Mad Dog Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The idea behind this post is you're given the book for the Diva's division. You can move your talent roster of women around anyway you want and create any angles that you want with creative control. The following conditions are in place for your booking. 1. You have to use the women that are currently signed to the WWE. You can use Kana and you can bring Sara Del Ray into an inring role. But you can't hire anyone for the sake of this post. 2. Bayley can't be brought up until after Wrestlemania. For the sake of this post she's getting a 6-8 month run with the NXT Women's Championship. 3. You can send down people to NXT except for the Bellas. You have to keep the Bellas on the main roster due to their connections but you can move them into non-wrestler on air roles if you so choose. 4. Sasha Banks has to be a heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 One thing I would absolutely have to do if I have to keep her heel is making Sasha the Ric Flair of the division. She gets her stable. She gets the top feuds in the division. She gets the belt as much as the situation warrants it. To be the woman, you have to beat the woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I would prefer to just have a conversation about the Divas division than to veer off into fantasy booking territory. Since I don't think for one second that I would be able to come up with anything substantial, let alone that played out over weeks of television & had any long-distance drawing power or effect. I think WWE needs to build the entire division around Sasha. Not Paige. Not Nikki. Certainly not Charlotte. Sasha needs to be the "chosen one." And she should be running through women like Brie, Naomi, Alicia that are obviously leagues below her in terms of talent & readiness. The fact that Nikki is still the champion & that this "revolution" all is because Stephanie McMahon wanted change but is still all about the Bellas says it all. That's not any sort of revolution, no matter how many times you beat us over the head & hit us with buzzwords. Paige & the Bellas blowing up on social media just shows the mentality that they have. They don't get it. They never will. Respect isn't something you're given just for showing up, it's something that is earned. If you go out there & shit it up, don't blame the fans for turning on you. How about not working a five to eight minute boring ass beatdown segment from the Bellas on Charlotte, in a match right after we're told wins & losses don't matter, featuring a bunch of headlock rest holds & commercial breaks. There was no way that match was going to succeed. We don't need teams. We don't need stables. We need characters with depth & motivations. Why is Sasha the Boss? Don't tell us, show us. What is Charlotte's character other than daughter of Ric Flair? She doesn't even DO anything but yell "Woo!" What about Paige, or The Bellas? None of them have any fucking character. They're just "catty woman #1" and "catty woman #2." Wrestling in throwaway segments that don't mean shit. People cared about Bayley Vs. Sasha because they knew who the characters were. They watched them grow in NXT. They knew their motivations. That's why there was emotion & people cared. The match being great was the cherry on top. On RAW, why do we care about any of these women, or these multi-person matches? Why do we care who wins or loses? Why are any of them even there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodySave Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 One factor I haven't seen brought up hardly at all in the discussions about the divas matches, booking, Diva Revolution, etc. is the TV show Total Divas. The Bellas are by far the stars of the show, and as long as E! Network continues re-upping the show season after season, the Bellas spot on the main roster is certainly solidified beyond political connections. Nattie & Eva Marie are also huge parts of the show. Many of us may not watch it on a regular basis, but my wife loves the show and she could give a damn less about watching wrestling on TV in the 13 years we've been together. Because of that show, she now actually looks forward to & attended a live WWE event awith me, as well as voluntarily watched Summerslam. She's up in arms that "Trinity" AKA Naomi isn't getting more use because she was so likable on the first few season of the Total Divas. She doesn't know any of the newer NXT divas at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Just break up the groups. Give us a reason to cheer or boo the individuals. Right now they're all fighting for a Divas Revolution. So they're all fighting for the same thing, why should we care who wins? None of the new girls have defined characters on the main roster. And cramming nine girls into one match to get them all a spot is what they've been doing for years in WrestleMania Divas matches. It's a holdover from the old era. You want to get serious, have an important Divas title match between the champion and ONE challenger and let them go. Right now it's all lip service. Show, don't tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I would prefer to just have a conversation about the Divas division than to veer off into fantasy booking territory. Since I don't think for one second that I would be able to come up with anything substantial, let alone that played out over weeks of television & had any long-distance drawing power or effect. I think WWE needs to build the entire division around Sasha. Not Paige. Not Nikki. Certainly not Charlotte. Sasha needs to be the "chosen one." And she should be running through women like Brie, Naomi, Alicia that are obviously leagues below her in terms of talent & readiness. The fact that Nikki is still the champion & that this "revolution" all is because Stephanie McMahon wanted change but is still all about the Bellas says it all. That's not any sort of revolution, no matter how many times you beat us over the head & hit us with buzzwords. Paige & the Bellas blowing up on social media just shows the mentality that they have. They don't get it. They never will. Respect isn't something you're given just for showing up, it's something that is earned. If you go out there & shit it up, don't blame the fans for turning on you. How about not working a five to eight minute boring ass beatdown segment from the Bellas on Charlotte, in a match right after we're told wins & losses don't matter, featuring a bunch of headlock rest holds & commercial breaks. There was no way that match was going to succeed. We