thebrainfollower Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Last night I was watching Roddy Piper's old Coliseum Video (autographed) as a tribute with a couple of wrestling friends. They posed a question to me I want to offer to the group. In their mind the top 5 Hulkamania era WWF wrestlers were Hogan, Piper, Andre, Savage and Warrior (in terms of the biggest stars). With 4 of those 5 deceased, who would your top 5 living be? It has to be for stuff done in the WWF only in Hogan's 2nd run (January 84-WM VIII) and only wrestlers, no Vince, managers or commentators. Guys like Flair, Shawn Michaels or Undertaker just weren't around long enough. I feel like Jake Roberts and Ted Dibiase are now slam dunks for this. Beyond that though.......Orndorff? Honky? Duggan? Beefcake? Maybe Bret would at least was a tag and IC champ during this era and around for almost all of it? Tito? Valentine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I was actually thinking the other night about who the #2 guy alive from that era would be now. I guess Orndorff or Dibiase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Rude, Tito and Valentine (by your criteria) I'd say are bigger slam dunks than Jake and possibly Dibiase as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Bobby Heenan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Rude, Tito and Valentine (by your criteria) I'd say are bigger slam dunks than Jake and possibly Dibiase as well. Rick Rude cannot be apart of this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Rude, Tito and Valentine (by your criteria) I'd say are bigger slam dunks than Jake and possibly Dibiase as well. Don't think so as none of those guys got as big a push as DiBiase in 87-8 or storylines as big time as buying the belt / evil twin ref / WM4 tournament. Rude has the fact that Hogan wouldn't work with him as a knock. He feels closer to a Mr. Perfect than a Ted. Greg and Tito were strictly IC level. Jake is kind of a special case I think and has a lot of "man on the street" recognisability. If I went to any of my casual non-wrestler friends and asked them to name 5 wrestlers, I reckon Jake would be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Google hits are interesting here. The top guys I found were Dibiase and Sheik, though nicknames make it a little tricky especially for a guy like Jake who looks to be on the next tier with Duggan. But Dibiase is well above a lot of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Rude, Tito and Valentine (by your criteria) I'd say are bigger slam dunks than Jake and possibly Dibiase as well. Rick Rude cannot be apart of this list. Christ, yeah don't know what I was thinking of on that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVZ Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 After Hogan, I would list DiBiase, Steamboat, and Jake. I'm inclined to say Sargent Slaughter belongs. He was missing from the WWF for much of this time period but he had the legendary feud with the Iron Sheik on one end, the Iraqi sympathizer storyline at the other, and I think he is ahead of guys like Tito, Valentine, and Orndorff in terms of mainstream name recognition. But much of his fame comes from outside of the WWF or wrestling in general so he might not be the best for for this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Google hits are interesting here. The top guys I found were Dibiase and Sheik, though nicknames make it a little tricky especially for a guy like Jake who looks to be on the next tier with Duggan. But Dibiase is well above a lot of others. Some of those will be false positives from his son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hulk Hogan, Ted Dibiase, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, King Kong Bundy and Ricky Steamboat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Jake instead of Bundy. I would put Bundy on my list if Hogan was excluded from consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Google hits are interesting here. The top guys I found were Dibiase and Sheik, though nicknames make it a little tricky especially for a guy like Jake who looks to be on the next tier with Duggan. But Dibiase is well above a lot of others. Some of those will be false positives from his son. You're right, and the Million Dollar Man search would give false positives for Steve Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think in real terms it's .... Ted - big star from the period, big gimmick, big angles. Jake - very memorable and very over with casual audience, for whatever reason. Iron Sheik - massively boosted by 1. winning the belt. 2. weird Vince propaganda to get him over as huge figure in history. 