What are you watching?

[Loss]

Better one day early than never.

 

Wild Pegasus v El Samurai - NJPW 07/07/95

 

How do I put this nicely? THIS IS A VERY BORING MATCH. You could have heard a pin drop in the audience until about the 18-minute mark, when they sort of pop for a few spots, and then you don't hear another peep until the 25-minute mark, when they start doing the quick, try-to-get-the-fall-before-the-time-expires false finishes to only passing heat. No semblances of roles here, no advantages or disadvantages from either guy. It's often stated that NJ juniors in the mid-90s did pointless matwork for the first 5-10 minutes of their matches that had no affect on the match at all. This is that same philosophy stretched out to 25 minutes, with five minutes of semi-engaging stuff following it. Not either guy's best. The BOSJ final in '93 blew this out of the water.

[World's Worst Man]

1995 was actually a fairly disappointing BOSJ league. Benoit and Guerrero's semi-final was rather lackluster, as was Benoit and Otani's final. Both nights it just seemed to be an off-night for all of the guys involved, which is quite a coincidence considering they were all probably top10 workers at the time. Otani and Kanemoto managed to have a great match in one of the semi-finals, which is ironic since Kanemoto wasn't even close to Benoit or Guerrero. Oh Well.

 

I'm watching the 1995 G1 Climax at the moment. Really nothing to talk about so far, through the first part of the set. Chono and Flair had a fairly dull, but otherwise alright 30 minute draw. For some reason, Koshinaka went over Muto clean (Muto was IWGP Champ at the time). Muto and Chono then had a bloody match that wasn't all that well-wrestled, but looked like they'd have a hot story, but the ending came before it even got a chance to get going. Not a very good league so far.

[Resident Evil]

Benoit and Sammy is one of my top 20 matches of all time. One of the hardest working bouts I've ever seen and a testament to condition. The counters/moveset are enthralling and it builds so well.

 

Than at the end, they go a different route and switch it up. They've done a lot of their big moves and now because the time limit is starting to approach they go to more pinning type holds hoping for a pin. But here and in yet another part I really like they make sure to sneak in some powerful shots just in the hope they might get a pin.

The ending of the match is a perfect example of them switching over somewhat to get a pin attempt. Benoit snatches on one of the more convincing inside cradles I've ever seen. It's done so well that it's hard to believe Sammy kicked out of it. To be able to pull of such a believable near fall in a bout that had so many of them was a tremendous feat and made sure the match didn't leave itself from being anticlimatic.

The small package was also a great reminder of the work ethic of the bout which is up there among the best ever in that category. This is one of the main reasons why I watch wrestling. Loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it.

 

Still can't get over Benoit's conditioning here which may be the best I've ever, ever seen. He could've gone another hour at this rate.

 

And props to Sammy here too who worked his butt off as well and could've gone for longer too.

 

MisawaGQ says the tourney was dissapointing but I can't really say it was. We had the excellent 7/4 and the 7/13 Benoit vs Eddie bouts, Benoit vs Ohtani from earlier in the tourney and Benoit vs Sammy which was super.

 

Kanemoto vs Ohtani and the finals were dissapointing (although the match was still very good) but besides that I don't think we can be too dissapointed at this tourney.

[Loss]

My problem is that this match was wrestled like it was in a gym with no audience.

[Coffey]

iMPACT! was really good tonight. Homicide showed up! Samoe Joe wrestled Roderick Strong and a lot of unanswered questions, like the Gayda situation, started to finally get some light.

[Mad Dog]

I'm watching the 1995 G1 Climax at the moment. Really nothing to talk about so far, through the first part of the set. Chono and Flair had a fairly dull, but otherwise alright 30 minute draw. For some reason, Koshinaka went over Muto clean (Muto was IWGP Champ at the time). Muto and Chono then had a bloody match that wasn't all that well-wrestled, but looked like they'd have a hot story, but the ending came before it even got a chance to get going. Not a very good league so far.

