Meltz updates the Smackdown title situation:

[sek69]

If Rey/Eddie hit or came close to four stars, there's a reason for that. And that reason will be missing from any Rey/Show match.

[Loss]

I said Eddy came close to getting **** out of the Big Show, so I think Rey could as well.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

After one of their matches, Show used Rey as a baseball bat against the ring post. I would hope they don't feud again.

 

I think a submission finisher could work. I'm sure Rey could manage flying armbars, flying triangles and rolling calf crushes especially in a worked environment. He could springboard off the ropes and rather than do a but drop get a triangle and then either pin them or roll and choke them out for the tap.

 

If he faced Taker the feud can write itself: Rey uses the move effectively against some jobbers on SD. Eventually Rey and UT are in a tag match, first time Rey tries his flying triangle on Taker it doesn't work, he gets powerbombed with a modified Last Ride and Taker has a non title victory over him. Second time round in their singles match, Rey goes to jump at UT with a springboard off the ropes, gets the triangle, hooks the back of UT's leg leg, almost has Taker tap but he reaches the ropes. Next time he does it following the obligatory ref bump Taker gets a chokeslam and almost pins Rey. Final time Rey goes for his new move, he nails it, Taker lurches down with his weight and Rey reaches to sink the choke by grabbing the back of his head and just as he reaches to hook Taker's leg, UT reverses and stands straight up, lifts Rey up for the same powerbomb... but this time Rey switches to the flying armbar Gail Kim style and wins by Taker tap out. Throw in some zombie sit ups, an Old School rope walk, Rey's version which will either be a huracanrana or DDT that will be tagged by Michael Cole as the "New School", someone hitting/jumping over the stairs/steel post/steel steps/going through a table/a cute spot involving the guard rail and Rey, a lot of chop blocks, dropkicks and kicks to the legs that are no sold, some Taker soupbones, Taker going for his own version of Rey's triangle where he just catches them running into the corner (Rey would obviously be right by the ropes), a jumping clothesline, a 619 and you have a match. Huzzah for Rey and his continuing reign!

 

I like weed.

[Loss]

It helps that Rey is also really awesome on the mat, but spends most of his time in the air because that's a large part of what got him over. So he knows how to work that style quite well.

[sek69]

Would the fans accept Rey as a submission guy after how many years of being trained to expect all Mexican wrestlers (and Rey specifically) as a high flyer?

[goodhelmet]

That's why you have the vignettes. You train them to accept the fact he added to his game... that it was the missing element from being world champion.

[Guest Cam Chaos]

Would the fans accept Rey as a submission guy after how many years of being trained to expect all Mexican wrestlers (and Rey specifically) as a high flyer?

They stretch guys in Mexico too. You'll see abdominal stretches, camel clutches, octopus holds, armbars, chinlocks, headlocks, chokes, surfboards, all legitimate nasty shit when not featured on wrestling.

[sek69]

Right, but are there submission based Lucha guys? I'm asking because I've never seen any Lucha guys use a submission for a finish but admittedly my exposure to Mexico is limited.

[goodhelmet]

Submissions usually finish at least half the lucha matches I watch.

[Loss]

Lucha is MORE matwork than anything else. We've seen luchadores in the US, but the lucha style is really nothing like anything ever done in the US. If the fans accepted Eddy as a mat worker after years as a flyer, they would do the same for Rey.

[sek69]

I'm just trying to consider what the average fan would be thinking if all of a sudden Rey would be busting out submissions.

 

I think it could get over if WWE property educated its fans to accept the new and improved Rey, but we all know you can't count on them to do things correctly.

[Guest Jack D. Ripper]

As long as he continues to fly around, I don't think the general audience would care if he adds a submission that he would only occasionally use against guys like undertaker. Besides, they'd likely be too busy cheering him on against the much larger opponent to think about it.

[Guest SweetMama Scaat]

Everybody form The Rock to Gail Kim to "Big Evil"Taker pulled out submissions and used them in an effective manner, why cant Rey?

 

 

While I personally wouldnt want to see Rey as the main guy, alot of other people would, and it WOULD work. Jus because Rey is small, doesnt mean hes not credible. Have yall ever seen a real fight? Lil guys beat big guys all the time. The simple fact that most of his matches (according to you guys) would be david vs goliath sell themselves. Every long running champion or even najorly over face as had an "opponent gimmick" so to speak. The majority of guys,not all but majority of Hogans opponents were friends who betrayed him (Orndorff,Andre,Savage, Sid etc). Bret Hart would take on anybody cause he was a fighting champion, ranging from Papa Shango to Ric Flair to yokozuna. Austin had Vince Mcmahon and whomever Mcmahon could manipulate agaisnt him; Rock, Foley,Taker, even to a lesser entent patterson and briscoe. If Rey is constantly seen as the underdog his reign could be booked with ease.

