I actually thought it was pretty "eh" though the crowd was very hot for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Casas looks great for his age. For the Lucha match I found myself paying less attention except for when Casas was in there. Want to see more of him. Yes, yes you do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 Everybody should be aware that I will be closing this poll early Friday, so get your votes in tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Finished the TCW Jr. match and it was way better than I expected. Kincaid is someone I "discovered" in 2013 and he wasn't always great but damn if that beard didn't keep me watching. Dylan's thoughts are probably better to read than anything I could say about it haha. But yeah, that FINISH! Vote goes to the Panther vs Casas trios match. Maybe in the minority but enjoyed it even more than the first. Can't wait to see how good Panther's kids eventually become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I can't wait til the Blue Panther v. Casas singles match. I know that won't be on TV, but once it makes it's way to some kind of comp I'll be finding a seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Son a bitch....that Americos vs. Kinkaid match freezes at 15:30, right near the end I think..I wnna see the end Really enjoyed what I saw...it grew on me as it went along. Nothing special, but the best of these choices I'd say.. Glad to see this thread.....forces me to watch some new stuff to get my wrestling blood going again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ok there is a tie and I am going to close this in an hour or two, somebody break it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know if this is an appropriate tiebreaker mechanism, but my number two vote would be the Casas v. Panther trio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't know if this is an appropriate tiebreaker mechanism, but my number two vote would be the Casas v. Panther trio That would be my number two as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 In a come from behind 7-5 victory, the Negro Casas & Puma & Tiger vs. Black Panther & Blue Panther & Cachorro (CMLL on CadenTres, 1/18) is the match of the week. Thanks for the discussion this week. I am glad to see people are watching the matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 BOOO...but that is just me, as I just dont "get" lucha...I dont know why, but just not my cup of tea...I cant buy into the matches.. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 We all have styles we don't get/care for. For me, I just try to mix those matches in with stuff I'll know I like if it comes down to watching them. And I try to see what the style is going for (as well as if the workers are accomplishing that). Doesn't always work. Hell, it only really works if I watch some stuff I know I am going to like beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 BOOO...but that is just me, as I just dont "get" lucha...I dont know why, but just not my cup of tea...I cant buy into the matches.. What am I missing? What don't you like about it? I thought Sandow and Cena was borderline bad, so I'm glad it didn't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 BOOO...but that is just me, as I just dont "get" lucha...I dont know why, but just not my cup of tea...I cant buy into the matches.. What am I missing? I can understand it is not your cup of tea, but how does that translate to a bad decision? Lucha is really not that different than any other wrestling. There is some different rules with tagging and how a fall ends in trios, but outside of that it's wrestling. It can be mat work and dives or bloody brawling, depending on the situation. What is it that you don't like about it? You said you don't know why, but try watching a match and point out what you don't like. I would love to hear it and maybe lucha is something you will never like or maybe it is something you will grow to love. Watch some, write some thoughts and let's see what it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I should have been clearer...its hte multi-man matches that I dont like...the singles stuff I am starting to enjoy more, but even that isnt something I really like yet. I will preface this saying that I dont understand what is going on fully, and I have some questions that I will ask at the end... But for the multi mans....just seems like a bunch of guys running aroudn doing acrobatics with each other ending in some move, repeat. Not a lot of believability to me. I easily moved into Puro in the last 18 months after never seeing it before, but I just cant get into Lucha yet, but want to be sold on it as I hear soo much good talk about it. The 80's set I am starting on but watching the singles matches first due to my feelings about the multi-mans. I havent seen a ton so I dont want to make this an "all around" statement, but if the 6 man here was voted the best, then it must be at least good and I dont understand why. As for the questions..OK, just a few for now... 1. Its 2/3 falls, cool. What is going on in between falls? Why are they allowed to beat on each other and fight in between while the ref just lets it go? 2. In next week's (this week's now) match between Casas / Panther..Panther gets jumped and beat down and is up in 5 seconds..and that happens a lot..why no serious selling? Also, another question..what's up with all the women? Dont get me wrong, eye candy is fantastic, but the lucha stuff has a high volume of it...what is the cultural part there? SELL ME DYLAN and GRIMMAS!!! I will gladly admit I dont ahve a large swath of stuff to call from seeing, so I wont make "I hate it all" generalizations with little viewing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 For one, in tag matches, whenever somebody ends up leaving the ring, another member of their team is "automatically" tagged in. So there doesn't have to be a tag for the legal man to change (and they are pretty lenient about double/triple teams). Also, each team has a captain, if you pin/submit the captain, you win the fall. If you pin/submit the other two in a trios, you win the fall. Lucha spots usually have a lot of cooperation. It's something you have to get used to or just not watch lucha really. The in between falls stuff is supposed to be recovery time, but the bad guys in lucha, much like the bad guys everywhere, cheat. Since it's not technically time that counts, I doubt the ref can do much besides yell at the rudos for their prickishness or physically pull them off. Lucha selling can be odd. Hell, everything about lucha has a chance of being just a little strange. They have dance spots where the heel is confused by the face dancing, sometimes multiple heels at once. Every style has idiosyncrasies that you have to get used to or get over or just not like watching the style. Try to keep in mind that lucha striking is (usually) very not stiff and in fact often stops short of hitting. There are lots of roll-ups and weird submissions it would be hard to do to somebody actively trying to stop you from doing it. But if you can suspend disbelief, the really good luchadores are a joy to watch. If you want to see more hard-hitting lucha, find a mask vs. mask/hair vs. hair/mask vs. hair match. Those usually become bloody brawls. The women are just a bonus, man. They are essentially like UFC ring girls who escort the wrestlers to the ring in addition to holding up cards. Find some Casas vs. Santo (the mask vs. hair match is awesome), or any work by either, some older Blue Panther, and if you want to see the goofier yet badass side of things Felino is good. Dr. Wagner, Jr. is an awesome ass-kicker rudo (heel) who can do comedy and make the tecnicos (faces) look awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Thanks, that helps out a ton... Believe me, I aint knocking the women, they are fine (double meaning..ha ha)..and the blonde that is in between the falls of Casas - Panther...damn, she's hot as hell.. Anyway, way off topic...I appreciate the info there, will help me out a lot as I continue to watch and see what its like... Who are the main guys? Is CMLL the only big promotion left? Anything else I need to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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