It picks up pretty nicely after the first round of matches. Flair/Mutoh start off the second tape with a really good match with Mutoh bleeding like crazy the whole match. The final is probably top 5 for NJPW heavyweight matches.

[Mad Dog]

Just finished with Impact. I liked the Jackie Gayda swerve were they had you thinking it was going to be some love thing but it ended up being about Jarrett backing out of a promise and her trying to blackmail him now. Also found Styles/Storm to be a pretty solid and fun match. It's also nice to see Rhino motivated again.

[Guest Dovi]

Ric Flair vs. Brian Pillman - WCW - 4/13/91? airdate

 

I'm not sure on the exact date, the date on the file I d/led has 2/17/90 but Ross mentions 4/13 specifically during the match. Also, it's mention that Sid and Windham were with the Horsemen so I'm thinking '91 rather than '90.

 

Anyway, This was a really good 'Young Gun vs. The Man' match. Pillman comes out of the gate fast, hitting Flair with some of the nasty chops, which cut Flair's chest just less than 2 minutes in. Flair manages to hold off Pillman with a combo of stalling and cheap shots. When Flair does get control he can't let up because every time he does that Pillman almost immediately fires back. The screwjob finish doesn't rule the match but does make you want to see more.

[Loss]

I watched Wrestlemania VII.

 

Really well-booked, well-paced card, top to bottom. Opener was fun, but nothing that was going to steal the show, but it did set a nice tone. Harts/Nastys was also better than it gets credit for. I also liked how in their effort to get as many people on the show as possible to get the WM payoff, instead of doing multiple three-ways and four-ways that suck and have zero heat, they kept a revolving door beside Gorilla Monsoon at the announce booth and had guys coming out all night and doing commentary with him, with Heenan doing most of it to ease into his post-managerial role.

 

I think the biggest surprise on the whole show for me was Perfect/Bossman. Really nice match, and Boss Man was in AWESOME shape, probably the best I've ever seen him in. This wasn't really a Wrestlemania match, though, which I think is where it felt short. It felt more like a match they'd show you on free TV to get you excited about seeing Perfect/Bossman, considering the sprint-style pacing, the DQ finish and the Andre appearance. That happening on Superstars leading to the Perfect/Boss Man match at WM with Andre in Boss Man's corner and Heenan signing some new musclehead that he swears can offset Bossman in the other corner, but still giving a clean finish with Andre getting in some shots on the outside, would have been nice. These two had chemistry, despite the silly premise of the feud, and Boss Man was better than he gets credit for being.

[Resident Evil]

I watched Wrestlemania VII.

 

Really well-booked, well-paced card, top to bottom. Opener was fun, but nothing that was going to steal the show, but it did set a nice tone. Harts/Nastys was also better than it gets credit for. I also liked how in their effort to get as many people on the show as possible to get the WM payoff, instead of doing multiple three-ways and four-ways that suck and have zero heat, they kept a revolving door beside Gorilla Monsoon at the announce booth and had guys coming out all night and doing commentary with him, with Heenan doing most of it to ease into his post-managerial role.

 

I think the biggest surprise on the whole show for me was Perfect/Bossman. Really nice match, and Boss Man was in AWESOME shape, probably the best I've ever seen him in. This wasn't really a Wrestlemania match, though, which I think is where it felt short. It felt more like a match they'd show you on free TV to get you excited about seeing Perfect/Bossman, considering the sprint-style pacing, the DQ finish and the Andre appearance. That happening on Superstars leading to the Perfect/Boss Man match at WM with Andre in Boss Man's corner and Heenan signing some new musclehead that he swears can offset Bossman in the other corner, but still giving a clean finish with Andre getting in some shots on the outside, would have been nice. These two had chemistry, despite the silly premise of the feud, and Boss Man was better than he gets credit for being.

Did you watch Perfect vs the Bossman from Saturday Night's main event Loss? I remember liking that one when I was young.