3. cult status through shoots Steamboat - arguably he made his name outside of WWF, but rub from Flair-Steamboat constantly being put over as GOAT series by WWE and hardcores AND Savage WM3 match puts him over Jim Duggan - he was a bigger celebrity than Tito, Greg or Rude. Appearances on TV like ALF or whatever. Always over with live crowds. Merch. Several runs in the 90s and 00s ensure the kids know who he is. Probably those five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Rude, Tito and Valentine (by your criteria) I'd say are bigger slam dunks than Jake and possibly Dibiase as well.Don't think so as none of those guys got as big a push as DiBiase in 87-8 or storylines as big time as buying the belt / evil twin ref / WM4 tournament. Rude has the fact that Hogan wouldn't work with him as a knock. He feels closer to a Mr. Perfect than a Ted. Greg and Tito were strictly IC level. Jake is kind of a special case I think and has a lot of "man on the street" recognisability. If I went to any of my casual non-wrestler friends and asked them to name 5 wrestlers, I reckon Jake would be one of them. 'It has to be for stuff done in the WWF only in Hogan's 2nd run (January 84-WM VIII)' Dibiase I can agree on for the fact that he was pushed from the moment he arrived, and pretty much was always at the top of the card (that's why I said possibly). Jake no. Yes, he might have one of the most recognisable, remembered names from that era, but by the criteria there's not a chance he did more than Tito and Valentine in the period specified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted August 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Duggan did Alf? Please tell me this is online somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think in real terms it's .... Ted - big star from the period, big gimmick, big angles. Jake - very memorable and very over with casual audience, for whatever reason. Iron Sheik - massively boosted by 1. winning the belt. 2. weird Vince propaganda to get him over as huge figure in history. 3. cult status through shoots Steamboat - arguably he made his name outside of WWF, but rub from Flair-Steamboat constantly being put over as GOAT series by WWE and hardcores AND Savage WM3 match puts him over Jim Duggan - he was a bigger celebrity than Tito, Greg or Rude. Appearances on TV like ALF or whatever. Always over with live crowds. Merch. Several runs in the 90s and 00s ensure the kids know who he is. Probably those five. I kind of feel that Sheik was living off his name for most of this. By 1986 he was just a middle of the road act. Bundy had the appearance on Married With Children and the programs with Hogan and The Machines. He also squished that midget at Mania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted August 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Jake is an interesting case. He main evented with Andre for a run, and had random main events off and on throughout the era. Tito and Valentine were done as draws after WM 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I also think that the guys from the 84-6 period got less main stream exposure than the guys from the 87-9 period. That's because Vince had all of his machinery together by 87-9 whereas he was building it in the 84-6 period while the boom was taking place. Even if, say, 86 was doing bigger business than 89 in the gates, I think someone around in 89 had more of a sense of being famous and a star than someone around in 86. This is the thing that hurts a Tito or a Greg. They are remembered for the JTTS phase of their careers more than their peak because it's the 1989 verson of WWF, rather than the 1985-6 version that people remember more. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Google hits are interesting here. The top guys I found were Dibiase and Sheik, though nicknames make it a little tricky especially for a guy like Jake who looks to be on the next tier with Duggan. But Dibiase is well above a lot of others. Some of those will be false positives from his son. You're right, and the Million Dollar Man search would give false positives for Steve Austin. Suddenly surprised THAT'S not where they were headed with the Ringmaster gimmick! Though to be fair, JR, and the t-shirt guys, did briefly try to push "Bionic Redneck" as an Austin nickname, but it seemed way to esoteric for audiences of the late 1990s-early 2000s. I'm pretty sure that elicited quite a bunch of "WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN!?"s in Raw Recaps when Ross dropped it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I also think that the guys from the 84-6 period got less main stream exposure than the guys from the 87-9 period. That's because Vince had all of his machinery together by 87-9 whereas he was building it in the 84-6 period while the boom was taking place. Even if, say, 86 was doing bigger business than 89 in the gates, I think someone around in 89 had more of a sense of being famous and a star than someone around in 86. This is the thing that hurts a Tito or a Greg. They are remembered for the JTTS phase of their careers more than their peak because it's the 1989 verson of WWF, rather than the 1985-6 version that people remember more. