dkookypunk43 Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 My top 20 wrestlers in the world right now 20) Finn Balor 19) Jay Lethal 18) Marty Scurill 17) Tommy End 16) Timothy Thatcher 15) Chris Hero 14) Cesaro 13) Kenny Omega 12) Tanahashi 11) KUSHIDA 10) Kyle O'Reilly 9) Will Ospray 8) Seth Rollins 7) Nakamura 6) Roddy Strong 5) Pentagon Jr 4) Matt Sydal 3) AJ Styles 2) Zach Sabre Jr 1) Kazuchika Okada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 No order. Not even certain they would be my Top 20 in a week. Roderick Strong AJ Styles Chris Hero KUSHIDA Cesaro John Cena Timothy Thatcher Drew Galloway AR Fox Roman Reigns Sasha Banks Luke Harper Mike Bailey Biff Busick Drew Gulak Dragon Lee II Kamataichi Brock Lesnar Daniel Bryan Fenix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Order changes a lot, but right now, 1. Timothy Thatcher 2. Chris Hero 3. Virus 4. Dragon Lee 5. Sasha Banks 6. Roderick Strong 7. Drew Gulak 8. Kairi Hojo 9. Pentagon Jr. 10. Joe Gacy 11. Biff Busick 12. Io Shirai 13. Kamaitachi 14. Cesaro 15. Luke Harper 16. Mil Muertes 17. Roman Reigns 18. Asuka 19. Mike Bailey 20. Frankie Pickard So, massive oversight on my part, forgot about Akiyama, Akebono, and Miyahara. Let's go with this list instead, 1. Timothy Thatcher 2. Chris Hero 3. Virus 4. Dragon Lee 5. Jun Akiyama 6. Sasha Banks 7. Roderick Strong 8. Drew Gulak 9. Akebono 10. Kairi Hojo 11. Pentagon Jr. 12. Joe Gacy 13. Biff Busick 14. Io Shirai 15. Kamaitachi 16. Cesaro 17. Kento Miyahara 18. Luke Harper 19. Mil Muertes 20. Roman Reigns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Is Akebono that good? I haven't seen an Akebono match in more than half a decade and back then he wasn't very good. What should I watch? I'm intrigued because I always liked his character and presence plus I liked him in sumo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 No order. Not even certain they would be my Top 20 in a week. AR Fox I liked your list. AR Fox though was really jarring to me. He's a wrestler I don't get. I know he has cool high spots and stuff, but his psychology to me is the shits. Tell me what you like about him. Maybe I'm missing something. I feel like I can name 200 better wrestlers pretty easy in 2015. I'll toss up a list later so I'm not that guy questioning people's lists without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Is Akebono that good? I haven't seen an Akebono match in more than half a decade and back then he wasn't very good. What should I watch? I'm intrigued because I always liked his character and presence plus I liked him in sumo. I think he's developed into one of the best big men in wrestling (Kongo Kong is the best but I haven't seen enough from him this year). He still has his misses, but when he's on, he's on. I'd highly recommend his matches this year against Miyahara, Akiyama, and any of his tags that involved Xceed or Burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 20.) Neville or Luke Harper 19.) Luke Harper or Neville 18.) Mil Muertes 17.) Jay Briscoe 16.) Finn Bàlor 15.) Jay Lethal 14.) Kalisto 13.) Kota Ibushi 12.) Kevin Owens 11.) Pentagon, Jr. 10.) Roman Reigns 09.) Sasha Banks 08.) Prince Puma 07.) A.J. Styles 06.) Cesaro 05.) Hiroshi Tanahashi 04.) Shinsuke Nakamura 03.) John Cena 02.) Seth Rollins 01.) Kazuchika Okada Looking at my list, I see Cena is gone, Rollins is hurt. Neville, Harper & Sasha never get to really do anything on the main roster. Lucha Underground needs to hurry-up & come back. NJPW needs some fresh match-ups. ROH still has talent but hasn't been what it was to me since about 2005. I can't stand Roderick Strong, he really bores me. I don't like Adam Cole either. Also not high on Timothy Thatcher's style. Akebono, to me, is the drizzling shits. Last I saw of him he could barely walk without almost falling over - I would really question how he miraculously became good. Haven't seen much of Zach Sabre, Jr. Just learned about him about a month ago, actually. I remember asking Loss about him on Twitter because he was unknown to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 Akebono as a top 20 wrestler is insane. Is that list supposed to be in order? Him being so much higher than Miyahara is jarring. If I were doing a WKO-esque 2015 top twenty it would probably look something like this (no order to it btw): Dragon Lee Negro Casas Virus Kamaitachi Atlantis Pentagon Jr. Zack Sabre Jr. Roderick Strong Shuji Ishikawa Kota Ibushi Shinsuke Nakamura AJ Styles Brock Lesnar John Cena Tomohiro Ishii Meiko Satomura Chris Hero Mil Muertes Minoru Suzuki Shibata Roman Reigns Haven't watched BOLA yet and have seeen very little Evolve and zero Revolution Pro. Out of the WWE guys mentioned Cesaro, Harper and Neville