 

 

 

Since I went through a good deal of trouble looking for this on a different board I thought I'd post it here so I'd have a backup. I also like stirring the pot a little bit on "controversial" matches.

 

 

 

 

BENOIT vs ANGLE ROYAL RUMBLE 03

 

 

Thought I'd give my thoughts on this. Beware though, it's going to be long winded.

 

 

I liked this more the 2nd time I watched than the first time. A lot of what someone gets out of this match is the way you look at it. Looked at from the perspective of what the match is and not what someone wants it to be makes it a better match. Basically it's about a technical/oneupmanship battle between the top two technical superstars in the WWE and one man's quest to obtain this championship. If you watch the match looking at it from that perspective which I believe you should because that's what they were going for I think everybody will enjoy it more.

 

 

The match starts off well enough and turns into a good solid bout. The highlights being some good work by Benoit trying to obtain the sharpshooter on Angle so he can test out his knee which to this point had not really been tested since Angle was only in one bout since recovering from his injury. Similar to the sharpshooter work in Benoit vs Kane from Bad Blood here we have Benoit going for the sharpshooter three times before obtaining it. First time - Angle completely avoids it, 2nd time -- Benoit gets closer to getting it in and the 3rd time he's succesful. Good work there. As a result of all this we now see Angle's knee is indeed healed up which we suspected from the previous Smackdown where Angle was using it with no problems and the rumours from the lockerroom which said Angle was milking the injury. So now it's time to swith battleplans. Good storytelling there. A good start but I don't think it was a truly great start.

 

So now we're at the part of the match where ANgle is dominating Benoit in a heel control segment. Benoit starts to come out of it with a real nice double clothesline spot and this is the point where the bout's excitement proceeds to pick up. As RRR is fond of saying this is a spot that forced the crowd to get involved. A short comeback which is than stopped by Angle's Kyoko Inoue like belly to belly off of the top rope. Right here is probably the first part of the bout where people have trouble with it. Benoit hits 2 germans, Angle hits 1 and than Benoit finishes off the trifecta with his own german suplex before going up for his 2nd headbutt attempt off of the top rope.

 

No selling is the common complaint here but it's not as bad as people tend to think it is. First off in wrestling we are often told that this is what happens when a certain move is used. For example we have to shut off our minds when a frontfacelock is used and pretend it's not a move that is lethal and is a move that can be countered easily. Other days we have to pretend it's a finisher. We also have to shut off our minds about irish whips. Why? Because prowrestling has taught us to do so. We accept it and don't complain too much about it. It's the same thing with the german reversal as Benoit and Angle beforehand told us several times that they can reverse suplexes the way they do (I might also add for people who don't think this spot is believable to reming them that they toned down the amount of suplexes and the sequence wasn't hit too late in the bout and henceforth they were still full of energy). It's not like they're cheating and making a new rule of wrestling. They've already solidified the rule.

 

Angle's belly to belly off of the ropes after the first german sequence is also a sore point with some viewers. Yes, it's a little controversial selling but one also has to remember again that Benoit did take a little time going up to the rope and we still weren't too far into the match.

 

This is the part of the bout where we really start to see the oneupmanship deal come into play which is a big theme of this bout. Benoit says "Fu** you Angle" and Angle does the same thing to Benoit. Their pride about who is the best technical wrestler is on the line as it's always been displayed both in the ring and in backstage skits. Angle's german also serves as a nice momentarily break in Benoit comeback. Angle's belly to belly off of the top rope does fight into this mentality a little bit as well.

 

The match after this point is a long finisher segment with Benoit getting the better of Angle at first and than Angle turning the table and proceeding to get the better of Benoit. An interesting way of doing things.

