pantherwagner Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 The WWE is banking its future on the WWE Network and this week we saw the launch of NJPW World. It looks that with DVD sales going down, PPV dying and iPPV being a somewhat failed experiment, this will be the way that promotions will compete for our wrestling dollars... Who do you think is going to be the next promotion to launch their own "Network" service? The candidates... ROH: This would be my #1 choice. Well established promotion that always seems to be trying to expand even through it's always going to be at the level that it's at. Loyal fanbase and a fairly extensive library with many names. I could see them trying to launch some sort of service where for 6 or 7 bucks you can access their library and perhaps charging a small premium for current events. TNA: I don't know who would pay for this service. Maybe Dylan if he hates himself. Japanese indies: I haven't followed Japanese indies for a decade and a half but they have always had somewhat of a loyal even if small following. Is Samurai TV still around? I could see them trying an over the top service if NJPW does well. If they could score access to the AJPW and AJW libraries we could have a winner. AAA: Can't see it due to their current US expansion plans. The fanbase and the library are there, though. CMLL: This almost makes way too much sense which guarantees that it will never happen. Their TV situation is sketchy but they produce so many different shows that they could almost churn out a daily show. Their library is the most amazing collection to never be exploited and, unlike in the US, in Mexico I can see a bigger demand for nostalgia shows. However, as I said, it makes too much sense to have access to all the Anniversary shows, the Casas vs Santo feud, or access to Atlantis' mask vs mask matches vs Ultimo Guerrero, Villano III, Mano Negra or Talisman. Any others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 CMLL would be the ideal one. All Japan would be awesome too. I don't even know who owns the libraries of the dead Joshi feds at this point. Once again, had the old promoters been able to see the future, maybe they never would have sold their libraries to Vince. They could have pulled their resources to run their own Network if they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 ROH seems likely. How deep is the CMLL library? I'm not trying to joke or anything, just seriously wondering how much they have preserved? I could see Smart Mark Video possibly launching something with all the promotions they tape/release. It'd be kind of fun to have all the old IWA-MS stuff on demand. If some sort of subscription streaming service launched from them I would subscribe just for the amount of random stuff I'm sure is there that I'd never want to buy a whole dvd to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 World Wrestling Network is available on ROKU. Its not a network per se, but it's there. http://www.wwnlive.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Nippon TV has all the AJPW & NOAH stuff that would be the easiest one other than Televisa but that damn sure ain't happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 ROH seems likely. How deep is the CMLL library? I'm not trying to joke or anything, just seriously wondering how much they have preserved? As far as the legend goes the CMLL library is there and it's perfectly complete and perfectly preserved and owned by Televisa (same about AAA). Even when wrestling was banned from TV in Mexico City every Arena Mexico (and many Coliseo shows) were taped for Galavision Europe, the SIN (Spanish International Network) and for a while for a premium cable network that had a short life in the 80s called Cablevision. About a decade ago, perhaps more, there were a few documentaries about lucha history, greatest matches ever, etc., and we could see highlights of things that have never been seen in decades, such as the Fishman vs Sangre Chicana vs Cobarde triangle mask match from 1975 or Atlantis vs El Talisman from 1984 and other "Holy Grials" of lucha libre. I spoke to the guy who had access to those master tapes and he told me that EVERYTHING was there. That's the only proof we have got - Televisa is known was a black hole. They have never really bothered releasing commercially almost anything from their libraries because as soon as you release a DVD for, say, 5 bucks, it will be sold in every street corner bootleg shop for 1 dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 CMLL would be the ideal one. All Japan would be awesome too. I don't even know who owns the libraries of the dead Joshi feds at this point. Once again, had the old promoters been able to see the future, maybe they never would have sold their libraries to Vince. They could have pulled their resources to run their own Network if they wanted. I think the AJW library is owned by Fuji TV. If the old promoters had been smart they'd have taped and preserved everything as well, though to be honest Vince would have ended up owning everything. The only ones that got some mileage out of the tapes were the AWA and