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I think it was on an Exile on Badstreet where someone made the argument than 1989 Bushwhackers were bigger STARS than 1989 Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Just as an example, we interviewed Tito on Titans last year and no one really batted an eyelid. I think there would be more of a "holy shit!" on any of Ted, Jake, Duggan, Steamer, or even Sheiky baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think in real terms it's .... Ted - big star from the period, big gimmick, big angles. Jake - very memorable and very over with casual audience, for whatever reason. Iron Sheik - massively boosted by 1. winning the belt. 2. weird Vince propaganda to get him over as huge figure in history. 3. cult status through shoots Steamboat - arguably he made his name outside of WWF, but rub from Flair-Steamboat constantly being put over as GOAT series by WWE and hardcores AND Savage WM3 match puts him over Jim Duggan - he was a bigger celebrity than Tito, Greg or Rude. Appearances on TV like ALF or whatever. Always over with live crowds. Merch. Several runs in the 90s and 00s ensure the kids know who he is. Probably those five. Can we really put Sheiky Baby in the Hulkamania "era" though. Yeah he was on the cartoon, but he was in the tag team with Volkoff, and then fired soon after because of getting caught doing weed with Duggan. And when he returned, his character name was changed (I don't think they've ever reconciled that Iron Shiek-Col. Mustafa are one and the same in official cannon/record books, ditto Glenn Jaccobs' other characters (joked about though in the Issac Yankem entry of a Countdown episode) or Rikishi as The Sultan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yeah but the Holy shit factor to Sheik is the fact that he's insane now. Going on radio shows in the late 90s and 00s and just being an absolute maniac has made him a bigger name today than he would have been otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 It's not just the shoot stuff with Sheik, WWE has CONSISTENTLY listed him as one of their top stars ever in their version of history. He's always in their top 50 lists. He's alwyas in montages and things. I even made a thread about it before. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/20784-iron-sheik/ While I was away I rewatched many of the Legends of Wrestling roundtable shows. If you recall the first 6 of these showcased "Superstars of the 80s". Let me remind you of the guys to whom they dedicated 30 mins or so each: Terry Funk Roddy Piper Hulk Hogan Bob Backlund Andre the Giant Jerry Lawler JYD Ric Flair Sgt. Slaughter It's very difficult to quibble with these selections. They all make sense. These were the biggest stars of the 80s or the most talented. It's a very fair representation. We might put cases forward for other people to be included ahead of these 9. I can see an argument for Dusty, for example. Piper and Slaughter may have some competition, but they are not at all controversial people to cover. Who is the 10th star they featured? That's right, it was Iron Sheik. Why is Sheiky Baby deserving of such lofty company? It doesn't end there. The Official WWE sanctioned Top 50 list that got Matysik so hot under the collar lists Iron Sheik at 31. One place ahead of Jimmy Snuka. Above Mick Foley, Kurt Angle, Jack Brisco, Sgt. Slaughter, Nick Bockwinkel, Dory Funk Jr. and Bob Backlund who is at 47. He was ushered into the WWE Hall of Fame fairly swiftly. Now, I'm wondering, does Sheiky have secret photos of Vince caught having man-sex with Pat Patterson? Vince re-hired Sheik on no less than 4 different occasions, despite his trouble with the law and drugs. He gave him a fairly inexplicable high profile role in 1991. Since the 2000s, Iron Sheik has been in every video game going, got his own action figure, and so on. WHY? I don't really get this at all. The WWE own wrestling history. They own all the footage. There are clear legends in wrestling history. So why do they seem so intent on spinning this myth that the Iron Sheik was this legend on par with the greats? It's quite bizarre. Ivan Koloff or even Superstar Graham do not enjoy this treatment. Iron Sheik's sole claim to fame in the "all-time" stakes is being the guy Hogan beat for the belt. That one moment is elevating him an awfully high way. In the official WWE sanctioned version of history, Iron Sheik is one of the wrestling gods. In reality he was essentially a career midcarder (or upper midcarder at best) who was in the right place at the right time to be a transitional champ for a month and from there became a JTTS within 3 years. Anyone got any ideas about possible explanations for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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