 

 

 

 

Back to the match, Angle than goes for a second Angle slam with Benoit countering it yet again by landing on his feet in a cool spot. Angle goes for a clothesline immediatly with Benoit countering into a crossface. Angle makes it to the rope. Benoit uses an anklelock to get Kurt off, Kurt than counters to his own anklelock with Benoit than countering to another crossface by turning his body around and using his other leg on ANgle's arm to drive him down to the mat. An improtant spot which will have importance later on in the bout.

 

This was a real cool sequence which keeps the oneupmanship/technical battle going between the two. The first crossface starts the Benoit onslaught and starts to get the crowd thinking that Benoit just might win. Than in one of my favourite spots of the match. Angle holds on to the ropes -- So what does Benoit do? Put an anklelock on which makes perfect sense since that's a move that'll make you let go of the ropes instinctively. A perfect excuse to go from point A to B and to give Angle a chance to counter into his own anklelock with a sweet counter. With Benoit's counter into his 2nd crossface we see the crowd starting to buy the possability that Angle might submit even more. One other important thing here is that Benoit and Angle's anklelock were brief. If they were longer it would've been a problem with the match in my opinion but they kept them short which was smart. It allowed the emphasis to stay on Benoit making Angle submit by not allowing Angle too much time to recover between the crossfaces. That way the hope of seeing Angle submit is kept strong. The sequence here once again excelled in the oneumpmanship story they had going on during the bout.

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the match again we have Angle countering the crossface in a brand new spot. The bannana split. Than senconds later Benoit once agains has Angle in a crossface before we see Angle attempt a peterson roll. Benoit rolls through but Angle counters that into an Angle Slam. Benoit kicks out.

 

Awesome sequence here made better by the fact that they're playing off of their previous work. With the Benoit countering into yet another crossface after the bannana split it really makes the crowd believe that Benoit's going to do it here and bring home the gold. Like I mentioned earlier it's important that Angle only counter briefly here. It does two immediate things. It keeps the oneupmanship deal going and at the same time makes the crowd's belief that Angle might tap out grow extreamly strong. Angle never has a chance to legitimally recover. It's boom, boom, boom, boom!

 

I mentioned the playing off of their previous stuff. Benoit had already developed the roll through to the attempted peterson roll by Benoit but Angle had never countered the roll through of the peterson roll. And here he does in big time fashion with an Angle slam. Enough to get an exciting pinfall on Benoit because the match has been going on for a while. Also enough to get Benoit down for awhile because ANgle was in big time trouble beforehand.

 

Here though we see probably the biggest problem of the match. Missed clothesline attempts into the crossface. Done too often.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the match. Angle hits the anklelock. Benoit counters with a forward roll which causes Angle to hit the turnbuckles. Benoit attempts a german but Angle counters with an elbow to Benoit's head. Angle goes for a german but Benoit counters with a great looking roll up.

 

Once again the oneupmanship deal. Another great sequence which nobody should have any problems with it. Angle has gotten the anklelock a couple of times now but never for too long. Enough to get the fans a little worried and to start wearing down Benoit's energy health meter. Still, nothing too serious. So far during the finisher segment which has been going since the belly to belly off of the top rope it's been Benoit dominating with Angle holding on but still hitting enough stuff to weaken Benoit's health meter and put him in trouble. (also helped out by the fast pace of the match)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the match. Benoit hits a german, Angle hits a german and than Benoit hits the tout de gras. An awesome overhead german suplexes which ends with Angle face down on the mat. Benoit goes up to the top rope and hits a flying headbutt. Angle kicks out only for Benoit to attempt a standing crossface. Angle rolls through, proceeds to hit Benoit with an innovative two hit combo of an inverted powerbomb into the top turnbuckle followed by the 2nd angle slam of the match.

