mookeighana Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/02/12/wrestlenomics-radio-kayfabermetrics/ mp3: http://traffic.libsyn.com/voicesofwrestling/001.mp3 Host Chris Harrington (@mookieghana) is joined by Matthew Timmons of Kayfabermetrics for 90 minutes of discussion on the art and artifice of creating pro-wrestling statistics. We cover inspirations, dataset challenges, inventing custom metrics, key learnings, great project names, overcoming hurdles and much more. Matthew explains his novel approach for looking at velocity going into a PPV, what it means to be pushed (or buried) based on match length, how to rate opponents strength and going far beyond the dull win-loss metrics that dont really illustrate the full story. Also, we look at the weirdest keywords to gain readers, what tools we use, the mistakes that keep us up at night, the lonely life of making arguments using numbers and future goals. * You can see Matthew's work at www.kayfabermetrics.com (@kayfabermetrics) and Juice Make Sugar. * Mookie's work is up on his website is at indeedwrestling.com and indeedwrestling.blogspot.com (@mookieghana). It's my return to podcasting after a long, long break. I thought it would be fun to talk about wrestling statistics with other people who are also working on similar projects. Hopefully it's something that will entertain and enlighten listeners. The audio quality was so-so (my fault) but Rich at Voices of Wrestling did a wonderful job cleaning up my mess and turning this into something presentable. Push Index Number (which we discuss in depth) is at: http://www.kayfabermetrics.com/835-2/ Honestly, I don't know whether it will be interesting to anyone else, but talking with Timmons was both therapeutic (like we say on the podcast, you can feel like you spend a lot of time in a vacuum) and educational (for me). I had seen the Kayfabermetrics Push Index Number (great name) before but I honestly didn't understand it so I really appreciate that he took the time to walk through what it all meant, and what was his basis of thinking while crafting some custom wrestling metrics. If nothing else, I hope others listen and can provide him with feedback on how to improve, use, abuse what he's done. I know I came out of the conversation with some ideas and anxious to apply the methods to some of the datasets that I've already assembled! In the much greater context, my hope is that if I start these conversations with other people who are working on wrestling stats, perhaps we'll be able to figure out a way to come together and collaborate, or at the very least interact more, on some forum or place of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I am really looking forward to listening to this. I really enjoy your work, though I could never do it myself for a variety of reasons. At one point I was toying with the idea of trying to figure out certain "sabr"ish formulas by working with smaller companies (ECW and SMW particularly) and it just seemed completely impossible. Of course it doesn't help that I suck at math and have no patience. In the end I think the sort of work you do is a good compliment to the sort of work that other research hounds who aren't focused on stats do. On their own I think both camps have clear limitations, but taken together there are a lot of things we can learn about wrestling history. So yeah. Looking forward to listening to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx227 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've only listened to a few minutes but thus far it's been great. These are two great minds in the wrestling world so having them talk is like a dream come true. Can't wait to listen to the full thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Really looking forward to this and think the sabr market is just now scratching the surface in regards to wrestling data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yay!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 This was a good listen. I actually think you did a good job keeping it from being too inside baseball by talking in detail about motivations and more specifically the methodology behind each metric that was discussed. I also liked the brief discussions on what sort of data to use, how to apply it, et. One of the problems I've run into in my own research is that when I do try and run statistical analysis - which is very elementary by the standards of what you guys are doing - I find myself struggling with what to include and/or throw out, or if I don't include X is there a way to adjust it with Y. This came up to some degree with Patera and Blacwell related stuff, but also when I was comparing 1993 WCW to 1986 AWA. In that case I couldn't figure out how to adjust for the fact that WCW ran way more shows for example. Maybe a focus on only major market data would have yielded better results? I don't know the answer, but those sort of questions interest me, and I'm glad you are doing the show(s...I hope more are coming) to compliment your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 In relation to what Dylan is saying, Chris should do a Math N Wrestling Q&A podcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm actually going back to school right now for an analytics masters degree, so this is right up my alley, Chris. Really interested in seeing what comes out of this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm hoping to follow this episode up with a solo podcast. I appreciate the feedback. I hope to get some idea of what would make a good topic to discuss or explore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I wrote a few pieces this past week: 2/25/2014 WhatCulture: WWE: 8 Modern PPVs That Performed Miserably2/20/2014 WhatCulture: 10 Controversies of the WWE Network 2/18/2014 WhatCulture: WWE Raw: 16 Biggest Raw Ratings Movers / Indeedwrestling: WWE Raw Ratings Movers Individual Graphs2/25/2014 Voices of Wrestling: WWE Network Launch Day Estimation / Indeedwrestling: WWE Network Launch Day Estimation[2/23/2014 F4W/WO: 2013 WWE Financials Examined Wrestlenomics-style2/24/2014 Voices of Wrestling: WWE 2013 & PPV Breakdown[2/27/2014 WhatCulture: WWE Network Launch: All your Key Questions Answered 2/28/2014 Whatculture: 20 Most Prolific PPV Wrestlers Of All Time (WCW/WWF) 3/03/2014 F4W/WO: WWE Network 7 Days Later 3/05/2014 Whatculture: 14 WWE Network Risks That WWE Worries About Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 This past weekend, I talked with Alex Goff for 45 minutes on the OWW (www.onlineworldofwrestling.com) podcast. The mp3 is up at https://www.clickwrestle.com/sites/default/files/mp3s/oww_radio_215_Chris%20Harrington.mp3 I sound like I'm underwater, but we had a pretty good chat about the WWE Network, the future of streaming media and other tidbits. https://www.clickwrestle.com/content/podcast-episode/oww-radio-christopher-harrington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Episode Two of #wrestlenomics radio is done. This was a spur-of-the-moment live call-in show where I talked about WWE Network, WWE Financials, WWE TV Negotations, ideas for possible WWE suitors, ways to keep the WWE stock strong, my interaction with investment banks/hedge funds asking about WWE and lots more. It was like a sprint so I talked and talked and talked and had David Parker on and talked and talked and then hung up. Hopefully, there's some good content in there and it's not so frantic that it's unlistenable. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/indeedwrestling/2014/03/15/the-beginning-of-something-special link to latest articles at http://www.tinyurl.com/wrestlenomics http://www.blogtalkradio.com/indeedwrestling/2014/03/15/the-beginning-of-something-special.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsault Marvin Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Nice podcast, Mookieghana. I enjoyed the discussion about future price increases. It will be interesting to see how much and how fast they eventually try to raise the price. At the time, I thought the increase in Netflix's price seemed to be harsh. I didn't end up cancelling it, so it must have not been too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I only think WWE can justify raising its price if they feel the market for cable subscriptions subsides. Right now, a lot of people are becoming disenchanted with cable as a whole and don't mind going to OTT services like the WWE can offer, but only if the price is worth getting out of the cable subscription. I don't expect them to raise the price for quite a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I only think WWE can justify raising its price if they feel the market for cable subscriptions subsides. Right now, a lot of people are becoming disenchanted with cable as a whole and don't mind going to OTT services like the WWE can offer, but only if the price is worth getting out of the cable subscription. I don't expect them to raise the price for quite a long time. I do like the idea of quietly pulling Wrestlemania off the Network and back to PPV by next year. It basically generates an increase in overall revenue without changing the monthly price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't feel like there's any way to do that quietly. They've bet everything on the network, and I don't think there's any going back. You can't condition people to something being free then change the rules and expect everyone to accept it no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Great show went two hours: Wow. TWO HOURS of #Wrestlenomics radio including 5 callers (thanks Ken Hesser, Joe Gagne, Pete Thornton, David Parker and Ryan Clingman) from all around the civilized world (and New Jersey). We talked WWE Rookie analysis, Worst Feuds, TV Negotiations, John Cena's LIES~! and Villano payroll. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/indeedwrestling/2014/03/22/rookies-mookies-and-wookies Hope to do it again next week! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 This week we'll have Bix join the show. We'll talk Discrimination Lawsuits, Ultimate Warrior Shenanigans, St. Louis payoffs, WCW Payroll and more.It'll be Saturday (3/29) at 1 PM EST/Noon Central for at least one hour (hopefully two if people are calling in and we still have stuff to talk about!)I think we can have multiple callers via BlogTalkRadio, so we'll be able to take some callers too. Looking forward to the show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingears Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I enjoyed this show a great deal, particularly the rookie discussion. I wonder if WWE reducing its number of annual releases has contributed to there being fewer call-ups. I'm not really up to speed on WWE anymore, but every time I tune in it seems like I see somebody that I'm amazed they still have kicking around. I'm looking very much forward to the WCW discussion and future installments as the television rights story continues to develop. Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I definitely would agree that WWE seems to be releasing less guys. Think about guys like Big Zeke or Evan Bourne (or JTG) that are still hanging around despite being off TV for ages. I haven't run the numbers to confirm, but that's certainly my impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 We'll also be talking about the SummerSlam 1991 Payroll numbers.Great piece by @WoolyWoolhouse over at WhatCulture, WWE: 10 Surprising Revelations From The 1991 Summerslam Payroll SheetWe'll be live in Saturday starting at 1 PM (EST) / Noon (CST) at Blog Talk Radio.Next week I'll have Rich Kraetsch from Voices of Wrestling and the following week I'll have wrestler/historian Matt Farmer! FUN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 This week's episode of Wrestlenomics Radio with Bix is available at: http://indeedwrestling.podbean.com/ Direct MP3 link: http://indeedwrestling.podbean.com/mf/web/a6ztsu/show_6235449_updated.mp3 We talked about the Ultimate Warrior lawsuit for an hour and then covered topics including SummerSlam 1991 payoffs, Howard Finkel's hair, WWE Network estimates and briefly touched on the WCW Discrimination lawsuit. We could have gone another 60 minutes, but we ran out of recording time! Enjoy. Thanks for checking it out and I really enjoyed the guest & the callers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Sounds awesome, Chris! EDIT: Also, is that old Memphis show with Schneider that is listed on that Podbean still exist somewhere? Would like to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Sounds awesome, Chris! EDIT: Also, is that old Memphis show with Schneider that is listed on that Podbean still exist somewhere? Would like to hear it. Here's a link to the episode: http://www.sendspace.com/file/nl2mn9 Apologies it's not available to play online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted March 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 (Because four episodes are hosted on three different sites.. ) Wrestlenomics Chronology Episode One: http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/02/12/wrestlenomics-radio-kayfabermetrics/ (2/12/14) w/ Matthew Timnons (Kayfabermetrics) Episode Two: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/indeedwrestling/2014/03/15/the-beginning-of-something-special (3/15/14) Episode Three: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/indeedwrestling/2014/03/22/rookies-mookies-and-wookies (3/22/14) Episode Four: http://indeedwrestling.podbean.com/2014/03/29/wrestlenomics-radio-w-special-guest-bix-32914/ (3/29/14) w/ Bix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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