have done very little for me. Should also note I'd strongly consider Bryan since I thought he was clearly the best wrestler in the world before the injury. edit: I could swear I typed out Akiyama's name but somehow he isn't here. Also forgot Ricochet existed. And now that I counted it again it looks like my list has 21 people. Oh well. It's late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 1. Strong 2. Styles 3.Hero 4.Thatcher 5. Busick 6. Gulak 7. Dragon Lee 8.Okada 9.Sabre Jr 10.Cesaro 11.Reigns 12. Ibushi 13. O'Reilly 14.Galloway 15.Cena 16.Sasha Banks 17.Mike Bailey 18.Luke Harper 19. Goto 20. Dirty Andy Dalton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Tbf now that I think about it Fox probably wouldn't be in my Top 20. Also, I did something closer to my Top 20 of 2015 over Top 20 in the World cause I have no idea how to judge that. You are probably not missing anything with Fox. He can be "business exposing bad". At the same time he can be completely nuts and live up to the idea of a modern day Sabu that he so clearly wants to be. Also, most of my experience with him this year has been live where he has some matches that are hot fire against Colin Delaney and a tag match with Mike Bailey against Colin Delaney/Cheech that melted faces. If you like a wrestler who's just dumb enough to try things then Fox is your guy. That CLEARLY isn't for a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Akebono as a top 20 wrestler is insane. Is that list supposed to be in order? Him being so much higher than Miyahara is jarring. Yep, it's in order. I like Miyahara a lot, but he hasn't been as great as consistently as Bono has been this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Where are all the great Akebono matches and performances? The one Miyahara match? Akiyama carrying him in the Oudou Tournament Final? Shuji Ishikawa carrying him whenever it was they faced off? HIm doing a cool back body drop in the Tenryu 6 man? Him completely shitting the bed in the Champion Carnival final vs Suwama where they both looked like they were barely trained? The Joe Doering Champion Carnival match where they spent half the match on the outside doing nothing even though it was super short? You had a much stronger argument for Titus O'Neil whenever that was. I like Akebono as a base and his physical limitations can provide an interesting dynamic to matches but I'm not seeing where the idea he is this great worker comes from other than you jumping the shark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 It's not just me though; plenty of people have come around on Bono and have loved his work, this year particularly. For instance the matches you are highlighting as carry jobs really aren't. He didn't just hold his own in them, and in something like the Miyahara match he was the driving force behind the match being great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 I haven't seen anyone claim he is that good. I'll acknowledge his improvement but the quality of his matches still largely depends on how his opponents will react to him. Akebono's strenghts are his presense and cut-offs and he doesn't even use them all the time. and in something like the Miyahara match he was the driving force behind the match being great. It's hard to take this statement seriously considering that the match they had last year that got pimped as a japanese MOTY on some places was wrestled when Akebono was sick and could glaringly barely move. Somehow I think Miyahara knew what he was doing in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 I haven't seen anyone claim he is that good. I'll acknowledge his improvement but the quality of his matches still largely depends on how his opponents will react to him. Akebono's strenghts are his presense and cut-offs and he doesn't even use them all the time. and in something like the Miyahara match he was the driving force behind the match being great. It's hard to take this statement seriously considering that the match they had last year that got pimped as a japanese MOTY on some places was wrestled when Akebono was sick and could glaringly barely move. Somehow I think Miyahara knew what he was doing in there. I'm not saying he didn't, nor am I saying Bono carried him. But, it was Bono's pacing and approach that made a good match great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Akebono's "pacing" is just a consequence of the shape he's in and not some great artistic choice(thought if it works for you I guess it doesn't really matter). The only other pace it could've been worked at would be the one he works against Doering, Suwama etc. which they didn't choose for obvious reasons. But I really don't get what you're aiming at