What Are You Watching? -- April 2005

[Loss]

Mod's note -- If this topic makes no sense, it's because all the match reviews were pulled out afterward and posted in the match reviews folder that we didn't have at the time, but that we now have. Check it out, it'll make much more sense than this thread. -- Loss 05/02/05

 

Just received a boatload of DVDs from goodhelmet. So far, I've watched Jim Cornette - Secrets of the Ring and one other match I'll talk more about later.

 

Secrets of the Ring is a fascinating viewing, hearing Cornette explain the basics of the face/heel structure, a money promo and psychology, and also explaining some of the differences between working singles and tags. I must admit that I chuckled at his line about people on the Internet sitting with a notepad and watching matches because they can't get laid, just because it's such an overdone line. I think this is the sort of thing that should be required viewing for anyone looking to get into the business or anyone who is looking to have a greater understanding of the art form of pro wrestling.

 

The match I watched was Eddy/Rey from Halloween Havoc '97, and I need to watch it a couple more times to see how I feel about it. First impression is to say I prefer Ultimo/Rey at WW3 '96, but I have seen that match many more times than this one. Whenever I've given it another viewing or two, I'll post my full thoughts on it.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

I've had the Cornette video for ages, and it's a tape I keep watching again and again. It's the sort of thing you really need to watch multiple times just to absorb everything that Cornette explains. It's a veritable goldmine of so much information about the finer points of wrestling, that everyone who wants to expand their knowledge of wrestling absolutely has to watch.

 

Matches I've watched recently were the famousMisawa v Kawada match from June of 1994, and the Michinoku Pro 10-man tag from their October 1996 Sumo Hall event. Misawa v Kawada is really good, and I like some of the exchanges that take place, and the match is strong stuff. That said, I still do not think this is a ***** affair, and I still prefer other matches they've had over this one. The 10-man tag is ***** easy, and a picture perfect 30-minute example of Jap-Lucha at its best. Just great great stuff, with tons of great spots, funny comedy, and a showcase of what the likes of Taka and Funaki can do when they're allowed to go full pelt.

[MyOwnSummer]

I've been watching a collection of Kenta Kobashi matches fro Pro Wrestling NOAH;

 

Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue

Kenta Kobashi vs Akitoshi Saito

Kenta Kobashi vs THE GLADIATOR

Kenta Kobashi vs Minoru Suzuki

 

I'm quickly becoming a big fan of Kobashi, I like his chops and the rest og his moveset (especially the Burning Hammer) he really comes off as a good wrestler to me.

 

I thought The Taue match was pretty good if nothing spectaular. I've onlt seen one other Taue match that I can recall and this was far better. Taue seems like he's in the definete twighlight years of his career.

 

The match with Akitoshi Saito was solid if nothing special. Really the only notable moment in the match for me was when Saito and Kobashi where fighting on the apron and Saito suplexed him off but also into, the frame of the ring.

 

I'm only part way through the match with Mike Awesome, and apart from featuring the first table spot I've seen in NOAH it's once again, nothing spectacular. I've seen some really good Kobashi matches so I'm assuming it's his opponents who aren't up to snuff.

[goodhelmet]

The match I watched was Eddy/Rey from Halloween Havoc '97, and I need to watch it a couple more times to see how I feel about it. First impression is to say I prefer Ultimo/Rey at WW3 '96, but I have seen that match many more times than this one. Whenever I've given it another viewing or two, I'll post my full thoughts on it.

the one thing I love about this match is the ending. Not just the execution but WCW finally got it right for once. The original plan was for Eddie to go over and Rey to lose his mask but the powers-to-be actually listened to the wrestlers and allowed Rey to win. Eddie dominates the match with Rey getting in his hope spots but Eddie is such a dick that you end up cheering for Rey midway through no matter what your preference may be.

[goodhelmet]

I am 2/3 of the way through the Heenan-Cornette shoot. This isn't constructed like a regular interview. It is basically two guys sitting down reminiscing about the business. So many stories and tangents that I wouldn't know where to begin to summarize. It is times like these that I miss teke's shoot recaps since I could probably save some nice coin and just read the stories. Some of the stories were alredy covered in previous shoots but the real treat is the reaction of the other guy when one of them are retelling a story. Cornette was mentioning Mantaur and Heenan had no clue what he was talking about. His facial expressions were priceless. This is def. a DVD you want to pick up.

[Coffey]

Now I want to see that Cornette video. Ya'll built it up too much.

