A VERY SPECIAL Between the Sheets = Brawl for All (Featuring Jordan Breen)

[KrisZ]

 

Kris & David are joined by Jordan Breen (Sherdog) to discuss the genesis of the Brawl for All concept from WWF in 1998 and how everything went down. We discuss all the fights and how each competitor fared good or bad. We also talked about the aftermath of the BFA and how the WWF really screwed it up plus how Butterbean became the true winner in all of this. This is a really strong show!!!!

 

0:00:00 Week 1 – Mero-Blackman & Bradshaw-Canterbury
0:29:58 Week 2 – Savio-Brakus & Hawk-Droz
0:45:26 Week 3 – Gunn-Holly & Severn-Godfather
1:09:49 Week 4 – Doc-Pierre & Scorpio-8 Ball
1:20:03 Week 5 – Doc-Gunn
1:27:54 Week 6 – Godfather-Scorpio
1:59:55 Weeks 7 & 8 – Savio-Droz & Gunn-Godfather
2:26:18 Week 9 – Gunn-Bradshaw
2:36:53 Aftermath & WrestleMania XV

 

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http://placetobenation.com/between-the-sheets-special-brawl-for-all/

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Oh hell yes.

[BrianB]

$$$$$$$$$$

[Cobra Commander]

 

 

On February 20, 1993, Haugen challenged Mexican legend Julio César Chávez for the WBC Light Welterweight Title at Azteca Stadium in Mexico City, a fight attended by 132,247 spectators. Haugen's legacy is likely best defined by the Chavez fight, but not for his performance in the ring. Leading up to the bout, Haugen made the comment that many of Chavez’s wins "came against Tijuana taxi drivers that my mom could whip." This generated a huge uproar in the Mexican community and ignited publicity for the bout. After the loss to Chávez, a dominant TKO loss, Haugen stated: "They must have been very tough taxi drivers."

 

since Greg Haugen got a mention

[The Chief]

Wow, this was easily my favorite Between the Sheets to date. I think my favorite part was you guys fantasy booking a 1988 Brawl 4 All. So I got to thinking, what would a Brawl 4 All be like....in 2008? I tried to follow the same rules, so no main guys like Batista or Cena. I left "pro boxer" Big Show out because something tells me they wouldn't want him in there legit killing people. I also tried to cast guys in specific roles similar to the 1998 tournament instead of just naming 16 guys. And I fully disclose I do not know who's tough in real life outside what I hear in shoots so I'm making a lot of this shit up. I apologize in advance but this is going to be a long winded post...

 

Playing the part of Steve Blackman: VLADIMIR KOZLOV

And his opponent playing the part of Marc Mero: ELIJAH BURKE

Blackman was a tough one because I really can't think of anyone from 2008 that gave off the aura of sheer terror that Blackman did. I picked Kozlov because he seems legit and he is scary. There was a very stiff and robotic style to his work that made me feel like he was always pulling his punches and wasn't used to "fake" fighting. Plus, we get a guy with a Sambo background! I think UNDEFEATED boxer Elijah Burke as Marc Mero speaks for itself. I could totally see Burke going in there with no wrestling game at all and just straight-up boxing.

 

Playing the part of Mark Canterbury: MIKE KNOX

Playing the part of Bradshaw: SHAD GASPARD

I feel like you need a complete nobody like Knox in there as he was barely used until the end of the year. I could totally see Knox having no skills and just throwing bombs. Bradshaw was a tough one but I feel Shad would fill the role nicely. Big tough dude who probably has no skills but could wind up a mean haymaker. Plus if you hear stories about what Shad was like backstage, I get the feeling a lot of wrestlers would enjoy seeing him get his ass kicked. This is your token zero-skill slugfest.

 

Playing the part of Brakkus: EZEKIEL JACKSON

Playing the part of Savio Vega: PRIMO COLON

Jacked up steroid dude who hasn't even debuted on TV yet? Big Zeke! I feel this is the easiest match so far. And for a scrappy Puerto Rican guy? Carlito is too important so let's use Primo Colon! I know nothing about Primo's reputation, but I'm going to pretend he's a tough bastard who really surprises people with how good his boxing game is. This is my fantasy tournament so I'm going to pretend Primo wins this by decision due to Zeke thinking this was going to be a work and getting spaced out after the first punch.

 

Playing the part of Droz: RICKY ORTIZ

Playing the part of Road Warrior Hawk: CHUCK PALUMBO

I picked Ortiz for the football background. He's a great athlete who never really transitioned that into pro wrestling. Hawk was damn tough, but I settled on Palumbo. Palumbo is mostly a tag team guy and something tells me big Chuck can take care of himself. And Chuck's best days were definitely behind him as he was out of the company shortly after this. Plus he was also involved in an attempted murder angle that year but instead of suicide, he attempted vehicular manslaughter on Jamie Noble. And looking at Ricky Ortiz's Wikipedia page for this led me to discover that he married Layla El? How did I not know this before? Damn, nice work Ricky...

