Judy Bagwell Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 The Honkey Tonk man was one of the worst imo, how did anyone expect a gimmick 6 years stale on a wrestler of HTM abilities to get over in 1994? and then the ego maniac wouldnt put over younger talent WTF Jim Niedhart peaked in 88-89 as one half of the Hart Foundation and then spent the rest of his career in gimmick hell and essentially jobbing to the stars, his WCW appearances were always awful, he didnt care and looked like Rosesanne Barr on a bender Ed Leslie had possibly the worst run, someone in WCW hated this man with a passion how else do you explain brain dead gimmick after gimmick. Leslie main eventing Starrcade was like watching your drunk uncle taking his clothes off at a family funeral any others spring to mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakla Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Junkyard Dog had quite a few brief runs in the early 90s Kamala in 1995 Hercules and Warlord in their masked gimmicks Marty Jannetty (during the early 1998 period where WCW signed a ton of old mid carders to fill up Thunder and the B/C shows) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 The Honkey Tonk man was one of the worst imo, how did anyone expect a gimmick 6 years stale on a wrestler of HTM abilities to get over in 1994? and then the ego maniac wouldnt put over younger talent WTF Jim Niedhart peaked in 88-89 as one half of the Hart Foundation and then spent the rest of his career in gimmick hell and essentially jobbing to the stars, his WCW appearances were always awful, he didnt care and looked like Rosesanne Barr on a bender Ed Leslie had possibly the worst run, someone in WCW hated this man with a passion how else do you explain brain dead gimmick after gimmick. Leslie main eventing Starrcade was like watching your drunk uncle taking his clothes off at a family funeral any others spring to mind? You think that giving Ed Leslie 9,000 different gimmicks in WCW is proof of people hating him? If anyone else was as terrible as he was, as many times as he was, they would have been cut before we could even make jokes about him. Between him, John Tenta, and Ray Traylor, they were given so many chances to get over. Those chances were just presented in terrible gimmicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Speaking of the Honky Tonk Man, I asked on Twitter the other day & never got an answer: It seems unlikely to me, but was HTM the first pro-wrestler to use a guitar as a weapon? There had to have been someone before him, surely? Â Also, fun fact, Honky Tonk Man blocked me on Twitter. Â As for the discussion at hand, I always thought it was weird when career WWF midcard guys, like Jim Duggan or Rick Martel would show up to WCW & not even really get used. Like, Rick Martel won the US Title... how many people even remember that? Â The Ultimate Warrior comes to mind of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topropepodcast Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Martel won the TV Title. And it felt like they had decent plans for him until he got hurt. Â Although Duggan beat Austin in like 40 seconds for the US Title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Bagwell Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Duggan beat Austin in like 40 seconds for the US Title. that in a nutshell sums up the hell that WCW became post Hogan and Pre NWO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakla Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 It was interesting that they gave Martel a push like that in 98. To his credit he got in good shape and could clearly still go. Â Tugboat/Typhoon/Shockmaster might be another. Although at this point, the Shockmaster appears to be his most well known gimmick in some circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Funny this topic comes up as we talk about this on the latest Between the Sheets regarding Hennig, Piper, and others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Bagwell Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Funny this topic comes up as we talk about this on the latest Between the Sheets regarding Hennig, Piper, and others is that the latest episode or one yet to be released? what did you make of Hennigs run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Bagwell Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 It was interesting that they gave Martel a push like that in 98. To his credit he got in good shape and could clearly still go. Â Tugboat/Typhoon/Shockmaster might be another. Although at this point, the Shockmaster appears to be his most well known gimmick in some circles. poor old Fred, its like they found a few pieces of costume in Jim Herds old locker chucked him in them and told him to go break a leg. According to wiki WCW attempted to salvage the incident by introducing a new character called The Super Shockmaster. Also portrayed by Ottman, he was presented as The Shockmaster's nephew, and referred to the Shockmaster as "Uncle Fred.". I have no memory of this character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015  It was interesting that they gave Martel a push like that in 98. To his credit he got in good shape and could clearly still go.  Tugboat/Typhoon/Shockmaster might be another. Although at this point, the Shockmaster appears to be his most well known gimmick in some circles. poor old Fred, its like they found a few pieces of costume in Jim Herds old locker chucked him in them and told him to go break a leg. According to wiki WCW attempted to salvage the incident by introducing a new character called The Super Shockmaster. Also portrayed by Ottman, he was presented as The Shockmaster's nephew, and referred to the Shockmaster as "Uncle Fred.". I have no memory of this character  Fred Ottman won this shit, everyone else is fighting for second place. How do you beat a fat man, wearing a bedazzled storm trooper helmet, busting through a wall, tripping over a piece of wood, and falling on his face, as a debut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Â Funny this topic comes up as we talk about this on the latest Between the Sheets regarding Hennig, Piper, and others is that the latest episode or one yet to be released? what did you make of Hennigs run? Â Â It's on the show that dropped