donsem43 Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Any tag with Mimi Hagiwara on one side and Devil Masami on the other. I don't think a singles match ever showed up anywhere (Classic, Lorefice's, & Ginnetty's tapes.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think a lot of Japanese wrestling fans probably avoided Joshi for the longest time for similar reasons I did- the fans seemed like obsessive creeps and you wanted nothing to do with anything they liked. Even I have been a bit creeped out by the Ice Ribbon promotion. Having a 12 year old girl wrestling in front of a crowd of about 40 middle aged men. Only in Japan. The fans did used to be normal, insomuch as wrestling fans are ever normal. You had hordes of screaming schoolgirls in the 70's and 80's. At the start of the 90's it transitioned onto your typical Puro fan demographic. It's only the last 10 years or so that the scene has been totally dead so that only the freaks remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think he's talking about your Manzerman type of fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think he's talking about your Manzerman type of fan. So was I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think this would be the right thread, but if not, please forgive me but I'd love to see and discuss Chad's joshi that made his top 100 (can be spoiler tagged - it's a must listen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton Jones Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't know what a Manzerman fan is but I mostly meant how white people typically hero worship Japanese culture. Puro fans in general are guilty of it often, if you look to other forms of media you'll see it in abundance too, but in joshi it always seemed to reach a new level. It's this whole dynamic of "I'm not a wrestling fan, I'm a JOSHI fan" that would drive me nuts. For the longest time it made me look at joshi as a lesser form of pro wrestling, and then tropes like the screaming and the rough around the edges nature of joshi helped me reinforce that idea that it wasn't "real wrestling." But somehow, understanding better that this started of as essentially an extension of jpop for tweens but somehow became the platform for your Aja Kongs, Meiko Satomuras, Akira Hokutas, etc makes me that much more fascinated by it. Basically they could have gone out there and done just about anything with big personalities and theatrics and it would have gone over, but instead they respected the craft and told stories and took ridiculous amounts of physical punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't know what a Manzerman fan is but I mostly meant how white people typically hero worship Japanese culture. Puro fans in general are guilty of it often, if you look to other forms of media you'll see it in abundance too, but in joshi it always seemed to reach a new level. It's this whole dynamic of "I'm not a wrestling fan, I'm a JOSHI fan" that would drive me nuts. I'm sure I've had this conversation before, but it's not just white people who are drawn toward Japanese pop culture. If you're referring to otaku then I've met my share of non-white otaku over the years. And I'm not someone who gives two shits about whether a person is otaku. All of us qualify as otaku by Japanese standards -- otaku usually referring to someone who is too interested in something or knows too much about it. I don't know that many Joshi fans who *only* enjoy Japanese women's wrestling, but I do know a few who place it above any other style. It was a niche for people the same as any other. We all know that the reasons why Joshi fandom was considered perverse was because the wrestlers are women. Considering that Joshi has links to the soft porn market, as well as the adult market, I suppose that's not unfounded, but if people can ignore the fetish stuff that's posted about male wrestlers on YouTube then women shouldn't be any trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Loss, can you give me like ten essential Joshi matches to watch please. Just the best ten in your view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm only going to include those that involve someone that has a GWE case. Yoshiko Tamura vs Toshie Uematsu is as good as just about anything here, but it's also pretty much all they have. These are not the 10 best matches necessarily, but I do think they make the case nicely for Hokuto, Kong, Toyota, Kansai, Kudo and Kandori. A straight list of ten may not leave you thinking anything really conclusive about specific wrestlers. Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (AJW 11/26/92) - Not quite the opening salvo in the interpromotional era, but maybe the first huge match of the time period. Toyota and Yamada represent AJW while Ozaki and Kansai represent the smaller JWP. Toyota and Yamada were tag team partners who had a friendly rivalry throughout 1992 that went a little too far earlier in the year when Toyota wanted a hair match after a few of their matches ended in stalemates. Even as Yamada lost and was having her head shaved, Toyota was begging her not to actually go through with it, but Yamada took her punishment with class. People were very upset in Korakuen Hall and it was quite the emotional scene. Anyway, they'd been through hell and back together in '92. Meanwhile in JWP, Ozaki and Kansai were just developing a rivalry themselves that would last many years. Still, they teamed here to represent their company. Friendly rival tag team partners who had been through hell in 1992 versus unfriendly rival tag team partners who had been through hell in 1992. Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (AJW 04/02/93) - One of the most famous matches in the history of Japanese wrestling. It doesn't require a lot of context, but in short, Kandori has a "tough girl" rep and Hokuto had become a loudmouthed hothead who issued a grandstand challenge. Hokuto also had a history of severe legit injuries in wrestling matches. She had to wrestle basically holding her head in place in a 1987 tag match after she broke her neck, and her match with Toyota at the 1990 Grand Prix was cut short when she did a dive to the floor and hit the guardrail shin first. That should be more than enough context to enjoy this one. Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (AJW 04/10/93) - The rematch. The 1993 WON MOTY. Watch 11/26 first! Aja Kong vs Dynamite Kansai (AJW 08/25/93) - Aja Kong chased Bull Nakano for two years and finally won the WWWA title from her at Dream Rush on 11/26. Kansai was now Aja's hunter and this was their first match against each other in what would be a two-year title chase by Kansai. This was also an interpromotional match. Aja Kong vs Megumi Kudo (AJW 12/06/93) - Kudo was FMW's top female star. She trained with the AJW class of 1986 I believe it was and wasn't considered up to snuff. She took a different route and became kind of a death match queen in FMW, which combined with her sex appeal made her pretty popular. Another interpromotional match, which means there's some bullshit to avoid a clean-as-a-sheet winner and loser, but I think it's well done bullshit. Probably the least good match on this list, but I included it because it's also Kudo working against the stylistic norm of the time and doing it well. Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (AJW 12/06/93) - I'm afraid to say too much here, other than sometimes, there is no happy ending. Watch 4/2 first! Akira Hokuto & Shinobu Kandori vs Aja Kong & Bull Nakano (AJW 03/27/94) - The story tells itself with Hokuto and Kandori as long as you watch 4/2 & 12/6 first. Aja Kong vs Dynamite Kansai (AJW 08/30/95) - Culmination of a two-year feud. You're missing some key stuff in the middle which is also enjoyable, but given the constraints of 10 matches, I still think this is a key one. Watch 8/25/93 first! Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda (FMW 05/05/96) - Toyoda was Kudo's top rival for five years. This really captures the essence of what their feud was about, although they never performed at anywhere near this level before this. This was Toyoda's retirement match. Megumi Kudo vs Shinobu Kandori (LLPW 01/05/97) - One of the first legs in Kudo's retirement tour, which would culminate at an FMW show on April 29, and maybe her second or third best match. All high-end matches and that gives you a decent sampling of the names I mentioned above. If any of them appeal to you individually, there's more you can watch after that for pretty much everyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Thanks a lot buddy. It's not an ideal way to do things, but as long as I have enough to make the ratings it will be enough for me to rank them. This has been on my to do list since Chad devoted about a third of his top 100 matches list to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm also going to edit in a little of what you may want to know going in to help you understand and appreciate the matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Have you had the chance to watch anything after Dream Rush yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 Steven mentioned not to watch too much cos he wants to do a show or something. But I will definitely watch all those you listed plus any Joshi listed in top 100s of Chad or Tim before deadline. Genuinely looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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