Battle of the Finish: Sting vs Bret Hart

[kingliam]

I'm assuming this is the right part of the forum to post this, but please let me know.

 

Simply put, I've always felt that Bret Hart had a number of finishes to matches that he would use, much more than I'd see from other wrestlers who tended to have maybe a second finisher at best, but not the amount of different uses of packages/cradles/other moves.

 

However, as I watch more Sting, at least on WCW tv, it seems as if he rarely finishes a match with the Deathlock, choosing a myriad of different ways to defeat his opponents.

 

Fairly pointless question really, but just one that had me musing (with the addition that some of you will have seen a tonne more than me) - which guy had more finishes? Better yet, which one had the better finishes? I was always partial to the Bret 'kick off the turnbuckle during a sleeper/cobra clutch to get the pin' finish.

 

EDIT: By all means, suggest other wrestlers who seemed to have multiple ways to end a match.

[Grimmas]

I will go out on a limb and say Bret was the best finish guy in wrestling. He has so many famous finishes!

 

Here is a just few of my favourite

 

WM8 vs Piper and Survivor Series '96 vs Austin: the kick off the ropes pin.

IYH5 vs Davey Boy: the magistral cradle

1st title win vs Flair: actual Sharpshooter finish

Survivor Series '95 vs Diesel: being dead and out of nowhere inside cradle

WM10 vs Owen: tries Victory Roll only to have it countered for loss, after winning KOTR93 with Victory Roll.

 

All of his finishes made sense and were unique.

[kingliam]

Sting might not have as many big name ones, but he had some very interesting ones.

 

I remember him beating Regal with a pin after backbody dropping Regal out of a butterfly suplex setup.

 

I also saw him beat someone (can't quite remember who) with a slam as he caught them coming off the top rope.

[WingedEagle]

I will go out on a limb and say Bret was the best finish guy in wrestling. He has so many famous finishes!

 

Here is a just few of my favourite

 

WM8 vs Piper and Survivor Series '96 vs Austin: the kick off the ropes pin.

IYH5 vs Davey Boy: the magistral cradle

1st title win vs Flair: actual Sharpshooter finish

Survivor Series '95 vs Diesel: being dead and out of nowhere inside cradle

WM10 vs Owen: tries Victory Roll only to have it countered for loss, after winning KOTR93 with Victory Roll.

 

All of his finishes made sense and were unique.

 

That really is quite a lot of fluky finishes. Wonder why he went to the same well so often.

[Mad Dog]

Sting might not have as many big name ones, but he had some very interesting ones.

 

I remember him beating Regal with a pin after backbody dropping Regal out of a butterfly suplex setup.

 

I also saw him beat someone (can't quite remember who) with a slam as he caught them coming off the top rope.

Didn't he beat Meng with a jumping DDT when he won the U.S. Title?

[SomethingSavage]

I always liked the idea of Bret actually getting big wins with quick cradles & flash pins. It made every hope spot seem like something that could legitimately end the match - which, ya know, is sort of the purpose of 'em in the first place.

[GOTNW]

 

I also saw him beat someone (can't quite remember who) with a slam as he caught them coming off the top rope.

Vader.

[kingliam]

I would have remembered if it was Vader - this was a highlight shown during a WCW 1992 TV show. I want to say Mr Hughes, but I'm also fairly sure it isn't him either.

[JAC]

I would have remembered if it was Vader - this was a highlight shown during a WCW 1992 TV show. I want to say Mr Hughes, but I'm also fairly sure it isn't him either.

 

He probably used that as the finish to multiple matches. As GOTNW said, he did it to Vader at Starrcade 1992 (https://youtu.be/tctYdhZkbJs?t=1m55s) and when winning the title from Vader in London on March 11, 1993 (https://youtu.be/2Q4IAUoHNvs?t=13m32s).

 

I'm not nearly clever enough to figure out how to embed those videos.

[JAC]

On the subject of the original post, when I watched the WWE's Sting blu-ray set, I was shocked at how many matches ended other than by Scorpion Deathlock. I like the varied-finish approach. What's the point of doing a sunset flip or an inside cradle it it never wins you a match?

 

I do give Bret the edge here, in that his seemingly random finishes fit the matches beautifully. For example, the finish to the Piper and Austin Survivor Series matches made perfect sense given that his opponents made frequent use of the sleep and the million dollar dream respectively. The finish only makes sense against an opponent with a credible sleep-type hold.

 

Credit to Sting for using the powerslam against Vader, though. It was the perfect counter under the circumstances. I wish the WWE were more open to doing finishes like this.

[kingliam]

On the subject of the original post, when I watched the WWE's Sting blu-ray set, I was shocked at how many matches ended other than by Scorpion Deathlock. I like the varied-finish approach. What's the point of doing a sunset flip or an inside cradle it it never wins you a match?

 

I do give Bret the edge here, in that his seemingly random finishes fit the matches beautifully. For example, the finish to the Piper and Austin Survivor Series matches made perfect sense given that his opponents made frequent use of the sleep and the million dollar dream respectively. The finish only makes sense against an opponent with a credible sleep-type hold.

 

Credit to Sting for using the powerslam against Vader, though. It was the perfect counter under the circumstances. I wish the WWE were more open to doing finishes like this.

 

That is my slight issue with the Sting/Vader finish - Vader has top rope moves, but does he have anything that made sense in that situation? He wasn't going for a Vader Bomb or Moonsault.

[PhilTLL]

Top-rope bell ringer was a favorite of his. Also, it wasn't well-established in WCW, but if I recall from NJPW, Vader was capable of a crossbody.