Mid South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Having only really dipped my foot into the lucha pool, a CMLL network would be pretty amazing to go back and fill in the blanks and watch some of the things that OJ wrote about that aren't on the set. I would sign up for that on day 1. That's not even considering footage quality upgrades over the things that are already out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 World Wrestling Network is available on ROKU. Its not a network per se, but it's there. http://www.wwnlive.com/ Who knows when it will happen, but the owners have said they will be changing to a subscription based model at some point and it will be more of a streaming network type deal. Outside of CMLL/AAA I'm not sure if there's any others I see coming down the pipeline right now. I think eventually everyone will have to adopt the streaming subscription based model, and when that day comes I cans ee plenty of promotions banding together to try and form larger networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Given how it's gone for WWE, and given that NJPW seems to be doing this more because of a cargo cult mentality that aping incidental traits of WWE will bring them WWE's success rather than sound business reasoning, I wouldn't expect to see another one for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Didn't Talisman vs. Atlantis have the same finish as the Atlantis/Mano Negra bout? If people think the Ultimo Guerrero match had a poor finish they ain't seen nothing when it comes to Atlantis finishes. I have a hard time believing that any service like this would satisfy a hardcore fan. A mate of mine let me take a look at his online Marvel account and I gave up after a few minutes. There's no way these sort of things compare to what's been uploaded by fans. It would be beyond words to have the Televisa vaults opened, but only if the tapes were in the hands of people who knew what to do with them, which really has only ever happened somewhat haphazardly with Japanese Classics shows and WoS on TWC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Given how it's gone for WWE, and given that NJPW seems to be doing this more because of a cargo cult mentality that aping incidental traits of WWE will bring them WWE's success rather than sound business reasoning, I wouldn't expect to see another one for a while. What are the alternatives for New Japan? There's no TV rights deals, no huge PPV numbers. If you're New Japan you should at least try to get people to pay for this stuff instead of watching it for free on streaming sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Given how it's gone for WWE, and given that NJPW seems to be doing this more because of a cargo cult mentality that aping incidental traits of WWE will bring them WWE's success rather than sound business reasoning, I wouldn't expect to see another one for a while. What are the alternatives for New Japan? There's no TV rights deals, no huge PPV numbers. If you're New Japan you should at least try to get people to pay for this stuff instead of watching it for free on streaming sites. They did 100k iPPV buys for the January 4th Dome show the past 2 years, it's going to take a lot of subscriptions for them to reach parity with that. Meltzer has a good analysis of the subject in the latest Observer; he doesn't sound particularly positive about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 I don't really believe that they did 100k on those events, but even if they did it's a drop in the bucket compared to the WWE's finances. We're only talking about US $250,000. If they can get a 100k buys on an IPPV they should be able to get enough subscribers to compensate for that in the long run. It's simply a matter of whether customers are willing to pay monthly instead of a one off purchase. IPPV doesn't seem particularly stable and their other platforms are useless. The way NJPW is broadcast is so fragmented that it makes sense to cut out the providers if they possibly can, but I don't really see how the site is as ambitious as the network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 ROH seems likely. How deep is the CMLL library? I'm not trying to joke or anything, just seriously wondering how much they have preserved? As far as the legend goes the CMLL library is there and it's perfectly complete and perfectly preserved and owned by Televisa (same about AAA). Even when wrestling was banned from TV in Mexico City every Arena Mexico (and many Coliseo shows) were taped for Galavision Europe, the SIN (Spanish International Network) and for a while for a premium cable network that had a short life in the 80s called Cablevision. About a decade ago, perhaps more, there were a few documentaries about lucha history, greatest matches ever, etc., and we could see highlights of things that have never been seen in decades, such as the Fishman vs Sangre Chicana vs Cobarde triangle mask match from 1975 or Atlantis vs El Talisman from 1984 and other "Holy Grials" of lucha libre. I spoke to the guy who had access to those master tapes and he told me that EVERYTHING was