 

Playing the part of Bart Gunn: DEUCE

Playing the part of Bob Holly: BOB HOLLY

Cranky Bob is still pissed at the results from 10 years ago so he throws his name in the bucket because he wants to teach some punk kids a lesson. And his opponent needs to be a tag team guy who literally has no individual identity, how about Jimmy Snuka Jr. Deuce! And just like Bart Gunn destroying people surprised everyone in 1998, we're going to pretend that Deuce has the meanest left hand in the business and completely shocks everyone by knocking out guys left and right. he wins the entire thing and is quietly released after they bring back Floyd Mayweather at next year's Mania to trounce him.

 

Playing the part of Pierre: SHEAMUS

Playing the part of Steve Williams: JIM DUGGAN

Sheamus was just signed to developmental and Pierre wasn't even on TV at the time so that's my connection. And something tells me Sheamus would be chomping at the bit to enter this thing. Now for his opponent we need an aging dude who was extremely tough back in his day and even with a few thousand miles on him and half strength he's still tougher than 90% of the roster. And if he also has Mid-South connections, that's a plus. Who the hell fits that qualification in 2008? Hacksaw Jim Duggan! This is my favorite fight of the tournament. And trust me, Jim Ross will remind us of Jim Duggan's collegiate background every chance he gets.

Playing the part of Godfather: SHELTON BENJAMIN

Playing the part of Dan Severn: CHARLIE HAAS

This is in the spirit of the New Midnight Express break-up angle! These are probably the two highest-pushed guys in the tournament. The Haas/Severn connection is due to the amateur background and both guys being bad promos. In addition to being an outstanding amateur wrestler, something tells me growing up in Orangeburg, SC made Shelton a pretty damn tough street fighter as well. He's probably the most well-rounded guy in the tournament, you might even say he's a SUPREME fighting machine. Even pulling his punches (they're buddies), Shelton takes care of Hass fairly easy. Haas tries to wrestle but Shelton surprises him with punches.

Playing the part of 8-Ball: BAM NEELY

Playing the part of Scorpio: NUNZIO

Because each guy is so low on the totem pole, this is relegated to just clips. Neely is just a big dude who throws bricks. Nunzio beats the bigger dude because he's a Billy Robinson trainee. People are surprised how well Nunzio takes care of himself in the tournament. He's actually got some decent boxing game (he threw shadow punches before matches in ECW!!!) and can definitely go on the mat.

 

I think this would be awesome and now you have me wondering what these would be like in various years. Screw Cruiserweight Classic, if you want a Network-only tournament, bring back the Brawl 4 All!

[KrisZ]

Great work there......yeah this show was a blast to do

[BrianB]

Nice 2008 list.

 

Seconded on it being a great show. I'll give some thoughts on that possible 1988 tournament. Personally, I think Bad News Brown might very likely turn out to be the Dr. Death exposed guy from this tournament. He did have the judo background, but his knees seemed completely shot at this time. He hardly ever bumped and every time he went down, he frequently looked just strained getting up, beyond selling. Plus, even in this WWF era, he's got that gut. Vince might have protected him because Bad News was the heel touring with Savage and Hogan in 1988. Orndorff was a great call for a sleeper pick. If his arm was still in good enough shape then and his nerve injuries weren't too bad, he'd be my pick as well. Rude would be the sleeper pick if Orndorff was too beat up. Haku and Barbarian would probably be the two favorites, but good call on amateur wrestler Bret. Dynamite surely would've thrown his hat in the ring and unless he got Bradshaw or Droz level match-making, he'd probably get his ego crushed fairly early.

[Beast]

I watched a few fights concurrently with this show (Gunn/Holly, Severn/Godfather, Gunn/Godfather, Bradshaw/Droz, and Gunn/Bradshaw) and I thought they were a total blast. I think they hold up better now than they did at the time, at least in terms of entertainment value. It was an absurd idea presented in a very flawed way, but at least it was something different.

 

You can say the ceiling was low for Gunn regardless, but it's a shame they never truly capitalized on him coming out of the tournament looking like a world-beater.

[...TG]

Has Russo ever talked about how, and more importantly why, he came up with this? Because I have a probably unoriginal theory: Jim Ross is, of course, a huge fan/friend of Steve Williams, and I'm sure while arguing his case in the booking meetings mentioned his college wrestling background and how legitimately tough he is/was. So Russo came up with Brawl For (It) All as a way to get Doc over, with the side benefit of getting political points on Jim Ross if Doc doesn't win. And since Vince McMahon loves few things for than humiliating Jim Ross, Vince readily agreed.