 

Fantastic sequence here. First off the oneupmanship deal in never more obvious than it is here. Benoit hits 1 german, Angle hits 1 german but than in a hunongous screw you to Angle; Benoit hits the superb overhead release german suplex where I bleieve Angle and Benoit clunked heads. Now my favourite part of the match. Benoit who's now worn out from the match "crawls" over to the turnbuckles and proceeds to hit one of the longest headbutts I've ever seen him do. What makes this so great is a couple of different reasons. First off, it took Benoit three attempts to hit the headbutt so by the time he hits it the crowd HAS to pop for it. Real nice wrestling physcology there. The second reason goes back to that tremendous interview Benoit did on Smackdown where he talked about how much the title meant to him. See, it's one thing to say you're going to do somethnig. I'ts another thing alltogether to say you're going to do something and not only do it but do it with so much recklessabandon and enthusiasm that it becomes contagious to the viewer. Benoit proved through a herculean feat of athleteic prowess that he REALLY wants the title. It doesn't get better than that.

 

Now after Benoit hits the headbutt off of the tope he goes for the crossface on Angle who's down on the mat getting up. Benoit I believe did the same thing at Unforgiven so this time Angle's ready for it and counters by rolling through.

 

Now with the 2nd Angle slam we have the most believable fall of the match where a lot of people were scared to death that it was over. A second Angle slam which was proceeded by work on Benoit's head with the release german, Benoit's own headbutt which hurt him more than usual, a turnbuckle planting and an Angle slam. definitely a tremendous nearfall made even more dangerous and believable by the previous damage to Benoit's head. You can't help but pop like mad for the pinfall when Benoit kicks out. Angle also does a good job displaying Benoit's determination here by pounding the mat with his fist. Benoit's proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he wasn't bluffing when he did that backstage interview segment on Smackdown.

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the match. Benoit hits the crossface one last time. Angle counters into the anklelock once again. Benoit trys countering but Angle holds on. Eventually, Angle wins with a laying anklelock.

 

 

 

At this point Angle has taken over the momentum in the finisher segment that started with the belly to belly off of the top rope abouts. This part of the bout is similar to the parts proceeding it where Benoit had the advantage on Angle. This time however it's Angle constantly taking it to Benoit.

 

All right, Benoit hits the crossface one last time. He's hit it a lot and ANgle is bodering on sustaining too much finisher damage but I don't think they went overboard here. Anway, I felt the crossface worked here because it just seemed that Benoit would have to win with it this time and it showed that Benoit was always a constant threat. The whole arena was chanting "Tap, tap, tap" so obviously it worked! The crossface also served as a great excuse for Angle to go from working on Benoit's upperbody to working on his ankle since at that point of the match it wouldn't have made too much sense for Angle to voluntarily go after the ankle. So the crossface represents a logical way to get from A to B and give the match even more time to show Benoit's determination to win this thing by not giving up to Angle's onslaught.

 

After Angle gets Benoit into the anklelock we find ourselves watching some emotionally charged smart wrestling. A couple things I loved about this. First off there's learnt match physcology here. Remember Benoit countering to a crossface by turning his body around and using his other leg on ANgle's arm to drive him down to the mat earlier in the match? Well Benoit does it here once again in a desperate attempt to get out of the anklelock but Angle's learnt that trick and refuses to go down to the mat! And he maintains the anklelock! Also during this sequence Benoit turns around and kicks Angle off of the anklelock momentarily getting Angle off of his foot. Angle though goes right back to the foot like a shark smelling blood. So what does Benoit do? Kick him off again of course but this time in a tremendous looking visual Angle maintains his grip, rolls over and gets Benoit right back into the anklelock! Once again, in ring learnt physcology!

 

2nd thing I loved about this was the way constant pressure was put onto Benoit's ankle. This is an advantage that submission wrestling has over non submission wrestling. With non submission wrestling you'll often find wrestlers can recover a bit inbetween moves so for me anyway the sympthany is not as strong as it could be with submission wrestling like we saw here in this match at the end and the part of the match where Benoit was constantly putting Angle into the crossface. The constant pressure that Angle had on Benoit's ankle at the end of the match never gives me a chance to breathe. I feel Benoit's pain level going up and up with no real break (though there were teased breaks which I really liked) so my smpthany just climbs and climbs for Benoit getting me more involved into the bout.