there. That's the only proof we have got - Televisa is known was a black hole. They have never really bothered releasing commercially almost anything from their libraries because as soon as you release a DVD for, say, 5 bucks, it will be sold in every street corner bootleg shop for 1 dollar. Maybe Jose you can help me understand the mentality of this but what is the reasoning for keeping this stuff stored in though. I understand the black market that would result from it (I would be one of those people) but some revenue of older footage is better than none right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Based on my travels in Colombia I can understand why they wouldn't want to put out DVDs. There were little cheap $1 DVD shops all over the place with brand new releases and even stuff that was still in theaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Didn't Talisman vs. Atlantis have the same finish as the Atlantis/Mano Negra bout? If people think the Ultimo Guerrero match had a poor finish they ain't seen nothing when it comes to Atlantis finishes. I have a hard time believing that any service like this would satisfy a hardcore fan. A mate of mine let me take a look at his online Marvel account and I gave up after a few minutes. There's no way these sort of things compare to what's been uploaded by fans. It would be beyond words to have the Televisa vaults opened, but only if the tapes were in the hands of people who knew what to do with them, which really has only ever happened somewhat haphazardly with Japanese Classics shows and WoS on TWC. Good question: I don't know if the finish was for Atlantis vs. Talisman was a quickie 3rd fall. There are enough people in Mexico that would have a good idea of what's in the tapes. One of the reasons why in Mexico there are no Steve Yohe or Steve Sims type guys is because these guys all works for the magazines or for the promotions so many of them have made a career out of that. They are not about to give away their work for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 ROH seems likely. How deep is the CMLL library? I'm not trying to joke or anything, just seriously wondering how much they have preserved? As far as the legend goes the CMLL library is there and it's perfectly complete and perfectly preserved and owned by Televisa (same about AAA). Even when wrestling was banned from TV in Mexico City every Arena Mexico (and many Coliseo shows) were taped for Galavision Europe, the SIN (Spanish International Network) and for a while for a premium cable network that had a short life in the 80s called Cablevision. About a decade ago, perhaps more, there were a few documentaries about lucha history, greatest matches ever, etc., and we could see highlights of things that have never been seen in decades, such as the Fishman vs Sangre Chicana vs Cobarde triangle mask match from 1975 or Atlantis vs El Talisman from 1984 and other "Holy Grials" of lucha libre. I spoke to the guy who had access to those master tapes and he told me that EVERYTHING was there. That's the only proof we have got - Televisa is known was a black hole. They have never really bothered releasing commercially almost anything from their libraries because as soon as you release a DVD for, say, 5 bucks, it will be sold in every street corner bootleg shop for 1 dollar. Maybe Jose you can help me understand the mentality of this but what is the reasoning for keeping this stuff stored in though. I understand the black market that would result from it (I would be one of those people) but some revenue of older footage is better than none right? There's so little money at stake for a giant company like Televisa (that owns the tapes) so there's absolutely no reason to do it. CMLL is run by the laziest people ever to run a major promotion so I'd not expect a spark of brilliance or enthusiasm to come out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNLister Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Ring of Honor has had the equivalent of the network for a couple of years now. It's $7.99 a month (or less for longer-term signups), which gets you access to about 70 full archive shows from 2002-13, the full run of TV on HD Net, the new weekly TV shows on the Monday after they air (they then go free on the site on the Thursday) plus discounts on merchandise and early access to ticket sales. The main difference is you don't get any access to the current iPPVs like you do with NJPW and WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Ring of Honor has had the equivalent of the network for a couple of years now. It's $7.99 a month (or less for longer-term signups), which gets you access to about 70 full archive shows from 2002-13, the full run of TV on HD Net, the new weekly TV shows on the Monday after they air (they then go free on the site on the Thursday) plus discounts on merchandise and early access to ticket sales. The main difference is you don't get any access to the current iPPVs like you do with NJPW and WWE. Do they ever add to the archives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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