saying it and his "approach" made "a good match great". What exactly about his approach was it? That's a pretty vague formulation. And also why wouldn't it have been a great match without it and how do you think they'd have worked it differently for it to be good but not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 20. Dirty Andy Dalton Pete, Link me a couple of matches to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ready_Willing_Gable Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 only alphabetically ordered. selected on basis of in-ring ability AND character value, so your Roddy Strong's, Neville's and O'Reilly's just miss the cut, though I gave Cesaro and Shibata the benefit Adam Cole AJ Styles Asuka Bayley Brock Lesnar Cesaro Dalton Castle Hiroshi Tanahashi Jay Briscoe John Cena Katsuyori Shibata Kazuchika Okada Kevin Owens Kota Ibushi Sami Zayn Sasha Banks Shinsuke Nakamura Tetsuya Naito Tomohiro Ishii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 20. Dirty Andy Dalton Pete, Link me a couple of matches to watch. Will do. Great old school heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Akebono's "pacing" is just a consequence of the shape he's in and not some great artistic choice(thought if it works for you I guess it doesn't really matter). The only other pace it could've been worked at would be the one he works against Doering, Suwama etc. which they didn't choose for obvious reasons. But I really don't get what you're aiming at saying it and his "approach" made "a good match great". What exactly about his approach was it? That's a pretty vague formulation. And also why wouldn't it have been a great match without it and how do you think they'd have worked it differently for it to be good but not great. Miyahara is still a fan of moving through his spots instead of letting them breathe. It's not a negative by any means, but a lot of the time it leaves me thinking that his matches are just good, but not great. Against Bono he wasn't able to do that, as the match was built around Bono's size and his ability to grind Miyahara down and to force Miyahara to employ a more focused plan of attack in trying to chop Bono down. Now, you remove that from the question and Miyahara attacks Bono at his usual faster pace and the result is just Miyahara blitzing through stuff while Bono doesn't do very much. Sure, that could be good if Miyahara puts maximum effort in. But, in this match he works with Bono instead of working around Bono, and the match is all the better for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Andy Dalton Match 1 you really get a feel for his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Dalton is a guy who I've seen live at least 15x and always is in the 2nd or best match on the show unless he's working an ROH dark match. Even then he gets over, and the crowd gets his character. He's one of ACH's best opponents. His size will never allow him to make it in WWE or NJPW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Kongo Kong is the best but I haven't seen enough from him this year. This is someone that I'm interested in checking out. Anything easily available, via YouTube or whatever, that you would recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Miyahara is still a fan of moving through his spots instead of letting them breathe. It's not a negative by any means, but a lot of the time it leaves me thinking that his matches are just good, but not great. Against Bono he wasn't able to do that, as the match was built around Bono's size and his ability to grind Miyahara down and to force Miyahara to employ a more focused plan of attack in trying to chop Bono down. Now, you remove that from the question and Miyahara attacks Bono at his usual faster pace and the result is just Miyahara blitzing through stuff while Bono doesn't do very much. Sure, that could be good if Miyahara puts maximum effort in. But, in this match he works with Bono instead of working around Bono, and the match is all the better for it. Yeah but there was just no way that was going to happen. Also for the pace of the match to work they had to have Miyahara sell Akebono's cut-offs as death. Akebono moving slowly is a given due to his shape, Miyahara putting over his stuff and playing his role to a T isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 In no particular order based on what I have seen. Sasha Banks Shinsuke Nakamura Roman Reigns Dragon Lee Pentagon Jr. Kevin Owens AJ Styles Drew Galloway Mike Bailey Timothy Thatcher Zach Sabre Jr. Chris Hero Jimmy Rave Cesaro Brock Lesnar Roderick Strong Luke Harper Biff Busick John Cena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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