don't need teams. We don't need stables. We need characters with depth & motivations. Why is Sasha the Boss? Don't tell us, show us. What is Charlotte's character other than daughter of Ric Flair? She doesn't even DO anything but yell "Woo!" What about Paige, or The Bellas? None of them have any fucking character. They're just "catty woman #1" and "catty woman #2." Wrestling in throwaway segments that don't mean shit. People cared about Bayley Vs. Sasha because they knew who the characters were. They watched them grow in NXT. They knew their motivations. That's why there was emotion & people cared. The match being great was the cherry on top. On RAW, why do we care about any of these women, or these multi-person matches? Why do we care who wins or loses? Why are any of them even there? You can do both. I just wanted to put some guidelines that we are all working from. From my perspective you can book the division around Sasha and the NXT crowd but you're going to have the Bellas in the mix and some of the old guard. It's just a reality especially with the Bellas and their connections within the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The way I see it. Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, Paige and Emma are all fine from a workrate perspective. I even think Naomi is perfectly fine and I liked, I think it was Will's suggestion to send Alicia down to NXT to get some indy street cred. I think you make Brie an interviewer or something like that. I think stick to more singles matches instead of these multi tags. Honestly, my biggest problem with the division is calling it the Diva's division. I think that is the biggest obstacle to them being taken seriously. I think you need to find a way, even if it's Sasha winning the belt and trashing it, to rebrand it as the Women's division. I just winch every time they say Diva's on TV. It's just such a fucking stupid word. No one relates to that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 The best historical comparison for building a division around one superstar and a group of rotating challengers would be the 1990s New Japan juniors. Should Sasha be Liger? Is there anything that worked there that could be adapted now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 NXT was a good formula for gaining traction. I think Sasha is the face to build around because people seem to be the most interested in her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Some of the basics from NJ juniors that I think might transfer: - They worked the house style, but they also gave you something you weren't going to get in any other spot on the card - They were only rarely mixed with talent outside the division (which isn't as much of a concern here) - They created their own annual, self-contained traditions - They did multi-person matches to help advance storylines with the payoffs coming on the big shows in singles matches (Not exclusive to NJ juniors) - The booking style fit the presentation at large, but it was also different in some key ways. There were less upsets than there were among the NJ heavies of the time and a much sharper sense of hierarchy - Matches usually hit the sweet spot when they were about 15-18 minutes - There was usually more than one match to represent the division on an average card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Oh, and for big shows, they did bring in outside talent, which is far more conceivable for WWE now than it was in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You could use Legends that are still willing to work a match. You could offer people like Trish Stratus a good chunk of money to work with Sasha at Mania or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You can transition to Sasha in the long run but it wouldn't be smart to immediately junk the Bellas now for these wrestlers. For one thing, we don't know if Charlotte and Becky has staying power (Becky probably does but not sure about Charlotte) and Sasha will need "big name" opponents in her first year on the main roster. This is going to sound shitty but like it or not, if Cena is really involved with how Nikki is booked, you can't piss him off for the sake of a few women's wrestlers. Who is more valuable right now and for the next 10 years- John Cena or Sasha Banks? WWE is still a men-dominated company. There is a way to build around Sasha without making Nikki worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Stop calling them divas. Let them have good matches. Build around Sasha. Limit the sucky workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I think they're missing out on Charlotte's potential by not separating her from the pack. Whether she's the top star or not, she's the one who needs the most booking help to maintain some semblance of aura. Charlotte may never be a superworker, but there is something special in how she carries herself and her athleticism that could make that not matter at all, as long as her matches are carefully laid out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I don't how many people her have seen Charlotte live in NXT but her charisma is absolutely off the charts. Live you forgive all the shit she isn't good at because the buy in is there. The first time I saw her live I wanted to see her again. I think having her as a part of the pack and not in singles hurts her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 She's the perfect example of what people are talking about when they mention focusing on strengths and hiding weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Here's another. I think sadly that her time has passed in terms of potential to be a top star, but they should get Nattie back in the ring ASAP. She should be the bridge in all of this -- the one who is part of the old group who can give the new group exactly the types of matches they need. She's the vet. They need to try to recreate Charlotte-Nattie on Raw at some point. Even if it's not as good as the original, I'd still expect it to be good and a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVsMatt Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I definitely agree with earlier sentiments from this thread. I'm sure the defense of "Divas" from WWE's standpoint is that it's a corollary to "Superstars" for the men, but here's a crazy idea: if you want to legitimize your women's division, maybe just also call them "Superstars", since it's already gender neutral! I just really don't think it would be that confusing or difficult. It's a little thing, but it matters; it drives my wife up the