Essential Joshi viewing?

[KobASHi]

Never watched a Joshi match in my life. What are the essentials? Want to try something new.

[Jingus]

There's folks on here who know MUCH more about joshi than I do, so I won't make any specific match recommendations. But to those who do the recommending: I'd say don't start with Nagayo/Matsumoto or Hokotu/Kandori. Those always seem to be the first ones recommended, despite the fact that they do tend to rely rather heavily upon knowledge of the style of the time and other intangibles. Start him off easy with like a mid-level match with, like, Manami versus an Inoue from some non-dome-show instead. Probably something less than half an hour long, too. (I wish that Aja Kong vs Chapparita Asari match that happened on Raw of all damn places was still online, I love hearing Vince audibly cringe on commentary at the brutal physicality that he clearly wasn't expecting.)

[WingedEagle]

Hokuto/Kandori and the Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki tags are probably the tops of most lists, but you don't want to start at the pinnacle. I'd check out an Ozaki or Bull singles match that's not too long or epic as I feel they're both immediately accessible to new eyes. One possibility is Oz & Kansai vs. Takako Inoue & Yumiko Hotta (JWP - 1/15/93). Not a sprint, but if you can't get into that right away maybe its not something you'll love?

[GSR]

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28639-so-joshi-as-promised/

[supremebve]

My advice is don't start with Manami Toyota. She is the first person who I heard about, and almost wrote off Joshi as a style, because of her go go go style. I figured if she was the best Joshi wrestler, I wasn't going to enjoy the style. She is probably my least favorite Joshi wrestlers in singles matches, but she far more tolerable in tags. If I could go back again I'd start with some Bull Nakano. The Hotta cage match from 1/23/91 or the Hokuto match from 1/4/91 are a couple of my favorites.

[Loss]

I think the 80s are the ideal place to start, although I do agree that the Chigusa-Dump series probably isn't the best first match to watch. Definitely don't start with Manami Toyota! Do not, do not, do not! Some of those matches are exceptional, but Chigusa-Dump is the type of match you're not going to see more than once or twice in a generation. Wrestlers to look out for in the 80s include the Jumping Bomb Angels, Crush Girls, Devil Masami, Jaguar Yokota, Yukari Ohmori, Dump Matsumoto and Mimi Hagiwara. That's an interesting cross-section of names and styles.

 

- If you like Memphis wrestling or the bleeding/brawling garbage style, Dump matches are a good place to start

- If you want to watch stuff that looks modern from 30 years ago, something like Chigusa-Devil from 8/22/85 is a classic, and Chigusa Nagayo and Jaguar Yokota are your spirit animals

- If you like The Young Bucks, you'd probably like the Jumping Bomb Angels. You won't get the humor or postmodernism there, but I think the athletic appeal is similar

- If you like more traditional championship matches, Yumi Ogura vs Kazue Nagahori from 3/86 is great

- If you prefer a more conservative wrestling style, check out JWP 1.0 from 1986-1991. Sadly, the recommendations I have at this point aren't as specific as I'd like (that will change!), but it's a lot of solid 10-15 minute matches that won't change your world, but won't disappoint you either

 

Start in one or two of those places that best matches your tastes and then I will be happy to help anyone customize a path that works for them to get through the 1990s.

 

I've also decided to bite the bullet and start wading through post-2005 Joshi to look for all the stuff worth seeing. I'm expecting to be disappointed with most shows, but I think the rare gems will make it all worth it.

[Mad Dog]

I'm not calling it a classic or anything but there's a pretty enjoyable Bull Nakano vs. Monster Ripper match on Youtube.