 

Hed be up against JBL,Orton, Booker T, Kennedy etc. Mysterio's match style itself, with his crowd support and his Pedro Morales old school babyface outlook on things. If he faced guys on Raw? HHH has had yall thinking that both Tajiti and TAKA MICHINOKU could beat him, why not Rey? Angle? These two have always had great outings when against each other. Summerslam...those battle royales...Chris Masters- Classic speed VS Power match. Carlito? Put these two in a predominatly latin area and have them go at it. Everybody knows that Carlito is Carlos Colons son and Rey is Rey Mysterio JR. If the WWE goes to mexico and/or puerto rico this as a main event would nearly start riots. Think about it.

 

 

The only reason anybody on the net has come up with, on why he couldnt be champ is that, "It wouldnt be beliveable if he fought big guys", Kids thats like taking a fat girl to the bakery and not offering her some Scones, Jus plain outragious.

[Guest Famous Mortimer]

Genki Sudo (154 lbs.) v. Butterbean (370 lbs.), K-1 Dynamite

 

Sudo dances round his big (but still pretty agile opponent, avoiding all the big punches and runs Butterbean tries, then a few seconds into round 2 slaps on a heel hook and gets the win. The possibility of Sudo timing something wrong was always there, but he managed to avoid everything, bided his time and got the win. That's one very simple way to book a Rey Mysterio title win.

[anarchistxx]

Can you really see Undertaker jobbing to Rey? I certainly can't, if he did it certainly wouldn't be clean.

 

If he used the submission move you described, it would be silly that Show wouldn't just power out of it, or drop rey on his head.

 

I love most of Rey's work as much as the next guy, but I just don't see him as a believable Champion.

 

The Eddie/Show match was nowhere near **** when I first saw it. *** tops. I would be immensly shocked if Rey v Show was anywhere near ****.

 

And Butterbean is a fat bastard, unlike Taker. Big Show is a much bigger fat bastard than Butterbean.

[Mad Dog]

And Butterbean is a fat bastard, unlike Taker. Big Show is a much bigger fat bastard than Butterbean.

So? Butterbean is a legit fighter unlike either of those. Genki Sudo isn't anywhere near as built as Misterio is.

 

Misterio has credibly beaten Kevin Nash, Scott Norton and Bam Bam Bigelow. None of them saw a hit to their heat. All Misterio has to do is bounce around the ring and tire them out until getting a quick roll up.

[anarchistxx]

^^^

 

Yeah, but that would get tired after about 3 defences following the same pattern.

[Mad Dog]

That's where smart booking comes in. He can spend a year defending against the non-giants if anyone has half a brain. It's not like Big Show or the Undertaker are anywhere near being title contenders.

[sek69]

That's where smart booking comes in.

There's the fatal flaw in everyone's logic.

[Loss]

Can you really see Undertaker jobbing to Rey? I certainly can't, if he did it certainly wouldn't be clean.

 

If he used the submission move you described, it would be silly that Show wouldn't just power out of it, or drop rey on his head.

 

I love most of Rey's work as much as the next guy, but I just don't see him as a believable Champion.

 

The Eddie/Show match was nowhere near **** when I first saw it. *** tops. I would be immensly shocked if Rey v Show was anywhere near ****.

 

And Butterbean is a fat bastard, unlike Taker. Big Show is a much bigger fat bastard than Butterbean.

Not to be harsh, but fans like yourself are a large part of the reason guys like Eddy Guerrero felt pressured to do things to get bigger.

[sek69]

Guys like Eddie did things to get bigger since Vince makes it clear it's what's required to get a push in WWE.

[Loss]

And also because fans place a premium on size. I've been guilty of it in the past. We all have. Let's kill the mindset before someone else dies.

[Mad Dog]

I'm stunned by how many people have partaken in Vince's kool-aid about how bigger = better. I've seen it a lot lately and I guess I was naive to that thinking. I thought since it was fake size didn't really matter too much. Especially in 2005 when the Gracies have spent the last decade beating up guys twice their size.

[anarchistxx]

I am not encouraging Rey to get bigger. I don't think he should be bigger.

 

I just think that at the size he is, he isn't a legitimate contender for the World Title.

[sek69]

I don't think it's fair to blame the fans, Vince has the hard on for big muscle guys. Smaller guys have successfully gotten over everywhere else. Fans in WCW bought the smaller guys because they weren't having roid monsters pushed down their throat.