 

The ending was a sure bet highlight of this bout too. It set up a rematch down the line beautifully as the laying anklelock just screams for a Benoit reversal. It also capped off Angle winning the oneupmanship game that was being played throughout the match. The laying anklelock also plays into the interview piece Benoit did on Smackdown a few weeks beforehand. There was no way Angle was going to beat Benoit using conventional means. He had to bring something new out to take Benoit down. Something he wasn't expecting. And of course as we all know he did.

 

 

So in conclusion, although this match isn't perfect I think it's strong enough to be a classic. The counters, the moveset, the oneupmanship, the technique, *the drawing of the fans in via wrestling (when they had some odds stacked against them), the learnt physcology, the emotion and the workrate all make it very memoarable. At least 4 1/4 ** though I'm not a big fan of the star rating system at all.

 

 

 

 

*About drawing the fans in -- I think I'll talk some more about that. Once we get into that extended finisher sequence I think what works is that the match does a great job of making you think Benoit can do it over and over again when he hits the crossfaces. The momentarily interjections of Angle getting out of those only to get back in again work well in that respect too. It obviously worked because the fans were chanting "tap, tap, tap".

 

Than we got the ending of the bout which is the same and the opposite of Benoit putting Angle in the crossfaces. This time it's Angle putting Benoit into the anklelock only for Benoit to get quick breaks of relief. This like earlier in the bout causes the fans to go "no, no, no" followed by "yes, yes, yes".

 

But personally perhaps my favourite suck the fans bout in moment was when Benoit finally hit the headbutt as I described earlier

[Loss]

I think Benoit/Angle is a pretty good match, but I also think it works better if you watch the entire Royal Rumble show, good and bad, than if you watch the match on its own. The key thing to remember is that they were following the worst World title match the company had put on in quite some time, the crowd had turned on the show, and they were in the PPV equivalent of the SNME death spot and had to get the crowd back on track. That they succeeded is a major credit to them.

 

Now, as a match, it's good, but it's not one I'd call an all-time favorite or anything, just because Benoit is working on such a different plane than Angle that it makes the match uneven. I think this is more of a great performance from Benoit than it is a great wrestling match.

 

The Rumble, as a whole, seemed like a colossal failure to me because the booking set up the show to get the following guys over:

 

Kurt Angle

Brock Lesnar

Chris Benoit

Chris Jericho

Scott Steiner

 

They were so close, and I think with Angle and Lesnar, they did an admirable job, but they just squandered Benoit for months after this when he had momentum and they could have expanded on it, and I still think Steiner was purposely buried by HHH because he was getting over in that spot, so it was decided that he'd be exposed in a 20-minute match to "prove" that he didn't need to be in that spot. And Jericho was turning in one of the two or three strongest Rumble performances ever (there was a 15-20 minute stretch with Jericho/Los Guerreros/Hardyz/Rob Van Dam/Edge/Misterio/Nowinski that is probably my favorite 20 minutes of a battle royal EVER) when they ruined it all by doing the Michaels run in and having Test be the one to eliminate him. The Rumble that year was built around Jericho attempting to beat the longevity record and also follow in Shawn's footsteps as the second guy to ever draw #1 and still win. They made him #2, for no discernable reason except to make it seem less impressive, then eliminated him early when a Jericho/Lesnar finale would have helped both guys tremendously, since Jericho would have been far able better to bump for Brock than Taker and there would have been a logical reason for either guy to win.

 

Just one of many missed opportunities from the last few years.

[Mad Dog]

Are there really people that think HHH didn't intentionally bury Steiner in that match?

 

It's also sad to see how badly they dropped the ball with Benoit after the standing ovation he got. It seems they had him on the shows as little as possible to get his heat down.

