Emilio Charles Jr.

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Gregor]

Charles feuds:

 

vs. Atlantis (title '88, title '90, title '91, title '92)

Eternal rivals who were opponents for a lot of trios matches, even when they weren't feuding. The '88 match is the last of three title swaps between the two from that year. The '90 and '91 matches are the semi-mains of Arena Mexico cards with Rayo vs. Caras and Konnan vs. Perro main events; the '92 match is an Arena Coliseo main event and is a lot bigger. It's the only one of the three for which any of the buildup is online, which makes it annoying that the internet has only the '88 and '91 singles matches.

 

vs. Angel Azteca (title '89, title '90)

Never a particularly heated feud, but they have two singles matches online.

 

vs. El Dandy (hair '89, title '89, hair '93)

Famous feud for which most/all of the '89 stuff can be found pretty easily. For '93 all we have online is the hair match.

 

vs. La Fiera (hair '94)

None of this is online, but it looks like it was built up substantially. Fiera shows up a couple of weeks after the match with a scarred-up forehead that indicates that it was probably pretty nasty. This is a from a period of CMLL for which stuff making TV is no guarantee that it's even out there waiting to be uploaded.

 

vs. Miguel Perez Jr. (hair '94)

Similar story to that of the Fiera match but probably less important. The hair match is in the match discussion archives. I've never seen it, so I don't know if they finally shaved Perez's back after he lost.

 

vs. Silver King '96

Hey, a feud for which not only is the singles match online, but so is a match from the buildup (Emilio Charles Jr./Negro Casas/Black Warrior vs. Silver King/El Dandy/Mr. Niebla).

 

vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. (mano a mano '98, title '98)

Tag champions at the start of the year, feuding by February. The match that's online is the mano a mano.

 

vs. Satanico (mano a mano '98, hair '98)

Thecubsfan's TV database isn't complete for 1998, so I'm not sure what made TV and what didn't. The trios match that started this feud (Emilio Charles Jr./Satanico/El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas/Shocker/Mr. Niebla) is online, neither singles match is (but I'm fairly certain that the hair match was taped), and a match from the week after (Headhunters/Charles vs. Satanico/Wagner/Apolo Dantes) is. This feud brought Charles to the tecnico side for what I believe was the first time in his career.

 

vs. Shocker (hair '01)

Nothing from this or from the Apolo Dantes match that led to this is online. Charles and Shocker were stablemates who split up, and it looks like they spent much of 2001 building to this match. Here Charles lost his hair for the first time since '89.

 

I don't think a list of feuds encapsulates Charles' career as well as it does Dandy's. Dandy's feuds were bigger and more frequent, whereas Charles spent a lot of his prime as the third man in trios matches.

[Loss]

How does he compare to Atlantis, Pirata Morgan and Fuerza Guerrera?

[Parties]

'90 and '91 title matches with Atlantis were really good, with '90 being the superior of the two. I'm still trying to figure out if/where to rank these guys, but both looked strong. '91's a bit more of an Atlantis showcase, while '90 is the Charles show. There he has great offense, and even sells L'Atlantida notably well.

 

So far I actually like Charles in random trios matches moreso than in title fights, but he's a worthy candidate who does well at both. Will be a guy I watch more of in the weeks to come.

[GOTNW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyQXbH3L4hQ

I'm thinking of bumping him up like ten spots for this.

[KB8]

I had Emilio at 62 in 2016 and I'm happy with that. I guess you can ding him for not having a bunch of high-end singles matches, but as far as rudo trios workers go I'm not sure you'll find anyone more more consistent. Plus he has his share of singles matches that I'd call at least really good (with a couple that are awesome), so he's not there based on the trios output alone. I think he's more an input guy, anyway. Whether he's leading a team (doesn't feel like that was the case very often, honestly) or the third man, he was almost always worth watching for one reason or another. He had the amazing stooging and shtick, but he could go when the situation called for a bit more decorum. He'd almost inevitably slip into habit, sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly, but the moment he did was never a let-down. It's legit been over a decade since I watched any of his 1989 stuff, but I remember that being arguably his best year and I really should watch everything he did with Dandy all over again. He was still having decent stuff up to at least 2000, so he has a nice longevity case there even if it might be a little short by the real high-end lucha candidates' standards. 

 

EMILIO CHARLES JR. YOU SHOULD WATCH:

v El Dandy (EMLL, 7/28/89)

v El Dandy (EMLL, 12/1/89)

v Angel Azteca (CMLL, 1/12/90)

w/Jerry Estrada & Pirata Morgan v Salomon Grundy, Super Astro & El Satanico (CMLL, 3/9/90)

v Atlantis (CMLL, 8/11/92)

[ohtani's jacket]

Heart says yes, head says no.