today......regarding Hennig.....he wasn't the same guy of course after the injuries but he didn't have the aura he did in WWF although we did get the West Texas Rednecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy Bagwell Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Â Â Funny this topic comes up as we talk about this on the latest Between the Sheets regarding Hennig, Piper, and others is that the latest episode or one yet to be released? what did you make of Hennigs run? Â Â It's on the show that dropped today......regarding Hennig.....he wasn't the same guy of course after the injuries but he didn't have the aura he did in WWF although we did get the West Texas Rednecks. Â and we got him to jobbing to Shawn Stasiak who beat him with a "perfect plex"...fuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topropepodcast Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015   It was interesting that they gave Martel a push like that in 98. To his credit he got in good shape and could clearly still go.  Tugboat/Typhoon/Shockmaster might be another. Although at this point, the Shockmaster appears to be his most well known gimmick in some circles. poor old Fred, its like they found a few pieces of costume in Jim Herds old locker chucked him in them and told him to go break a leg. According to wiki WCW attempted to salvage the incident by introducing a new character called The Super Shockmaster. Also portrayed by Ottman, he was presented as The Shockmaster's nephew, and referred to the Shockmaster as "Uncle Fred.". I have no memory of this character  He was like the world's worst superhero in the gimmick.  He was supposed to feud with Vader after Superbrawl as Dusty pencilled him to referee the Thundercage main event. Vader refused and the spot went to The Boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 It was interesting that they gave Martel a push like that in 98. To his credit he got in good shape and could clearly still go. Â Martel made a few waves around '96, after his series with Don Callis up in Canada. In fact, Martel's talked about how he was set to return to the WWF in a veteran babyface role in '97 (along with Callis) but wound up signing with WCW instead. Â I realize it's unlikely - and a total long shot - but can you imagine Martel getting a similar mid-card run as a babyface with the Fed around that time instead? With the shift towards new stars, chances are he would have been lost in the shuffle within a month. Â But ya never know. I'm cool with what we got - Martel popping up as a recharged singles star for awhile within WCW - but the grass is almost always greener. And a run with the European Title instead, for example, could have been equally excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015   It was interesting that they gave Martel a push like that in 98. To his credit he got in good shape and could clearly still go.  Tugboat/Typhoon/Shockmaster might be another. Although at this point, the Shockmaster appears to be his most well known gimmick in some circles. poor old Fred, its like they found a few pieces of costume in Jim Herds old locker chucked him in them and told him to go break a leg. According to wiki WCW attempted to salvage the incident by introducing a new character called The Super Shockmaster. Also portrayed by Ottman, he was presented as The Shockmaster's nephew, and referred to the Shockmaster as "Uncle Fred.". I have no memory of this character  Fred Ottman won this shit, everyone else is fighting for second place. How do you beat a fat man, wearing a bedazzled storm trooper helmet, busting through a wall, tripping over a piece of wood, and falling on his face, as a debut?   I had never seen the segment for years and when I did I was mind blown at just how really ridiculous the whole setup was. The wall crash is just the big moment people talk about but people forget about the totality of this:  - The general cheesiness of WCW props and staging in this timeframe - Flair doing his talk show gimmick which gave him this bizarre, loud, Phil Donahue vibe to me - Sid and Bulldog having a totally incoherent shout-fest where I think the only thing that got across was both guys liked cocaine - Then Shockmaster falls through the wall, helmet comes off, HEY LIVE TV IS FUNNY - Then the VOICE OVER. Oh, the voice over.  It's a really amazing come together of "things that are wrestling" that is wholeheartedly memorable for all the wrong reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I would actually argue that WCW basically got the max out of Jim Duggan, considering he won the US title, hung around for years basically doing nothing because he was kind of worn out with the fans, then really late in the WCW game they had that weird period where WCW Saturday Night was virtually treated as it's own universe with the abandoned TV title as the Saturday Night title where Duggan, well past his best but still a tryer, did what he could still do. I don't think we should confuse "guys that didn't become big WCW stars but could have" with "guys that were kind of no hopers to be more than they were". Â I would say they botched guys like Bret Hart and Hennig way more than a guy like Duggan. I'd even say they probably wasted a guy like Ray Traylor who I've come to appreciate more in the last few years as a decent worker, who if the nWo wasn't just a giant oversized blob that existed to keep Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Savage on TV he could have filled a better role as a bodyguard/tough guy enforcer role that hung around the TV title level. I honestly don't remember him doing much of anything at all as a nWo member. Hennig seemed to be a victim of the politics where any time anything involving WCW or the Horsemen got over the nWo had to neuter it fast, which became so tiresome. Then he became just another meaningless, heatless part of the nWo blob. Hart went from being the hottest act in wrestling to being an afterthought inside 6 months. Â Warrior is sort of the guy in the middle. No matter what they did that was gonna suck, but whoa nelly did it ever suck a whole lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Martel won the TV Title. And it felt like they had decent plans for him until he got hurt. Â Although Duggan beat Austin in like 40 seconds for the US Title. Â I didn't even know Martel