Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Mark Henry vs. Jerry Blackwell

[Grimmas]

have at it.

[Matt D]

I think Mark Henry vs Jerry Blackwell is more interesting.

[bradhindsight]

Why don't you amend it to be vs. Blackwell. I had overlooked the thread for Henry so I can ask my questions there.

[BillThompson]

As I said in the Bam Bam topic, I like Bam Bam. However, he's more of an untapped potential guy than anything else. Had all the tools but spent the majority of his career in middling territory because of booking, career choices, and an inability on his end to take all of his tools and apply them in such a way that he would live up to his potential. Henry is the opposite case, lots of skill, but I never saw that potential. However, Henry worked his ass off, and really honed his skills to the point where he brings so much to the table that he easily blows away Bam Bam. Henry is up there with Vader and Andre as one of the best big men ever, and I honestly don't see any argument for Bam Bam over Henry.

[Childs]

Henry is up there with Vader and Andre as one of the best big men ever, and I honestly don't see any argument for Bam Bam over Henry.

 

I like Mark Henry. I really do. I believe he's done a ton of smart things to maximize his performances over the last 10 years. But the idea that his best approaches the best of Vader and Andre just strikes me as nutty. I mean please, make that case if it's there. But I just don't see his Vader-Sting series or his Andre-Khan from '82.

[Dylan Waco]

His best individual matches aren't at that level, BUT (and I love Andre), can we point to a six month Andre period as good as Henry's second half of 2011? I know footage is partially the issue here, but I can't think of one.

[Childs]

No and that would be the logical argument for a Henry supporter. But at some point, with this kind of ranking project, you've got to blow my hair back. And Mark, for all the times he's made me happier than expected to watch a match, hasn't blown my hair back like the best of the best.

[Childs]

I should add that I don't really know what to do with Andre in this thing. He'll be one of my tougher ranks.

[BillThompson]

 

Henry is up there with Vader and Andre as one of the best big men ever, and I honestly don't see any argument for Bam Bam over Henry.

 

I like Mark Henry. I really do. I believe he's done a ton of smart things to maximize his performances over the last 10 years. But the idea that his best approaches the best of Vader and Andre just strikes me as nutty. I mean please, make that case if it's there. But I just don't see his Vader-Sting series or his Andre-Khan from '82.

 

 

 

To clarify, I don't think Henry is at the same level as Vader and Andre. But, he's closer to that grouping than Bam Bam and I don't scoff at Henry being in a best big man discussion whereas I don't see any reason that Bam Bam should be in such a discussion. Right now Henry is behind both Vader and Andre as far as big men go, but I need to see more Blackwell is see where he fits in that grouping.

[Grimmas]

I added Blackwell to this debate.

[Dylan Waco]

To be clear, I basically agree with Childs, though I would argue that Henry has come really close to that level a few times. I seriously doubt Henry makes my top 100 for the record, but it's a cut that will pain me.

 

I'll have Blackwell above every big man other than Vader

[Steenalized]

Bam Bam holds a special place for me since he was one of my absolute favorites as a kid. I thought he was so friggin' cool and he was one of the few guys who I didn't care if he was a face or heel, even though as a kid I hated heels and loved faces. Unfortunately, his career set doesn't really match up, though there are some good highs. Henry would absolutely win this for me if character/promo work is taken into account and I think he's the best 'on a neutral field,' all else considered. Blackwell looks to have the best actual resume, but I've seen the least and have the smallest connection with him.

[JerryvonKramer]

His best individual matches aren't at that level, BUT (and I love Andre), can we point to a six month Andre period as good as Henry's second half of 2011? I know footage is partially the issue here, but I can't think of one.

I don't know if this is fair to Andre though because he was constantly in and out. In the 70s/ early 80s WWF we've watched on Titans, there *isn't* a 6 month period where he's consistently around.

 

You'd have to pull up a Loss-style list to see all the different places he was working. I'd actually be pretty interested to see what Andre did -- let's say in the 3 months before and 3 months after the Kahn match in 82.

 

I'll have Blackwell above every big man other than Vader

I honestly don't see Blackwell as a big man, but simply as a "fat man". Seems like I'm really splitting hairs here, but I do think there's a genuine difference.

 

Jerry Blackwell, John Tenta, King Kong Bundy, One Man Gang: fat men

 

Don Leo Jonathan, Big John Studd, The Warlord, Mark Henry: big men

 

Stan Frazier, Haystacks Calhoun, Giant Haystacks, Andre, Baba, Giant Gonzales: Giants

[Dylan Waco]

I agree that the Henry to Andre comp on the grounds of "length of run" isn't really fair, but one could also argue that it wasn't fair that Henry spent most of his career in a promotion that didn't treat him like a star and/or someone who could have an epic, big time match. It is notable to me that the three times Henry got a top dog or near top dog push he had very good years (06, 08, 11), with matches that really aren't that far below "classic" level and might even reach that level depending on how one defines that term.

[JerryvonKramer]

How good was Andre during the rest of that tour? I've not got to 82 in my NJPW viewing yet. I really liked him in 81, not just in the Hansen match but in the tag with Goulet as well against Inoki / Fujinami.

 

Andre is a really tough one though because arguably, unlike Henry, he never got a top dog push *really* until he was basically done (87 onwards).

 

Andre being booked as a special attraction meant that his career was an endless loop of battle royals, handicap tags against Johnny Rodz and co., semi-comedy matches, six-man tags, and so on.

 

I will say that the matches he had with Hogan in 1980 were really disappointing. But how many feuds and main event angles did Andre actually work? Since him just being on the card would be enough to pop the gate, he didn't really need to be in a feature matchup.