[El-P]

Funny. 20-15 years ago, the first name that would have been thrown would have been Manami Toyota. I'm not her biggest fan, I find her quite flawed, but still, when I read "don't start with Manami Toyota", it kinda rings like "don't start with Kenta Kobashi" or "don't start with Ric Flair" to my hears. (and yeah, before someone asks, Flair is a go-go-go worker to me)

 

Hell, get Dreamslam 1 & 2. Yeah, that's a boring recommandation. They also probably are two of the greatest pro-wrestling card to to bottom to this day, so… To me the 90's are easier to get into if you're familiar with modern puroresu. 80's Zenjo is more niche, with the screaming schoolgirls audience and stuff.

[Loss]

The thing is ... if you start with the very best stuff, it's all downhill from there. And Toyota is an acquired taste. It took me a while to "get" her, and for some reason, there's often a perception that she's the bellwether for the style.

[supremebve]

Funny. 20-15 years ago, the first name that would have been thrown would have been Manami Toyota. I'm not her biggest fan, I find her quite flawed, but still, when I read "don't start with Manami Toyota", it kinda rings like "don't start with Kenta Kobashi" or "don't start with Ric Flair" to my hears. (and yeah, before someone asks, Flair is a go-go-go worker to me)

 

Hell, get Dreamslam 1 & 2. Yeah, that's a boring recommandation. They also probably are two of the greatest pro-wrestling card to to bottom to this day, so… To me the 90's are easier to get into if you're familiar with modern puroresu. 80's Zenjo is more niche, with the screaming schoolgirls audience and stuff.

Yeah, that is kind of my point with Toyota(except the Flair part). I'd advise you watch some of the other highly touted Joshi wrestlers to get a feel for the variations in the style, before you watch a crazy Toyota match. Once you see how some of the other women work, her style kind of makes more sense. Bull Nakano and Aja Kong are great as the monsters. Kansai and Hotta bring the stiff strikes and suplexes. Hokuto and Oz are great at being just mean, tough, chicks who don't give a fuck. Toyota's style is almost like the only way a woman with her size and demeanor could possibly contend with these other workers. She has to hit hard and fast, over and over again or the rest of those women will beat her within an inch of her life. My biggest issue with Toyota is that she doesn't sell anything long term. You could hit her with a superplex off of the hell in a cell onto an exploding bed of nails, and she'd get up and hit a series of running dropkicks like nothing happened. Her matches have a low ceiling for me, because of her lack of selling, but they aren't necessarily bad.

[El-P]

The thing is ... if you start with the very best stuff, it's all downhill from there.

 

Well, I'd rather watch the best stuff, really. If you die the next day, well… And it worked for me, so...

[Loss]

I don't see how you fully appreciate what's great without knowing what "average" or "good" looks like first.

[Zenjo]

I've also decided to bite the bullet and start wading through post-2005 Joshi to look for all the stuff worth seeing. I'm expecting to be disappointed with most shows, but I think the rare gems will make it all worth it.

You'll find that the gems are indeed rare. I also fear that their carat and cut won't make the endeavour worthwhile. But GL if you're brave enough to step into the dead zone.

 

For the OP you'll be fine watching most matches that people recommend from the Yearbook threads. Or even just viewing some random AJW from Youtube. You'll soon get a general idea of what the style is like. I loved it from the first moment I saw it. Other people can't get into at all for various reasons. I'd say it's worth giving a serious go as the rewards are so potentially great.

[ohtani's jacket]

I would recommend using Mike Lorefice's Recommended Matches page to go through what were historically the most recommended 90s matches. You can also find El-P's wonderful 1992 write-up on the same page. I got some comps made from list and it remains one of my favourite bits of wrestling writing.

 

http://www.quebrada.net/matches.html

 

A good place to start would be Kyoko Inoue/Takako Inoue vs. Mayumi Ozaki/Cuty Suzuki from Dream Slam 1 (4/2/93.) It's an enjoyable, well-worked match that is purely about the style. To me it's the perfect primer.

[Tabe]

I would say watch the two Dreamslam shows and then the two classics from 8/22/85. You'll get a nice range of match quality and workers, along with some all-time great matches.

[Jingus]

I started joshi with Manami, and had no problems getting into her matches and getting further into the style.