[goodhelmet]

I watched Suzuki vs. Kobashi from NOAH 1/05 tonigt. I was so unimpressed that I took it off the 2005 MOTYC comp. Seriously, I could think of about 15 WWE matches that I enjoyed better than this and that was enough reason for me to leave it off.

[sek69]

Are there really people that think HHH didn't intentionally bury Steiner in that match?

 

 

There are people who don't think it was a burial, saying WWE main eventers are supposed to be able to go 20 minutes and it wasn't HHH's fault that Steiner couldn't hang.

 

Of course that ignores the fact that Steiner was getting over, and people who start to get over shouldn't be put in a position to get exposed, especially when it's a face being exposed by a heel. That just goes against every booking rule there is.

 

But then, the people who make that argument are usually the ones that have an excuse for every burial HHH has masterminded in the past 5 years or so.

[Ray]

I watched Suzuki vs. Kobashi from NOAH 1/05 tonigt. I was so unimpressed that I took it off the 2005 MOTYC comp. Seriously, I could think of about 15 WWE matches that I enjoyed better than this and that was enough reason for me to leave it off.

I don't know how one could be unimpressed with this match. Care to explain?

[Resident Evil]

I watched Suzuki vs. Kobashi from NOAH 1/05 tonigt. I was so unimpressed that I took it off the 2005 MOTYC comp. Seriously, I could think of about 15 WWE matches that I enjoyed better than this and that was enough reason for me to leave it off.

I don't know how one could be unimpressed with this match. Care to explain?

I think I saw this before but I'm not too sure.

 

However, if it is nominated I think we should keep it on to let everyone decide because if we don't it's simply not fair. We all got different opinions on the wrestling matches and I think this has really been demonstasted the last couple of years on the IWC where opinions are getting more mixed than others.

 

I hate CM Punk vs Samoe Joe and Dragon vs London but I wouldn't protest if those matches were on a best of set because I know there's something in them that makes people like them.

 

 

Plus Kawada appears to like it as well and he's a hardcore fan whose opinion I respect.

 

Not sure if I've seen the bout but I think we should still keep it on.

[goodhelmet]

---I didn't take notes so I'll try and explain as best from memory...

 

- The headlock back into the ring spot was stupid. I have seen too many matches where a headlock means something and leads to something as well. Then there are matches where a headlock means nothing except a spot in the match. This falls into the latter.

 

- Suzuki's arm work is very impressive but in typical Kobashi fashion, when it comes time for him to take control, bye bye first half of the match.

 

-No selling of head drops that has become so cliche that it takes my enjoyment of half of the puro matches on this set down a notch.

 

 

I will fully admit that this isn't the worst match that would be included in the set. I am still pissed I got conned into putting Super Dragon v. Joe on there. I am also dreading the thought of having to track down the Cannon-Hero IWA 8/05 match although it might be good. Also, I am including matches that have been highly debated in various circles including Kobashi-Sasuke, Necro-Joe and the TNA Joe-Styles-Daniels 3-way even if I do not care for them myself. However, every NOAH tag I have seen has been head and shoulders above this. The Kojima-Kawada match was much better. KENTA-Suwa and KENTA-Kanemaru blow this away.

 

Also, I think when this match was nominated, people were listing good matches instead of actual true MOTY candidates. Seriously, would this rank in the Top 5 or even Top 10 matches from this year? In fact, if there were not so many debatable matches, I was hoping I could trim this bad boy to 2 discs. As it is, the monster grew uncontrollably and I felt this was one match that could be left off and nobody would miss. If I have room, I will include it at the end of Disc 4 but I am going to procrastinate as long as I can before putting this on there.

[goodhelmet]

However, if it is nominated I think we should keep it on to let everyone decide because if we don't it's simply not fair. We all got different opinions on the wrestling matches and I think this has really been demonstasted the last couple of years on the IWC where opinions are getting more mixed than others.

If you can find me five people (hell, three people)who would put this on thier top 5 for the year and actually elaborate on why they love this match, I would put it on there in a heartbeat.