[Matt D]

Shelton Benjamin quantum leaped into his body

[Grimmas]

 

I will go out on a limb and say Bret was the best finish guy in wrestling. He has so many famous finishes!

 

Here is a just few of my favourite

 

WM8 vs Piper and Survivor Series '96 vs Austin: the kick off the ropes pin.

IYH5 vs Davey Boy: the magistral cradle

1st title win vs Flair: actual Sharpshooter finish

Survivor Series '95 vs Diesel: being dead and out of nowhere inside cradle

WM10 vs Owen: tries Victory Roll only to have it countered for loss, after winning KOTR93 with Victory Roll.

 

All of his finishes made sense and were unique.

 

That really is quite a lot of fluky finishes. Wonder why he went to the same well so often.

 

Pardon?

 

How many types of finishers are there then? Fluky? Clean? Cheap? I would say fluky is the least likely of those.

 

Also, it wasn't so much fluky as more outsmarting.

[WingedEagle]

The Sharpshooter isn't fluky. Diesel's jackinfe isn't fluky. Davey Boy's powerslam isn't fluky. Kicking the ropes out of a sleeper and getting one shoulder up while locked in a submission? That's fluky. Doing it multiple times? That's slip on a banana peel to defend the title fluky. Same for a cradle in a major world title defense. I understand using that type of finish from time to time and it can be a great storytelling device. But when your champion is relying on it that often the story it tells is that he is just getting by rather than conclusively defeating his challengers.

[Eduardo]

When did the "Vader jumps off the ropes and gets powerslammed" become a regular spot in his matches though? If you watch a lot of Vader matches from the 1990's, that spot was used almost as much as Ric Flair being pressed slammed off the top rope. Okay maybe not that frequently, but it was a spot he used all the time. I've seen Sting, Davey, Dustin, Foley, Hart, 'Taker, Simmons, and several others do that to Vader.

[Mad Dog]

Top-rope bell ringer was a favorite of his. Also, it wasn't well-established in WCW, but if I recall from NJPW, Vader was capable of a crossbody.

I've seen him sunset flip guys as Leon White in the AWA.

[PhilTLL]

 

Top-rope bell ringer was a favorite of his. Also, it wasn't well-established in WCW, but if I recall from NJPW, Vader was capable of a crossbody.

I've seen him sunset flip guys as Leon White in the AWA.

Well, yeah, he was capable of all sorts of stuff. I should have worded that better, ha.

[Grimmas]

The Sharpshooter isn't fluky. Diesel's jackinfe isn't fluky. Davey Boy's powerslam isn't fluky. Kicking the ropes out of a sleeper and getting one shoulder up while locked in a submission? That's fluky. Doing it multiple times? That's slip on a banana peel to defend the title fluky. Same for a cradle in a major world title defense. I understand using that type of finish from time to time and it can be a great storytelling device. But when your champion is relying on it that often the story it tells is that he is just getting by rather than conclusively defeating his challengers.

So what? How does it not make great matches and story telling?

[WingedEagle]

 

The Sharpshooter isn't fluky. Diesel's jackinfe isn't fluky. Davey Boy's powerslam isn't fluky. Kicking the ropes out of a sleeper and getting one shoulder up while locked in a submission? That's fluky. Doing it multiple times? That's slip on a banana peel to defend the title fluky. Same for a cradle in a major world title defense. I understand using that type of finish from time to time and it can be a great storytelling device. But when your champion is relying on it that often the story it tells is that he is just getting by rather than conclusively defeating his challengers.

So what? How does it not make great matches and story telling?

 

 

I think the finish is a large part of a match. Variable how much and I've always wondered just how much a great finish can add to a good match or similarly a poor finish take away from what was to that point a great finish. Where the finish is weak that takes away from the match for me. Your list happened to highlight just how often Hart went to the same well. I enjoyed some of those finishes when they happened, while others (Piper, DBS, KOTR '93) took away a great deal from the solid work that led up to them.

[Grimmas]

 

 

The Sharpshooter isn't fluky. Diesel's jackinfe isn't fluky. Davey Boy's powerslam isn't fluky. Kicking the ropes out of a sleeper and getting one shoulder up while locked in a submission? That's fluky. Doing it multiple times? That's slip on a banana peel to defend the title fluky. Same for a cradle in a major world title defense. I understand using that type of finish from time to time and it can be a great storytelling device. But when your champion is relying on it that often the story it tells is that he is just getting by rather than conclusively defeating his challengers.

So what? How does it not make great matches and story telling?

 

 

I think the finish is a large part of a match. Variable how much and I've always wondered just how much a great finish can add to a good match or similarly a poor finish take away from what was to that point a great finish. Where the finish is weak that takes away from the match for me. Your list happened to highlight just how often Hart went to the same well. I enjoyed some of those finishes when they happened, while others (Piper, DBS, KOTR '93) took away a great deal from the solid work that led up to them.

 

While I thought those finishes were great and made the match better.

[Slasher]

Bret Hart was marketed as the Excellence of Execution and among one of the best technicians in WWF history in canon. Although the Sharpshooter is a move he could use on anyone, it makes sense that he would have ways to beat you in different situations when called for it. It isn't that Bret is actively seeking to kick off the ropes into a pinfall while in a choke but it is that people are stupid enough to put themselves in a situation where he gets to do that move. In American football terms he is just taking what the defense gives him, he doesn't have to kill you with a 60 yard pass. He could dink and dunk you to death just as well. All these little moves and counters are stuff that makes Bret just as dangerous as the dominant submission finisher does.