[goodhelmet]

2/3 of the way into the Mick Foley shoot. This shoot picks up where his 2nd book left off and he has no shortage of words. He dissects Flair's words and makes the Nature Boy look like a babbling idiot, at least as far as his book is concerned. He talks about proposed angles and arguments with Vince McMahon and the flaws of the Invasion. All in all, very informative and bruatally honest. I need to finish the 2nd disc that elaborates even more on his thoughts on Flair before I make a final judgment on the shoot.

[goodhelmet]

Just finished the Secrets of the RIng interview with Raven. To be hones, he doesn't tell you much you don't already know about putting together a logical match; what it takes to be an effective babyface; being able to think on the fly. If I was a little less informed, I probably would have enjoyed it more but as it stands, I don't know if I'll get the next couple of installments as they implied he would be doing more of these.

[Guest Some Guy]

Jim Cornette: Secrets of the Ring and the Cornette/Heenan shoot. Before I watched them I figured I would like the latter better, but afterwards I love the former.

 

Secrets of the Ring: Cornette is a fountain of information and spells out stuff that most here would already know, but he articulates it in a way that makes it seem very simple. Cornette is funny and opinionated as always. He knows his shit and it's a lot of fun to listen to him rant about various things that he likes or hates and how matches should be booked. If you like Cornette, you are going to want this.

 

Cornette/Heenan: This shoot is awesome. You have two of the best managers ever and two of the funniest guys in wrestling shooting the shit for a few hours sitting at a table. As Cornette mentions they were only in teh same promotion at the same time (WWF) for a very short time and they worked different promotions altogether for the most part, with Cornette in the South and Bobby in the North and mid-west. Gabe gives them a few topics during the few slow spots, but primarilly it is two guys telling funny stories about their life in wrestling. Cornette does most of the talking but Heenan gets in the funniest stuff. The two kind of play "can you top this" with their stories through out the shoot. This one is a definate must have if you like either guy or both.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

It might be reading, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. I finally got a hold of The Death Of WCW, and it was well worth the wait. It's a well written book, and it goes into great detail over what saw WCW from a bad copy of the WWF to the number one wrestling promotion in the world to a total joke to out of business. It highlights the numerous flaws of the various people put in charge of WCW, from Dusty Rhodes all the way to Vince Russo. To be fair, it does also point out what the various head guys did right, but those instances are few and far between, as each successive regime did more and more damage to WCW, both short term and long term, until it was far too late. The book is undoubtedly well researched, though there is at least one glaring error to it, which I?ll not mention here just to see if anyone else spots it when reading the book. About the only real negative to the book is it?s so damn depressing to read about the downfall of a company that, by all rights, should still be alive and kicking today, and would be, if not for the incredible arrogance and sheer ego of a handful of individuals. To that select group, and we know who they are, I give a hearty ?Fuck you? for killing a company that had so much potential that was only realized for a very brief period of time, and for taking away the ability of a large group of people, mostly unrecognized by the fans, to feed their families.

[goodhelmet]

What page number is the error on?

 

I have been meaning to pick it up for awhile but I'm too behind on other projects. I may pick it up sometime in May.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

It's between pages 40 and 50. I'm surprised it made it through, because I would have expected RD at least to remember the gory details.

[goodhelmet]

Oh man, I was just joking. Thanks for the head-up though. I'll be sure to comment on it after I read it.

[Guest Some Guy]

It's between pages 40 and 50. I'm surprised it made it through, because I would have expected RD at least to remember the gory details.

::Goes to get his copy of the book::

 

I just read pgs 40-50 and didn't notice a glaring error but then again I don't know all the details of 92 WCW. What was the error? PM me if you don't want to spoil it for non-owners of the book.

[goodhelmet]

BTW, watch Rey/Chavo too as it is a top 5 WWE 2004 match easily.

Damn, Tim, now I have to start throwing this match on every comp I make as well. Also, for clarification, you are talking about the GAB match, not the No Way Out match, correct?

 

Now you and Goodhelmet need to get Eddy/Big Show from Smackdown to see the most overlooked match of the last 5 years!!

Would we have to pay Friedlander prices to get it?

 

 

I have been wanting to do a southern brawl compilation for a long time. Well known matches plus lesser known, great matches.

If it helps, I have the Lawler-Idol cage match on DVD from Ginnetty.

 

Loss...

****1/2

NOw, the burning question... which one is better... JBL-Eddie or Savage-Warrior? I know you gave the same rating to both matches and I also know which one I would pick

[Tim Cooke]

I can copy Eddy/Show for you. Friedlanders quality was VG- so it will probably only be Good quality on the dub but still very watchable.

 

Now to read Rey/Chavo review from Loss...

 

Tim

[goodhelmet]

Hey Loss, I know you said you watched those All-Japan classics I gave you including Funk-Jumbo. Hurry up and get your thoughts down.