damn wall every time they say "Diva", because in her words "No one who has ever called me or one of my friends a diva meant it as a good thing." There needs to be more than one women's match on major cards and most of the longer from TV programming (certainly Raw), and they need to be singles matches. It's getting frustrating watching match after match of 3 v 3 v 3 nonsense when most of the women in those matches could do solid work if they weren't relegated to 2 minutes of an 18 minute match. I think Sasha should be the cornerstone of the division, ala Flair as was mentioned earlier. She's easily the best worker of the bunch, and in my opinion I think she's great at elevating the people she works with to her level. Part of me is bummed that she'd have to take the belt from Nikki at this point, because conventional booking logic would dictate after having such a long run with a heel as champ there should be a face run, but Sasha's character wouldn't work for at least a year or more as a face (I'm picturing a Stone Cold thing, where the character is more or less unchanged but the fans root for the "heelish" behavior - I know that's kind of a limited and specific example that I'm not even sure would work). Since we're in crazy fantasy booking land, part of me feels like you could transition the Bellas to be faces - I feel like audiences might not go for it, but the old "veterans trying to hold their own against the young guns" storyline can be used for faces, I'd argue. I guess at the end of the day, my crazy ideas is just book them like you book the men. I mean, WWE's booking doesn't work for me gigantic chunks of the time, but at least they give the men some semblance of identifiable character - everything I know about the women on the main roster is what I picked up while some of them were in NXT, with the rest being more or less enigmas. What are Tamina's goals? Why did Alicia team up with the Bellas, especially given how much more likely the two of them are to turn on her than each other? How do Naomi's light-up shoes tie in to anything? I'm not saying these are the most compelling ideas or questions (and yes, the last one is a joke), but I feel like these are things we would know about male wrestlers in similar storylines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I think Charlotte has a lot of tools to succeed but I feel like there is something missing that I can't put a finger on...and I feel like whatever it is could be fatal to her if she doesn't fix it. I mean fatal as in never being able to break out on her own and have a good long career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I saw her wrestle Bayley at the first show I went to and the match structure wasn't amazing but they just had this face paced super athletic match and it had the crowd absolutely molten hot for everything they were doing. The second time was her against Sasha and Sasha just beat the shit out of her for like 20 minutes and the crowd was dying for the Charlotte comeback and she sold the beating like an absolute champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 The division needs to be built around Sasha. And that doesn't mean that she needs to be champ, but the visible top of the division. The heel champ who the face challenger chases, the non-champ heel who the new babyface has to get through to get to the champ, the top star who the champ has to beat to prove they are legitimate, etc. They need to establish clear heel/face dynamics. Sasha, Emma, Alicia, and Nikki are all fine heels. Charlotte, Nattie, Becky, and then eventually Bayley can function fine as the faces. Paige and Naomi seem like they could easily pull off the heel who doesn't know they're a heel sort of approach. Those women need to be the division, then maybe work in Kana, Alexa Bliss, and Dana Brooke when they are more ready. Summer Rae, Brie, Lana, Cameron, Tamina, etc. need to be kept out of wrestling roles. Valets, or enforcer for Tamina, should be their roles. Keep the division as the women's division and build feuds that are about the women as characters and not as bitchy Vince ideals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVsMatt Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I do think Charlotte has something special too (my original post just got...a little long), but I'm worried they aren't going to find a suitable opponent for her. Sasha and Becky have both proven to be good opponents in the past, but I wonder if they don't want to go that route because of the NXT history. A weird part of me kind of thinks Charlotte could drag some decent out of Tamina, in kind of a Ric Flair vs Vader way (doubtful it would actually be on that level, but that style of match). Honestly, though, maybe someone to bounce her charisma off of would be better, in which case you'd probably go with Nikki. I actually feel like booking Tamina is one of the harder tasks in the division, because there's no one who can match her size or power moves. They might need to bring in someone new to give her a decent run if they ever decide's that a route they want to take - someone like Alpha Female or another power/brawling-based wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd take Tamina out of the ring and make her a bodyguard for Bo Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I don't follow the WWE closely, but general problems with the Divas division are: - It's very hard to tell who the heels and faces are. Someone cuts a bitchy promo, so I think they're a heel. Then they seem to be wrestling babyface during the match. The audience don't seem sure how to react either, so it's no wonder there isn't much heat. Don't tell me that heels and faces don't matter in 2015 either. It's a fundamental component of all wrestling outside of Japan. - The characters all seem to be derived from a template of jealous, mentally unstable, catty chicks who despise all other females. The way they act on the shows is so far removed from real women it's ridiculous. If they actually had their own personalities and motivations then the audience would relate to them and care what happens. - The wrestling quality. They work the same style as the men with less proficiency. Obviously the roster could be improved. Or if they were allowed to work a different style that would immediately make things more interesting. - Lack of good matches. They've either short, very short or medium length. They aren't given the opportunity to produce memorable matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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