[Bix]

Has Russo ever talked about how, and more importantly why, he came up with this? Because I have a probably unoriginal theory: Jim Ross is, of course, a huge fan/friend of Steve Williams, and I'm sure while arguing his case in the booking meetings mentioned his college wrestling background and how legitimately tough he is/was. So Russo came up with Brawl For (It) All as a way to get Doc over, with the side benefit of getting political points on Jim Ross if Doc doesn't win. And since Vince McMahon loves few things for than humiliating Jim Ross, Vince readily agreed.

 

That sounds way too clever to be a Russo scheme.

[PeteF3]

http://members.f4wonline.com/august-24-1998-wrestling-observer-newsletter-warrior-makes-wcw-debut-wo-hof-96876

 

I presume this is the missing Observer Kris was referring to. On the website, just missing a link in the Archives.

[Cox]

Here's my crazy Brawl for All What If: Kurt Angle signs with the WWF in October 1998, two months after the Brawl for All ends. What happens in a hypothetical Brawl for All with Kurt Angle under contract? If he's still in any type of shape after the Olympics (which granted, were two years ago), I see him utilizing the Dan Severn "take people down at will" strategy, only being fast enough to avoid getting popped. Granted, he has NO stand up, and if he wins the Brawl for All, you can't really debut him since he doesn't, you know, know how to wrestle a worked match at all, but I think he's an interesting what if that could have conceivably been in the thing if it had happened 3 months later.

[Matt D]

If nothing else, they should have pushed Barton as a challenger to Shamrock's IC belt in November. It could have been inconsequential but would have probably had some interest and kept him at least partially in view before the Butterbean thing.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Chief, that is some absolutely top work on rebooking a 2008 version of the tournament. Some of those comparisons work so well. The only one that I would really change is Duggan in the role of Dr Death. While it works on a mid South level, I feel it needs to be someone that they brought in specifically for the tournament, hoping that he would get over and that he could then be used as a challenger. I'm not sure if I have the 2008 recall to suggest who that could've been, but maybe Jack Swagger? He had the amateur credentials etc. but then maybe falls as he's going for a takedown to someone like a Sheamus just punching him in the face.

[The Chief]

Here's my crazy Brawl for All What If: Kurt Angle signs with the WWF in October 1998, two months after the Brawl for All ends. What happens in a hypothetical Brawl for All with Kurt Angle under contract? If he's still in any type of shape after the Olympics (which granted, were two years ago), I see him utilizing the Dan Severn "take people down at will" strategy, only being fast enough to avoid getting popped. Granted, he has NO stand up, and if he wins the Brawl for All, you can't really debut him since he doesn't, you know, know how to wrestle a worked match at all, but I think he's an interesting what if that could have conceivably been in the thing if it had happened 3 months later.

 

This is interesting. If somebody can knock him out, I want to say he gets a Dan Severn-like WWF career but do they give him the chance to work a mic if he does? He will get over if he can talk and as a heel he can play up the loss as a crybaby. Or do they try to bury him since they hyped him up as a world class legit athlete and he let them down? The Brawl 4 All was a vehicle to get Doc over and look how quickly they gave up on him, does the same thing happen to Angle? If Angle wins, then gets killed by Butterbean which I'm 99% sure would be the outcome, that's even worse because look how much of a zero Gunn became in their eyes after that.

 

Chief, that is some absolutely top work on rebooking a 2008 version of the tournament. Some of those comparisons work so well. The only one that I would really change is Duggan in the role of Dr Death. While it works on a mid South level, I feel it needs to be someone that they brought in specifically for the tournament, hoping that he would get over and that he could then be used as a challenger. I'm not sure if I have the 2008 recall to suggest who that could've been, but maybe Jack Swagger? He had the amateur credentials etc. but then maybe falls as he's going for a takedown to someone like a Sheamus just punching him in the face.

 

Thanks! Swagger was a guy they immediately pushed and I believe he had an undefeated streak for a while as FCW Champion. He wasn't in ECW until the Fall, but he was under contract so this could work timeframe-wise. I could see them using this as a vehicle to debut him.

[The Russian Daydream]

It was fun hearing you guys discuss this. I've not watched any of the Brawl for All stuff since it first aired but I might go back and watch some now.

 

When Kris read out the section about the failure of Brawl for All at the end, it's hard to argue. From the list of injuries to the absolute lack of over-ness of anyone involved leading to about half of the competitors being released within a year, it turned out a total mess.

 

One thing I do wonder though is, would Steve Williams WWF run have turned out much differently if Brawl for All hadn't happened? I doubt it. Beyond the fact he wasn't a good promo which would have hurt him from the start, the wrestling style he developed over his career was just incomparable with the WWF main event roster. Williams had spent the last half-decade gaining notoriety for hitting people really hard and suplexing them on their heads. There is no way, as fragile as he was by autumn 98, that Steve Austin would have been willing to take that offence, and without the offence, Williams is just the boring leg-lock guy that showed up in WCW in 92. I just cannot see how Jim Ross was able to convince anyone that Williams was the right guy to push as the main heel at that time.