There was a period from '88-90 where Emilio was on par with the other top workers in Mexico, but after that there is a steady decline. It's not that he's awful or anything. It's just a significant dip. He's still an engaging personality, but he's banged up and damn near falling apart. You can hide that in trios matches, but in singles it's painfully obvious. Still, it's Emilio Charles, Jr. I always loved the way that name rolled off the tongue. 

[cad]

Not something that's going to drastically alter his candidacy, but I always found it interesting that Charles' entire filmed career came after his thirtieth birthday. That's not the case anymore. A couple of months ago DJ Spectro put up a match with twenty-eight year old babyface Charles getting ready for a hair vs hair match against the future Jaque Mate. It's possible with the kind of people who come here that everyone's seen it already but just in case you haven't, here is (AFAIK) the earliest Emilio Charles match on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t2v27sWLQM

(He also has a video with Amenaza Elegante, which is pre-Octagon Octagon.)

[Clayton Jones]

Awesome piece of footage. Charles is electric every time he gets involved, he always impresses me with how he makes the most of every opportunity. I'd be lying if I said I understood what was happening with the match as a whole but I did really enjoy getting a glimpse of a young(er) Emilio working that crowd into a frenzy.

[cad]

So in the link I posted above, Emilio Charles was a twenty-nine year old undersized heavyweight tecnico whose career highlight may have been winning the citywide HW championship (it's not clear if he actually did), all of which is a rather benign way of saying that his career was on the slow train to nowhere. At some point he must have looked at similar sized wrestlers like Lizmark, Satanico and Atlantis and the success they were having in the lower weight divisions and said to himself, "Well, I'm as good as any of them, I just need to lose a little weight." Anyone can think that sort of thing, but Charles went out and did cut down to middleweight and did prove that he belonged in that class of wrestler. His first big shot came when he joined the Destructores, and before long he outgrew them and was ready to make it alone. Consistent EMLL footage starts shortly after that, in 1989, with Emilio Charles as world middleweight champion and one of the promotion's top rudos. To see him at this stage you'd think he was one of the giants of Mexican wrestling. He was technically excellent and a picture perfect bumper with the best right hand in the country, and he delivered in his big matches, but that wasn't what made him special. It was moments like this, when he had old men loosening their ties, or the last two falls of this match, when the crowd couldn't take their eyes off him, turning a three on three match into one on one, with four other guys in the background. I'd rate him as the best worker in the country that year.

Then all of a sudden he stopped wrestling like that, instead working like he wanted to be the world's best good hand. That's no mean feat, to be the world's best good hand, but there are plenty of brilliant looking matchups for 1990s Charles that end up being solid, slightly formulaic 3-3.5 star matches. I don't know whether it was the booking, or if he finally felt content in his position, but there was a definite shift. From there he declined by an imperceptible amount each year, the changes noticeable only over three years or so. In 1992 he was still great, but not really in the running for best worker in the promotion. In 1995 he was a solid veteran rudo with no real great matches to his name. In 1998 he turned tecnico, huffing and puffing as he tried to work rudos through the same sequences that had been done to him so many times in years before. In 2001 he was getting by on his charisma and his outstanding record in apuestas matches. In 2004 he was a comedy worker. You want to know where Emilio Charles finished in 2016? 193rd. Even among his fellow luchadores he didn't do that well. I see that Owen Hart finished 58th, and he seems to me an excellent comparison to Charles, both excellent physical talents and heels that the fans loved to hate, and both gifted enough to have good matches in cruise control, to their benefit and detriment. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see a whole lot between them.

Down here I usually try to list some good matches that simply showcase what I like about a particular wrestler, but with Emilio I'll try to list his best ones, IMO:
ECJ, Pierroth and Pirata Morgan vs Atlantis, Blue Demon Jr. and Huracan Ramirez (Sevilla)
Emilio Charles Jr. vs Dandy (hair vs hair 1989)
ECJ, MS-1 and Tierra Viento y Fuego vs Dandy, Mascara Sagrada and Atlantis
ECJ, Jerry Estrada and Pirata Morgan vs Angel Azteca, Atlantis and Satanico
ECJ, Fuerza Guerrera and Fiera vs Misterioso, Hijo del Santo and Mascara Sagrada (Emilio is a sidekick in this one)
ECJ, Bestia Salvaje and Negro Casas vs Ultimo Dragon, Atlantis and Lizmark (the only Charles match to get **** in the Observer)
Emilio Charles Jr. vs Atlantis (not as smooth as their usual match, but much more dramatic)
ECJ, Fiera and Satanico vs Dandy, Pierroth and Atlantis (another sidekick performance)