Dylan Waco Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 To me this deserves a thread because I feel like that if you consider all factors you can make the argument that the hottest current market for wrestling is the United Kingdom. I realize on that surface that is a crazy statement. There is no major native promotion in the UK, at least not in the traditional sense, and no one is running really large venues. Having said that when I think of promotions that have developed and cultivated a niche, expanded the scope of their product and done so with (largely) homegrown talent, the promotions that immediately come to mind are ICW, PCW and This Is Progress. Two of those three seem to sell out every event, and the third (PCW) just about hits that mark every time. The shows all seems to have rabid crowds, and in the case of both ICW and This IS Progress the growth has resulted in the companies upgrading/expanding. On the interview with Meltzer/Alvarez that Drew Galloway did today he said ICW is running a 5k building soon and he is working his butt of to see that they can get a sellout. I have no clue what the state of All Star is this day in terms of drawing crowds, or what any of the other promotions there are doing, but it certainly feels like those three companies have tapped into something of note, that probably deserves more discussion than it's getting. Would love to hear the thoughts of others on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Weird thought, but could this be the result of The Wrestling Channel/Fight Channel being easily available during the mid-00's? After all, if a bunch of teenagers/young adults in their early 20's have easy access to lots of wrestling, it's not a huge leap to think that five to ten years later, a bunch of those people will get into wrestling either as fans or workers down the road, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 ICW, not ISW. PCW is HEAVY on imports, so I consider it more a super indy than proper Britwres company. All Stars doing as it does, currently doing the Rhyl summer season which is it's bread and butter this time of year. Gets about 100-150 to the town hall, but it's weekly which is all they need to make loads of money on a 5 match, 6 wrestler show, especially when you factor in the biggest draw in Britwres, The Foam Finger. Welsh Wrestling's going to do very well in October with a homecoming tour for Mason Ryan to Welsh speaking areas. Britwres is doing ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Weird thought, but could this be the result of The Wrestling Channel/Fight Channel being easily available during the mid-00's? After all, if a bunch of teenagers/young adults in their early 20's have easy access to lots of wrestling, it's not a huge leap to think that five to ten years later, a bunch of those people will get into wrestling either as fans or workers down the road, right? Apparently the only thing on TWC anyone ever used to watch was World of Sport. I could swear Sean Herbert said something along the lines of it being the only real money maker for the channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Weird thought, but could this be the result of The Wrestling Channel/Fight Channel being easily available during the mid-00's? After all, if a bunch of teenagers/young adults in their early 20's have easy access to lots of wrestling, it's not a huge leap to think that five to ten years later, a bunch of those people will get into wrestling either as fans or workers down the road, right? Apparently the only thing on TWC anyone ever used to watch was World of Sport. I could swear Sean Herbert said something along the lines of it being the only real money maker for the channel. Well yeah, that's why they failed. But, my very flimsy idea is that say, only 10,000 people out of a nation of 50-odd million were watching random shows on TWC, that's still 10,000 hardcore wrestling fans exposed to indy/puro wrestling on their TV instead of having to run across it infancy of Youtube and Youtube-like sites. Like I said, it's a weird thought, but if tape trading still got various US indy folks like Punk exposed to puro, I don't think it's a crazy idea that a whole wrestling channel full of indy and puro stuff got a few guys currently in Progress or PCW into wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Nah, it's not a weird thought at all. There's always been, well until TWC died, a veritable feast of wrestling on British television from the late 80s. We've been very lucky, in retrospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I think things like The Wrestling Channel and Powerslam created awareness but I think the biggest thing and why this era is different is that Wrestling promoters are tapping into the local drink and sports culture - soccer and darts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 How is TNA doing in the UK these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 You'd think that the UK has left their "UK Supershow"-era behind and then 4FW happens -.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 To me this deserves a thread because I feel like that if you consider all factors you can make the argument that the hottest current market for wrestling is the United Kingdom. I realize on that surface that is a crazy statement. There is no major native promotion in the UK, at least not in the traditional sense, and no one is running really large venues. Having said that when I think of promotions that have developed and cultivated a niche, expanded the scope of their product and done so with (largely) homegrown talent, the promotions that immediately come to mind are ICW, PCW and This Is Progress. Two of those three seem to sell out every event, and the third (PCW) just about hits that mark every time. The shows all seems to have rabid crowds, and in the case of both ICW and This IS Progress the growth has resulted in the companies upgrading/expanding. On the