[Loss]

Hey Loss, I know you said you watched those All-Japan classics  I gave you including Funk-Jumbo. Hurry up and get your thoughts down.

I think I need to watch them one more time before I'm totally comfortable talking about them. I'm about to start on "If You Want Blood". And I do. Want blood.

[sek69]

I've been watching the DVDs I got via Cam of Wrestlemania 1 thru 4. Haven't had the desire to watch WM 4 in all its ass-numbing entirety yet, but it's amazing to see the evolution the Wrestlemania concept had in its first three years.

 

 

The first Wrestlemania is mainly just a showcase, outside of the main event there's really no storylines behind most of the matches. It's interesting from a historic standpoint, but most of this card wouldn't make a good episode of Heat today.

 

Wrestlemania 2 is one of things like the all-cage TNA ppv. They decided to experiment with a gimmick, and in this case it really didn't work. Having the card in three different venues might have sounded like a good way to illustrate literally how big Wrestlemania is, but in practice it ended up showing how thin the roster was, as it ended up each venue got a bunch of squashes and one main event. Also having three locations stretched out the commentary roster, leading to each segment getting a horrible celebrity commentator that usually distracted from the matches at hand.

 

I don't think there's ever been a greater difference between Wrestlemanias than there was between 2 and 3. There's no doubt 1987 was the year the WWF got its shit together. Regardless of the debate over the actual attendance, Wrestlemania III was the biggest show in WWF history. The sheer size of the crowd in long shots is overwhelming.

[sek69]

Speaking of Unforgiven 2001, I recently bought the DVD cheap off eBay just to see if I can spot myself in the crowd.

 

Carry on.

[Guest Bruiser Chong]

I got my hand's on the Wrestling's Future Stars DVD, which is part of the Wrestling Cold collection. It features OVW circa 2001-2002. I'm only halfway through it, but it's interesting to see guys like Brock, Shelton, Cena, Batista, Rico, and Eugene when none of them were stars, but all had potential to be ones down the road.

 

The main selling point of the DVD was the insider commentary from Cornette and Meltzer. Cornette looks like a genius when he says stuff like Levitan (Batista) is the kind of guy who can be main-eventing Wrestlemania if a few years.

 

Watching Shelton and Brock as a team had me thinking back to the Hart Foundation. Obviously, even at his greenest, Brock was still a superior wrestler to Neidhart, but the style and chemistry the duo presents in the ring was a throwback to tag team wrestling of the '80s.

 

This was my first glimpse of Eugene sans the retard gimmick; it's amazing to think that they're the same person. I can see further why so many people were upset when news broke of what they were planning for Dinsmore. Anyway, the wrestling's so-so, but for 10 bucks, it's worth a look just to see the progression some of these guys have made, not to mention the insider commentary.

[Guest Hunter's Torn Quad]

I'll just say I'm very surprised, and leave it at that.

[goodhelmet]

HTQ, you have to elaborate, man. What surprises you?

[Loss]

I split the topic, Goodhelmet. Check out the WCW thread and you'll understand.

[Marty]

Smackdown tag title match tonight was really fun and interesting. First time I've seen NMN, who came across as a lite Matt and Jeff Hardy, with Melinda being Lita lite, at least as a second. I like the gimmicks, though, as they're the Hollywood Blonds gone completely over the top. I don't know if the paparazzi photography is a total necessity to accompany the entrance, but it hammers the point home. This is going to be a fun team and maybe a team to revitalize one tag division with.

 

As for Rey and Eddie, their angle about a potential split continues, after Rey's inadvertent crossbody. Eddie's reactions for the rest of the match are incredible, from leaving halfway to returning, as well as the facial expressions for the rest of the match. I hate to say it, but I almost feel Rock should get Eddie into Hollywood, as his acting ability is being wasted here. You really do, though, feel that Eddie is neither a good person, nor a bad person, just someone who's stuck at a crossroads right now as far as his relationship with Rey goes. The crowd itself feels he is bad, but that doesn't last as long, as it really is tough to conclude what's on Eddie's mind. I won't spoil much aside from that, but you'll have to check it out to see what I mean.

 

As for the ring action itself, it's really fast-paced and makes a fine WCW cruiser tag team from 2001 style of match. I see now how everyone compares Rey to Kawada, as he was fine selling, but I really like the kicks he's thrown into his offense. The stuff with Eddie at the beginning is okay, but I found NMN were on the money in the first time I've seen them, as they really weren't out of place for any moment of time. The angle will mean more than the match, but if you need a free TV match tonight, you could do worse.