How does Austin stand up as an all-timer amid the Attitude era backlash?

[Benbeeach]

This is taking the word and giving it a different twist, but Austin is probably the greatest WORKER OF television, there has ever been. No one got more out of TV than Austin did. Like others have mentioned, it's not his fault the matches were essentially the cherry on the sundae of his pre-2000 era.

The idea that he WOULDN'T have had some awesome, NUCLEAR LEVEL HEAT matches on TV is almost a preposterous thought. Austin probably could have turned walking around stalking vince for 5 minutes into a 3 star match, nevermind against a good opponent with genuine heat.

[Loss]

Austin was a great worker bell-to-bell, but I really consider him more of a great all-around performer because I think there was more to him than just his wrestling ability. You could say the same about Eddy Guerrero late in his career. Ric Flair, Terry Funk and Randy Savage also spring to mind. Yes, they are great in the ring, but their all-time status is boosted by how they incorporated their persona into their ring work and made it all click so seamlessly. Without that, they would still have positives, but to dismiss that is to dismiss a huge part of what made them so good.

[Loss]

I want to elaborate on that point.

 

Barry Windham was a great bell-to-bell worker, possibly better than anyone in my previous post. But Barry Windham was never larger than life. Hulk Hogan was larger than life and had moments in the ring where he was excellent, but also had stretches where he was just going through the motions. Neither guy was able to blend both consistently in a way that made their matches more ... grand? But Austin, Eddy, Flair, Funk and Savage were. Bret and Lawler were. On his best nights, I think Shawn was. Benoit wasn't. Great matches are important to me, but I think that persona that can make a good match even better is the difference between being a great worker and being an all-time great worker.

[kjh]

I think an argument could be made that Austin was the best TV worker in WWE in 1998. He had a lot of fun matches with a wide range of opponents when he was given the time in a variety of settings (singles matches with Goldust, Kane, Ken Shamrock and The Rock, tag matches with The Undertaker/Vince McMahon against The NAO, Rock & Owen/D-Lo, Kane & Mankind, etc). There were no classics, but with the crash TV format of Raw, no-one else was having any either.

[BigBadMick]

Is it just me or are a lot of people saying Austin had the potential and ability to have loads more great matches in 1998-99, even if they didn't occur?

 

And, the fact that they didn't occur - because they could have - in no way hurts his standing as an all-time great?

 

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but that's not making sense to me....

[Childs]

You're overthinking it. What people have said is that the guy was carrying weekly television episodes with the force of his personality and solid wrestling, fueling the hottest period in the history of the business. The notion that would somehow hurt his historical standing is absurd.

[anarchistxx]

As a worker Steve Austin had some of the best and some of the worst matches between 1996 and 2001. He was wildly inconsistent, with one main event being a beautifully laid out wild, crazy, exciting match with a load of twists and turns, and then the next month putting on some of the most turgid, tedious matches in history based around ten minutes of punch exchanges and then into the finish. Don't think too many people judge his objectively as an in ring worker when evaluating him, but compared to say Hogan he is light years ahead.

 

His 2001 is truly spectacular, with MOTYC with Benoit, Angle and Rock as well as a critically acclaimed but bloated match with HHH in February, the famous quad tear tag and plus just a ton of fun matches and angles when he was on fire like the Spike Dudley Smackdown stuff, tghe Booker-T supermarket brawl, the Austin Appreciation Night etc. The best worker in the company as a character, in ring worker and mic worker by a mile at that point.

 

In terms of TV matches you aren't going to get too many classics from 1998-1999. One thing television matches weren't back then was boring, because they usually ended really quick and had a lot of heat. These days you get objectively better matches week to week, but you also get a lot more tedium. In 1998 you get NAO wrestling LOD and it is over in two minutes, whereas today they would wrestle a paint by numbers, formulaic ten minute borefest that would have me changing the channel. The match times back then were ridiculously short, but it kept things moving, whereas Raw these days is in a permanent state of replays and pointless stuff to fill time and a sense of deja vu and inertia.

[Sidebottom]

As a worker Steve Austin had some of the best and some of the worst matches between 1996 and 2001.

 

What are you citing as some of the worst matches of 1996 - 2001 featuring Steve Austin??

[anarchistxx]

Hard to remember off the top of my head, it hs been so long since I watched any of the stuff. There were quite a few matches that consisted of fifteen minutes of punch exchanges and then run ins and finishes. They weren't the worst in a Scott Hall vs Bradshaw type of way, but they definitely sucked badly.

 

Austin vs Undertaker at Judgement Day 2001 is one that springs to mind. The triple threat with Kane & Taker in 1998 was an abomination. Both probably two of the five worst PPV main events the company ever put on.

[goodhelmet]

Man, this topic should explode once I release the 1999 yearbook. Austin has been awesome. What really hurts his run in 1998 and 1999 (as mentioned earlier) is the insane amount of time he was feuding with Taker and Kane. Foley was up for the Austin feud. He had great chemistry with Austin and they also had some great TV segments with Vince together. Kane and Taker really bring things down form an enjoyment perspective.

[Matt D]

Austin leaving in 02 is frustrating. I hadn't looked at those results for a long time, but he was basically set up to be in a bunch of matches with Eddy and Benoit, with Arn liberally interfering during a few matches with Flair here too. Once he left the Benoit/Flair/Eddie/Arn situation never came to be as they hotshotted Flair into babyfacehood.

[Loss]

The Austin-Flair RAW match that Austin had on his way out was really fun too. The one with the no punching rule. One of the few times in his last WWE run that Flair got to show a lot of veteran touches no one else was really doing at the time.

[kjh]

Yeah, Undertaker and Austin never really clicked as a pairing and it was particularly bad over the 12 months after SummerSlam '98, as Undertaker shouldn't have been in the ring for much of that period he was so banged up and the Ministry of Darkness Wrestlecrap didn't help either.