[Loss]

The point is that a lot of people here have started with her and have been scared away. So instead of scaring more people who have the same tastes away, perhaps it's better to recommend great Joshi that more closely resembles wrestling that people already like, at least to start. Something slower paced with more selling and typical structure.

[KobASHi]

Thanks for the suggestions. I started with what I assume is Dreamslam I. It features Tori from the WWF in it (looking a right state). So currently up to Chigusa/Masami. Masami is a heel right? She must be, she looks so heel.

[MJH]

Whilst I get the point people are making about Toyota, I don't see how the Aja Big Egg match, for example, would make anything but a strong impression. It's short, a big show, strong heat, strong spots, very simple and recognisable structure... my 12 y/o nephew was curious about it, I stuck that on, and he dug the hell out of it.

 

As a stand-alone match I think Dan's call for the DS1 tag is a good shout and that's a match I've often heard as being people's favourite on the show the first time they watch it. Hokuto/Kyoko from Dream Rush falls into the same category.

 

As far as full shows go, it has to be Dream Slam. Maybe Dream Rush, maybe even St. Final.

 

(I'd recommend starting with the 92-94 boom simply because we have the whole run available chronologically, including the girls' evolution from late '90/91 and the aftermath to 97. The '80s is harder to navigate as an overall product.)

[El-P]

You can also find El-P's wonderful 1992 write-up on the same page. I got some comps made from list and it remains one of my favourite bits of wrestling writing.

 

http://www.quebrada.net/matches.html

 

Damn. I had no idea this was still online. I probably posted it at the old Smarkchoice board too back then. Man, I was brutal with some of those matches (poor Manami) !

 

I had done the same thing with 1993 actually, as I bought a lot of *tapes* from Lynch (last time I spent a dime on pro-wrestling too). I had some notes ready and stuff. And then, well, life…

[Loss]

Whilst I get the point people are making about Toyota, I don't see how the Aja Big Egg match, for example, would make anything but a strong impression. It's short, a big show, strong heat, strong spots, very simple and recognisable structure... my 12 y/o nephew was curious about it, I stuck that on, and he dug the hell out of it.

 

As a stand-alone match I think Dan's call for the DS1 tag is a good shout and that's a match I've often heard as being people's favourite on the show the first time they watch it. Hokuto/Kyoko from Dream Rush falls into the same category.

 

As far as full shows go, it has to be Dream Slam. Maybe Dream Rush, maybe even St. Final.

 

(I'd recommend starting with the 92-94 boom simply because we have the whole run available chronologically, including the girls' evolution from late '90/91 and the aftermath to 97. The '80s is harder to navigate as an overall product.)

 

For people who often criticize matches because the arm/leg work didn't go anywhere or because there wasn't enough selling, I just don't think this is the best path in.

[MJH]

My reasoning behind St. Final was that Aja/Kudo did well on the Yearbook as I recall, better than its initial rep next to Hokuto/Kandori 2 and the 3WA Tag (without it having been ignored as such by any means), and I think in part due to its difference.

 

I agree that one needs a basic knowledge of the backstory for Hokuto/Kandori (or will benefit from having it), but something like the Dream Rush tag...? That's as self explanatory as wrestling gets, isn't it? Granted, there's no limb work, and the work is fast and furious, but, at the end of the day, Zenjo's style was a sprint one and if it's an Andersons tag you're after... you wouldn't hand out a Rings DVD at a Dragon Gate show and say "this'll be right up your street".

[donsem43]

Start off with Aja vs. Toyota at the Dome, Kyoko vs. Hokuto at Dream Rush, and Kyoko/Takako vs. Oz/ Cuty matches that gives you good sample of what to expect. Then look through the yearbook section to find stuff that might fit what your personal tastes a bit more then go from there. 90's is the best place to start because it has a clear listing of what out there for stuff to watch, unlike the 80's or even the '00.