interview with Meltzer/Alvarez that Drew Galloway did today he said ICW is running a 5k building soon and he is working his butt of to see that they can get a sellout. I have no clue what the state of All Star is this day in terms of drawing crowds, or what any of the other promotions there are doing, but it certainly feels like those three companies have tapped into something of note, that probably deserves more discussion than it's getting. Would love to hear the thoughts of others on this. Not sure about the bolded. Progress crowds from the shows that I have gotten generally seem to be pretty good but I wouldn't call them rapid. PCW crowds in general haven't been very good. There were a few matches from there May shows that I thought were pretty good but in no way helped by the poor crowd reactions (and poor announcing, but that's another story). ICW has the best crowds of what I've seen although the insane reaction to Drew Galloway's return is not exactly the norm for there. I know PCW has claimed attendance just under 1,000 for many shows, but it often looks like a little less than that to me on video. In any event, they draw well but not significantly better than your good-drawing US indies. Like ButchReedMark said, they are heavy on fly-ins so what they are drawing relative to the guys that they bring in isn't that great. When you do a weekend of shows with Chris Masters, Juvi, reDRagon, Shane Helms, Al Snow, Low Ki, and Uhaa Nation all as fly-ins, not sure anything under 1,000 qualifies as all that great. Progress is switching to bigger venues but I think we are still talking around 700 capacity per show. Not trying to put down either promotion. I enjoy both and both are doing well, just not sure they re doing *that* well. wXw for my money is the one European promotion that has really been onto something over the past year. They ran an extensive tour this winter and spring, drawing decently (150 - 500 people) per show all around Germany using mainly local guys. They've ran Belgium and are running the Czech Republic in the fall. I think their cards tend to be a little more well-rounded than the many of the UK promotions as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 PCW's a hot topic this week. http://ukff.com/topic/133502-the-preston-city-wrestling-thread/page-45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 PCW's a hot topic this week. http://ukff.com/topic/133502-the-preston-city-wrestling-thread/page-45 That was absurd on too many levels to mention. Seriously, what was the promoter hoping to achieve with this? Surely he did his research into the thief before he went to the house (quick Facebook search, etc) and discovered he was a child? Don't get me wrong, I don't encourage stealing (and this includes downloading. The likes of indies, KC, RF etc try to make a living from their sales, I just think it is wrong to steal, but that's another argument) but once you clock on it's a child, surely you realise you're about to act and look like an absolute idiot going to his family home and trying to look like a thug? And then to upload such to the Internet? I'm at a loss for words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Very good All Star show in Rhyl last night. Attendance looked to be about 150. Highlights were Dean Allmark vs Seiki Yoshioka and Cannonball Grizzy (PN News)/Sam Adonis vs Robbie Dynamite/James Mason in the main. The General Manager of Wrestle-1 and Johnny Saint were there as special guests for the British Light heavyweight title Allmark/Yoshioka bout. Wonder what the Wrestle-1 bloke made of Sunny Rhyl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Anyone have a majority of the attendance figures for ICW this year? Or at least from July to current? They've ran 5 shows in that period and will be at 7 by the end of August. That's a pretty consistent rate. You've got Cabana coming in and Galloway but what else? If they did well in that period they probably shouldn't be undersold. And likewise for the reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murko Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I attend PCW on a fairly regular basis and have always found it to have a very vocal and rowdy crowd. The company runs on what seems to be a pretty successful business model drawing about 800+ each show and making a good chunk of money through merch , meet and greets events etc. They don't seem interested in expanding to larger venues or running in new parts of the country as ICW currently is, despite this I get the sense they are one of the most successful uk Indies financially . There is an excellent base of uk talent which are a key part of the current success , but I think the amount of International talent wanting to work on uk shows at moment speaks to the how hot British wrestling is and how connected with the independent circuit worldwide the uk is at the moment .Also beyond the 3 companies mentioned the wider uk scene seems to be doing well with numerous promotions like Southside, Rev pro and Futureshock ,to name a few, running regular well attended shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I attend PCW on a fairly regular basis and have always found it to have a very vocal and rowdy crowd. The company runs on what seems to be a pretty successful business model drawing about 800+ each show and making a good chunk of money through merch , meet and greets events etc. They don't seem interested in expanding to larger venues or running in new parts of the country as ICW currently is, despite this I get the sense they are one of the most successful uk Indies financially . There is an excellent base of uk talent which are a key part of the current success , but I think the amount of International talent wanting to work on uk shows at moment speaks to the how hot British wrestling is and how connected with the independent circuit worldwide the uk is at the moment .Also beyond the 3 companies mentioned the wider uk scene seems to