was TV Champion until I read Powerslam Magazine because whoever was in charge of giving the UK a edited version of Nitro didn't show us anything of his run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 That's weird because I remember him being all over the WCW shows we got in New Zealand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 re Martel. Â This story is from the Feb 13, 1995 Observer. he shows up at the end: Â Â Â The WWF drew its largest crowd of the new year and biggest house show crowd since October on 2/3 at the Montreal Forum when a reported 12,113 fans showed up for a ten-match loaded up show since there was no "B" show that night. It was the first show promoted for Titan by Raymond Rougeau. Montreal has been the WWF's best house show city for the past year, largely built around Raymond's younger brother Jacques as the top draw including a retirement match that sold out the Forum with 16,800 fans and drew $267,000 Canadian (about $214,000 American). Because Jacques' efforts as a self-promoter in Montreal resulted in big crowds every time out since Jacques returned to Titan as part of the Quebecers tag team, he was made local promoter after his retirement match in October. However, Jacques and Vince McMahon had a falling out largely over McMahon not wanting to do a 60,000-seat stadium show that would have taken place this past week feeling that Titan wasn't ready for an undertaking that big. Rougeau, who made promises around town about charity donations from the show which he claimed McMahon had first agreed to do, had a falling out which resulted in a lot of local newspaper coverage. Eventually it turned into a family feud type atmosphere as Raymond, who does the French language announcing on the Titan local television show along with interview segments on Wrestling Challenge, defended McMahon and called his younger brother immature in newspaper interviews. Jacques first tried to contact WCW about doing a stadium show with himself as the headliner (which didn't endear him to many in the city since he had just hyped a major retirement match weeks earlier saying this was a real retirement), was turned down. Then after being informed that his WWF contract didn't expire until June, has told friends that once it expires, he'll begin promoting indie shows around Quebec in the summer. While the show had a strong advance, it didn't indicate a crowd this large. A lot of the credit for the crowd seems to stem indirectly from The Undertaker's knee injury, which will keep him out of action the next few weeks. Pierre Karl Ouellete (who has been on hiatus from WWF until they re-introduce him in a Pirate gimmick), Jacques' opponent in the sellout house in October who turned babyface for Montreal only when the two hugged after the match, was pressed into emergency duty replacing Undertaker for a match with Shawn Michaels. Ironically, even though Ouellete is a local French Canadian, he only received about 60% cheers when he came out while Michaels received a thunderous response even though a heel. Michaels got the pin with his feet on the ropes and continued to work over Ouellete after the match, the apparent reasoning of "killing off" an apparent local draw being just in case Ouellete were to go with ex-partner Jacques and he his local top star, especially since Titan's plans are for Ouellete to return with his new character as a heel and drop all ties to being from Montreal in his gimmick which is really his main attribute for being a local draw. After the match, Rick Martel, who will apparently be used locally in the future in that babyface Quebecer role, tore off his suit and jacket and made the save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 The series on matches on Nitro and Thunder pitting Curt Hennig and Brian Adams against Davey Boy Smith and Jim Neidhart make all four of them candidates on general principle. Fucking hellfire. Â Greg Valentine didn't do a whole lot in WCW besides standing there looking fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Hennig's first six months in WCW were pretty good. His feuds with Flair and DDP were good secondary feuds. He had solid to good matches with several guys in the fall. I also enjoyed his tag team with Barry Windham and the West Texas Rednecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 He did have a really fun one with Benoit on a Nitro and had a couple of hidden good matches, but my God those tags were awful. It's like Davey, I love his Slamboree match with Vader too, so wouldn't put him or Curt especially high on the list realistically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't see how Hennig was underutilized. If anything, his career was salvaged a bit by going to WCW after he was essentially retired in WWE. I do remember that they were teasing a feud (and potential in-ring return) with Hunter Hearst Helmsley before he left, but I'm not sure that would've set the world ablaze considering that, while one could argue that young HHH is more tolerable than HHH post-00', in late 96'-early 97', he was still trapped in a one-dimensional snob gimmick that didn't really get interesting till Chyna showed up. Â I think Bret Hart and Tugboat might be neck-and-neck here, the first and only time I'd have them as equals in any department. Â I know Tanaka was around for a bit in the mid-90s and looked on Wikipedia and learned that Paul Diamond was on the WCW roster for a cup of coffee around the same time. Considering how repetitive and stale the WCW tag scene was in 95'/96' (I mean, how many Harlem Heat/Nasties or Harlem Heat/Stud Stable matches does one need to see in life?), it would've been sort of cool to see Tanaka and Diamond re-team. Matches against Stars & Stripes or Luger & Sting or Faces of Fear or, later, the Outsiders, would've been neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Greg Valentine didn't do a whole lot in WCW besides standing there looking fat. The only fun things I've seen him do there were beat the hell out of Marcus Alexander Bagwell and randomly talk shit on Dusty so Dustin could beat the hell out of him. Â Wikipedia says, unsourced, that he left when they asked him to lose to Sting, which is insane. Now I want to poke through some WONs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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