 

 

I hate CM Punk vs Samoe Joe and Dragon vs London but I wouldn't protest if those matches were on a best of set because I know there's something in them that makes people like them.

Yeah, that is just nucking futs.

 

 

Plus Kawada appears to like it as well and he's a hardcore fan whose opinion I respect.

I have a similar taste in matches that he does. I would even gather to say that this is a good match with serious flaws. Still, I think I lost track of what this was suppsoed to be... a MOTYC comp.

[Resident Evil]

Hey, I did watch that match. I remember the headlock spot.

 

nucking futs.

I assume that was intentionally written like that. Good one! I got a laugh out of it.

[goodhelmet]

I am trying to watch my language

[Ray]

The headlock spots were great. Suzuki was being a dick and running around and the headlocks were Kobashi showing he could control at will. It's good storytelling.

 

I think it's silly to think arm work will stop the ace of NOAH and the strongest wrestler in Japan from hitting his finisher. If anything a slimy heel trying to dick him over makes it more proper for him to do it. Shows he won't be dicked around by some punk. That's why the finish is good - Kenta gets payback for Suzuki's BS.

 

I loved it and I have it in my top ten for the year.

[goodhelmet]

We will have to disagree here... strongly.

 

The headlock was an excuse to do the spot where he holds onto it going into the ring. If he wanted to show the guy he could control him at will then why was he getting his arm busted up the whole match?

 

I think it's silly to think arm work will stop the ace of NOAH and the strongest wrestler in Japan from hitting his finisher. If anything a slimy heel trying to dick him over makes it more proper for him to do it. Shows he won't be dicked around by some punk. That's why the finish is good - Kenta gets payback for Suzuki's BS.

The only problem here is that Suzuki applies 2 armbars, kicks the living shit out of the arm, an arm ringer, and a friggin hanging armbar. Regardless of who the wrestler is, if that does not incapacitate a wrestler's limb, well, that is just shitty selling. A better finish wuld have shown Kobashi winning despite his arm, not because of it.

 

However, you have changed my mind. I will include it... on Disc 4... at the end

[Resident Evil]

I remember Suzuki being a really good heel in that one. So much so that I had to tell my casual wrestling fan about it. I remember marking for the ending.

 

 

Oh man, I just watched Kobashi & Shiosaki vs. Nakajima & Sasaki from NAOH and oh my goodness. You talk about your ring a ding dong dandys. Super match that's going to be a top candidate for match of the year.

Shiosaki and Nakajima were athletic in there and looked like they belonged in the ring. I loved all the kicks and I've alway been a mark for tag matches where you have the old guys with the up and comers. Everybody should check this one out.

[goodhelmet]

I remember Suzuki being a really good heel in that one. So much so that I had to tell my casual wrestling fan about it. I remember marking for the ending.

 

Right, I gave credit to Suzuki. I blame Kobashi for the shortcomings.

 

Also, I marked for the ending of the WM20 main event. Doesn't mean the match was actually great.

 

 

Oh man, I just watched Kobashi & Shiosaki vs. Nakajima & Sasaki from NAOH and oh my goodness.

Just making sure... is this the 11-5-05 match?

[Resident Evil]

I remember Suzuki being a really good heel in that one. So much so that I had to tell my casual wrestling fan about it. I remember marking for the ending.

 

Right, I gave credit to Suzuki. I blame Kobashi for the shortcomings.

 

Also, I marked for the ending of the WM20 main event. Doesn't mean the match was actually great.

 

 

Oh man, I just watched Kobashi & Shiosaki vs. Nakajima & Sasaki from NAOH and oh my goodness.

Just making sure... is this the 11-5-05 match?

Yeah, it's that match. Do you ever go to sleep????

 

They didn't have two matches? Did they? I gotta start keeping better track of NAOH as I'm having difficultly remember what I've seen and what I haven't.