be doing well with numerous promotions like Southside, Rev pro and Futureshock ,to name a few, running regular well attended shows. I'd really wager it's not one of the most. All Star's king of profit per head obviously (I was told by a very reliable source that Brian Dixon makes an absolute killing on pretty much every show and the number floated was mind boggling, considering), but some of the rumoured paychques for the fly-ins at PCW shows have bordered on the obscene if there's any truth to them. At least the three largest UK touring companies (All Star, Welsh Wrestling, LDN. Could a Scot fill me in on Scottish touring companies?) would be doing better than PCW financially. By some way, probably. When you consider that at an average, for the sake of argument, of 150 people drawn per show that Welsh Wrestling will see 1650 approx through the doors in October alone (Might even be more, as it's the Barri "Mason Ryan" Griffiths homecoming tour around Wales including his hometown, and more shows still might be added that month as it stands), and All Star would more than likely do even more than that, both with far smaller payroll for talent than PCW, and you can see why they'd have a definite financial edge. Especially when you consider the MASSIVE business the touring companies do at the gimmick tables. To the extent that it's often the biggest earner! Also, minor bug bear. I don't understand the whole UK "Indies" thing. Every single company in the UK is an indie. That's why the whole Defend Indy Wrestling stuff baffled me. Defend it from what? All the UK is is indies, so really they're just "Companies". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I just started watching some PROGRESS on the recommendation of some friends. Started with the first show and I'm already hooked. Any other fans out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 To me this deserves a thread because I feel like that if you consider all factors you can make the argument that the hottest current market for wrestling is the United Kingdom. You were ahead of the curve on this one, Dylan. It's inarguable at this point, right? ICW just sold out a 4,000 seat arena and is running a ~13,000 seater next year. In these days of WWE dominance the question of which promotions are fastest growing is far more interesting than who's #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingliam Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I just started watching some PROGRESS on the recommendation of some friends. Started with the first show and I'm already hooked. Any other fans out there? I've watched the first twelve shows after signing up to their on demand service. Some really good stuff, especially as you hit the end of the single digits. There are a lot of companies offering similar services in terms of access, so am currently looking to branch out. Been to several RevPro shows, as well as one PROGRESS shows. The amount of interest in UK indy wrestling feels large at the moment for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Progress is great, especially once Jimmy Havoc starts to go heel, but I really love the aura and flow of ICW the most. The talent base isn't as quality as Progress on a show to show, match by match level, but watching the rise of Grado and the Bucky Boys and catching guys like BT Gunn and James Scott makes up for it. I actually put together a playlist of ICW's shows on YouTube (as in, the ones they've put out on YouTube), and seeing a progression of the quality of talent used and how they put shows together has been fun. Hopefully, their upcoming video game will be good and get them more international attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingliam Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Progress is great, especially once Jimmy Havoc starts to go heel I knew it was coming at some point, but it still surprised me when it actually happened, I'll just throw out what I usually say when talking about PROGRESS/UK Wrestling - I've been really impressed with Nathan Cruz. He is the one guy I didn't already know about who has made me stand up and take notice. A great heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Will Ospreay has been my favorite discovery. He uses modern flyer stuff but actually bothers to sell, making him one of the best overall faces I've seen in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingliam Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Will Ospreay has been my favorite discovery. He uses modern flyer stuff but actually bothers to sell, making him one of the best overall faces I've seen in a while. I saw him live as one half of the Swords of Essex fighting for RevPro. I then saw him a couple of years after fighting in the main event for PROGRESS and RevPro. Guy has moved on leaps and bounds from where he was. A good deal of charisma, and a great face in peril. A really impressive guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Count me in. The UK scene has been great. I love Progress and Rev Pro. Ospreay is in my top 3 for babyface of the year. Will still needs to learn to sell limb damage better, but the rest of his game is great. His promo on the last Progress show blew me away. I've been reviewing Progress and Rev Pro for TWIW Podcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingliam Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I've grown on Mark Haskins as well. I didn't think much when I saw him in 2013 RevPro, but seeing early PROGRESS and catching him against Ospreay in the Chapter 2....something...event that happened recently, he has impressed me. I agree with the Ospreay limb damage thing. He does garner a lot of sympathy though, which definitely helps him. Helps he has a catchy name to chant. It would be remiss to be in a UK wrestling thread without mentioning Marty Scurll. WOOP WOOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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