Loss Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Which order would you place the following matches in? I'm curious. Misawa v Kawada - 6/3/94 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue - 6/9/95 Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue - 12/6/96 Hokuto v Kandori - 4/2/93 Toyota/Yamada v Ozaki/Kansai - 11/26/92 When discussing the top five matches of the 90s, these are, most of the time, the matches that come up more than any others. So, how would you rank them compared to each other, and why would you say some are better than others? I've never heard much extended talk about the 6/95 and 12/96 tags for example, or comparing 6/3/94 to those matches. Nor have I heard much comparing AJW's peak to AJPW's peak. Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue - 6/9/95 Near-perfect match that just climaxes beautifully from one stage to the other. I've watched a lot of AJPW the past few weeks while converting VHS tapes for MisawaGQ and I think there are things I appreciate more in this match than I did before. After seeing the M/K v K/T 12/93 RWTL final and seeing Kobashi go after Kawada's leg, it's very satisfying to see Kawada get his revenge here. Kawada shows immediately, actually, that 6/9 would be his night, kicking Misawa square in the face just weeks after Misawa's carnival final against Taue where that played a big part. Misawa getting pinned by Kawada for the first time is the most perfect finish possible in these circumstances. The nodowa on Kobashi's knee and Misawa covering Kobashi to protect him remain two of my all-time favorite spots, meaning that if I were asked to name my five favorite moments ever in a wrestling match, these would both be there, and they'd possibly be the top two. Damnit, I'm cut short right as I'm wanting to finish my point, but I wanted to go ahead and post what I've already written, and I'll write the rest later today or tomorrow morning. Explanations will come later, but I think this is the order I'm sticking with: (1) Toyota/Yamada v Kansai/Ozaki - 11/26/92 AJW Dream Rush (2) Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue - 12/06/96 AJPW RWTL final (3) Hokuto v Kandori - AJW 04/02/93 Dreamslam I (4) Misawa v Kawada - AJPW 06/03/94 (5) Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue - AJPW 06/09/95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverwidow Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 My tentative list (order can always change): (1) Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue - 12/06/96 AJPW RWTL final (2) Hokuto v Kandori - AJW 04/02/93 Dreamslam I (3) Misawa v Kawada - AJPW 06/03/94 (4) Toyota/Yamada v Kansai/Ozaki - 11/26/92 AJW Dream Rush (5) Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue - AJPW 06/09/95 Some brief thoughts: 12/96 is the greatest climax to a deep rooted story that I have ever seen. Plus, the actual work itself is on a similar plane (which isn't always the case in a lot of story driven matches). To me, Hokuto/Kandori is more powerful and emotional than Misawa/Kawada, even though the latter plays off of more history. The Dream Rush tag is probably the most intense match out there. The interpromotional story is fantastic and more than makes up for a lack of smoothness in some of the work. And as great as 6/95 turned out to be, I've always found it to be a clear 2nd to 12/96 in the All Japan realm of tags. Better roleplaying from Akiyama, not to mention a much better Taue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Alright, wolverine, I'll ask you what I asked Tim about 6/3/94. What matches leading to 12/96 do I need to see to make me see the light because 6/9/95 happens to be my favorite match of all-time? I enjoyed Kobashi much more than Akiyama. I thought the story of 6/9/95 had no language barriers. You could go in cold and come out knowing you just saw an awesome display of in-ring story telling that only gets deeper when you gather the backstory. Whereas 12/96 left me cold, thinking that there has to be another reason why people are pimping this match. However, Loss said he thought Akiyama played his role better than Kobashi and basically echoes the exact same words so what matches have you guys seen that I haven't? As for the joshi matches, I love the tag match, probably my 2nd favorite match on this list and am burnt out on Kandori-Hokuto. With the Dramslam match, I really, really, really wish they would not have done the mindless brawling in the crowd. With that match, Austin-Bret, etc., it always looks so contrived. Get back in the ring and beat the shit out of each other already. With 6/3/94, I am currently in the process of picking up all the matches Tim mentioned HERE so my thoughts on 6/3/94 may change. So, I am going with... 1. 6/9/95 2. 11/26/92 3. 06/03/94 4. 12/06/96 5. 04/02/93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Misawa v Kawada - AJPW 6/3/94 On a strictly surface level, I've seen better singles matches. I think I'd put Destroyer/Baba from 3/5/69 ahead of this (and every other match ... ever) comfortably, but putting anything else above it is pretty tough. Where this match succeeds like no other match in history has is in getting the match over, getting the storylines over and getting the participants over. Kawada is obviously determined, but as has been said many times, he was only the second most determined man in the building. Kawada's knee was injured in the 12/93 RWTL and he was still selling the injury by June, but Misawa had never taken the low road and gone for Kawada's knee ... until this match. Check out the crowd reaction when he does. There are plenty of things to love about this match, but I think that's my favorite aspect of it. More later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverwidow Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 GH: Some cliff notes on what to get... Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue, 5/23 (This is their first meeting and is essential because of how it plays out with Misawa taking somewhat of a backseat in letting Akiyama "prove himself" with the big boys. The finish is very, very important as well). *Note: Here is Misawa & Akiyama's classic title defense against Steve Williams & Johnny Ace from 6/7. A critical bridge to the RWTL Final. Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue, 7/9 (Not as good as the 5/23 match but still excellent). Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue, 11/24 (This is available on Samurai TV in complete form. Another must). And I'm sure you have the 12/16/88 Hansen/Gordy vs. Tenryu/Kawada that they draw from as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Hmmm, I'll play even though it's been awhile since I've seen the 11/92 tag. Out of these matches I'd go Kandori vs Hokuto Toyota/Yamada vs Kansai/Ozaki Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue Misawa vs Kawada -- Don't believe I've seen 12/96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 That begs another question -- are there any other matches that you've seen from the 90s that you'd say are better than any of the matches listed here? Some of the next-tier great matches (i.e. Hansen/Kobashi 7/29, another AJ tag, Liger/Samurai, Tamura/Kohsaka, etc)? I'd personally say no, but I'm curious what others think. I know, for example, Tim has said that he thinks the 10/15/95 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue tag is better than 6/9/95, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 GH: Some cliff notes on what to get... Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue, 5/23 (This is their first meeting and is essential because of how it plays out with Misawa taking somewhat of a backseat in letting Akiyama "prove himself" with the big boys. The finish is very, very important as well). *Note: Here is Misawa & Akiyama's classic title defense against Steve Williams & Johnny Ace from 6/7. A critical bridge to the RWTL Final. Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue, 7/9 (Not as good as the 5/23 match but still excellent). Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue, 11/24 (This is available on Samurai TV in complete form. Another must). And I'm sure you have the 12/16/88 Hansen/Gordy vs. Tenryu/Kawada that they draw from as well. Thanks, I do have the 1988 tag match. Are there any single matches that play into the match as well or just the tags you have listed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 I definitely think 6/9/95 is the best standalone match out of the 5. You probably don't even need to see any leadup matches to see that it's the real deal. On the other hand, you kind of need to see the leadup matches to 6/3/94 and 12/6/96, otherwise you would never "get" a lot of the story that's being told. To me, that makes 6/9/95 the better match, while the others had the better overall story. Hokuto vs. Kandori I haven't seen in a long, long time. I have it here on DVD, just gotta get around to watching it. The Dream Rush tag I didn't even think was *****, because of some minor selling issues and sloppiness. I wouldn't put it up there with these other matches. A for other matches, Kobashi vs. Misawa 1/20/97 is probably #4 on my list, behind the 3 previously mentioned AJPW matches. I'd put their 10/21/97 match up there too, along with Kobashi vs. Hansen (7/29/93). Liger vs. Otani (2/9/97) is probably the best juniors match I've seen, but I didn't give it the full monty, so it's not up with those AJ matches. I also have yet to see their 1996 match in full, but I have it on DVD now, so things may change. So 1. 6/9/95 2. 6/3/94 3. 12/6/96 4. 1/20/97 5. 10/21/97 I don't want to put Hokuto-Kandori up there without watching it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 I think Hanson/Kobashi deserves on the list with the top AJPW matches. I am not into AJW 90's right now (deeply into AJW 80's though) so ignoring those matches, I think although 12/6/96 is the best of the matches, my favorite right now may be Kobashi/Hanson. I think 6/9/95 is most easily accessible to anyone but would put 6/3/94 above it as a more complex, history filled match that took advantage of EVERY single movement. But commenting on AJPW right now is hard since I would rather watch Rock n Roll Express vs. Savage/Poffo before I watched any of the AJPW classics. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ohtani's jacket Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Toyota/Yamada v Ozaki/Kansai - 11/26/92 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue - 6/9/95 Hokuto v Kandori - 4/2/93 Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue - 12/6/96 Misawa v Kawada - 6/3/94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 I haven't seen the last two matches, however the Misawa/Kobashi Vs. Kawada/Taue tag match is the best tag team match I've ever seen. Easily 5-stars. All the Misawa/Kawada singles matches are good, usually better than good, but they all kind of blend together to me. I can't really differentiate one from the other. That's what comp. tapes will do to ya. I didn't think the Akiyama tag touched the Kobashi tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Famous Mortimer Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 1. Toyota/Yamada v Ozaki/Kansai - 11/26/92 About as good as wrestling's ever going to get, I think. Starts off at an insane pace, never ever gets any slower, and never lets up on the intensity either. Amazing work. Trying to review it move by move is like trying to judge soup based on the individual ingredients- as a whole it's as near to perfect as makes no odds in my eyes. The difference between that match and the other four is tiny, as we're talking five of the greatest matches of all time here. I'll give the tag matches another watch soon and see what I think of them again. Other matches that should be up there...Kawada v. Kobashi from early 1998 is a fucking beauty. Dunno about anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 That begs another question -- are there any other matches that you've seen from the 90s that you'd say are better than any of the matches listed here? Some of the next-tier great matches (i.e. Hansen/Kobashi 7/29, another AJ tag, Liger/Samurai, Tamura/Kohsaka, etc)? I'd personally say no, but I'm curious what others think. I know, for example, Tim has said that he thinks the 10/15/95 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue tag is better than 6/9/95, for example. Just matches from the 90s? I wouldn't put anything over Hokuto vs Kandori. There are matches among others like Hasegawa vs Yamada 3/3/94 that have moved me just as much but I can't go out on a limb and say any match is better than this. Maybe tied but not better. Thunderqueen is up there. Kobashi/Misawa vs Kawada/Taue? Probably a few. I too am a fan of 10/95 and a bunch of other matches. Not too many matches are better than this though. Kawada vs Williams I liked better as well as a couple of Kobashi vs Williams matches. 12/96 -- I haven't seen 6/4/94 -- This is a great match but I'd put tons of matches over it as like I explained on smarkschoice awhile back I don't care for the beginning of this too much. 12/96 -- haven't seen 11/92 -- I'm going to have to watch this again just to make sure because I know I like some matches over it. It is a great example of the passion of joshi which is something joshi wrestlers are great at portraying. If people like this I think they should also check out the Owen Hart/Basserb vs Viet Cong Express matches which are in many ways the equivalent of the strong charactaristics of this match here particulary the passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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