Current Joshi Talk

[WingedEagle]

I'm with Muta Liger that the latest Stardom show didn't live up to the December outing, but that also had a legit MOTYC. The HZK/Wolf/Konami match was a surprisingly good triangle match that was well laid out and worked at a great pace that didn't go too long. Lot of fun there. I'm not as sold on the Nixon/Ray tag team as some others apparently are, but that was also a fun match with some big spots.

 

I'll probably rewatch it this week, but I thought Shirai/Viper was actually pretty great, maybe even ****. Shirai did a great job putting over Viper as a monster and making the size difference an effective part of the match before a strong, decisive finishing run that didn't go on forever as can sometimes be the case in joshi. We'll see what happens when she faces Shayna Baszler in February, as I haven't been impressed by her at all. That might be a challenge.

 

All in all it was still a really fun, fast show that Stardom World makes so easy to watch with the translations and how matches are posted.

[jushin muta liger]

The wrestling on the show wasn't that bad but there was some stuff on the show that I felt didn't work and some stuff that is stale with Stardom.

[Mad Dog]

Okay, I signed up for Stardom. What's a good show to start with?

[WingedEagle]

Okay, I signed up for Stardom. What's a good show to start with?

 

If you want to get up to speed quickly but catch the big stuff, I'd recommend:

 

Io Shirai & Mayu Iwatani vs. Meiko Satomura & Kairi Hojo (3/21/2016)

Io Shirai vs. Mayu Iwatani (5/15/2016)

Io Shirai vs. Kairi Hojo (9/3/2016) -- Legit MOTYC

 

From there go right to the Year End Climax show (12/22/2016), and watch the video packages between matches, particularly the main event. That'll get you into 2017 where I believe you'll only have 2 shows to catch up on.

 

Happy to provide more recs if you'd like but don't want to overwhelm someone right away.

 

Enjoy!

[Mad Dog]

I might just go back to the oldest show and move forward. I did see that the matches are divided out so I will go with the matches you recommended and go from there.

[Mad Dog]

I decided to just start with the first show of 2016 and move my way forward. It also helped that it had some American talent I'm familiar with like Evie and Skater. I still have the two main event matches to go but I've had a lot of fun with the show so far. I like the Stardom vs. the World aspect and I thought most of the matches have been fun at worst and I liked the Evie/Iwatani and Diemond/Matsumoto matches quite a bit.

[WingedEagle]

Nice! Let me know if there are any under the radar matches worth checking out. I tried to hit anything big based on recs from Donsem here and other spots, but there are undoubtedly a lot of blind spots. Still getting my lay of the land as far as the entire roster goes am curious to see how they work in outsiders or other promotions to keep things fresh.

[Mad Dog]

I thought the Evie/Iwatani match from 2/21/16 was a fun little romp. Evie I've seen a few times and she's solid.

[Mad Dog]

I liked the Garrett/Hojo match from 2/21 a lot. That was a really good match.

[WingedEagle]

I thought the Evie/Iwatani match from 2/21/16 was a fun little romp. Evie I've seen a few times and she's solid.

 

Is that the one where Evie worked on Mayu's back quite a bit? If I'm remember it correctly it was quite the performance and one you didn't necessarily expect to be so terrific. Just love how she can turn on the fire almost out of nowhere and bring the crowd with her after selling for so long. Mayu's absence on the latest show due to injury was definitely notable as she's one of the best sellers and babyfaces on the roster. You know there's another big Mayu/Shirai match, if not more, in the pipeline this year.

[Mad Dog]

Yeah, Evie worked Mayu's back a lot in that one.

 

I worked my way through the next show which had Viper winning a gauntlet and Shirai, Mayu and Hojo beating Team Hyper Destroyer for the Artist belts in a really fun trios match. I'm really digging this promotion after 2 shows. It's just ridiculously fun.

[donsem43]

 

 

 

So in the post-match of Nanae vs. Arisa, Nakajima was made an offer to join SEAdLINNNG and she accepted. The scary thing is that there hasn't been any word of when or even if this was taped. There's a cameraman at ringside but I assume that he was with the Samurai TV highlight show. It would be incredibly disappointing if this doesn't show up.

 

Watch the WAVE tag title match between Avid Rival vs. oedo-tai. Match was good but did go a bit long while having a few deadspots. When they pick up the pace the action is pretty good but it just wasn't very consistent.

[Mad Dog]

 

 

 

So in the post-match of Nanae vs. Arisa, Nakajima was made an offer to join SEAdLINNNG and she accepted. The scary thing is that there hasn't been any word of when or even if this was taped. There's a cameraman at ringside but I assume that he was with the Samurai TV highlight show. It would be incredibly disappointing if this doesn't show up.

 

Watch the WAVE tag title match between Avid Rival vs. oedo-tai. Match was good but did go a bit long while having a few deadspots. When they pick up the pace the action is pretty good but it just wasn't very consistent.

I'm curious since you seem to watch everything. If you had to rate the promotions right now how would that look?

[ns1257]

 

 

 

So in the post-match of Nanae vs. Arisa, Nakajima was made an offer to join SEAdLINNNG and she accepted. The scary thing is that there hasn't been any word of when or even if this was taped. There's a cameraman at ringside but I assume that he was with the Samurai TV highlight show. It would be incredibly disappointing if this doesn't show up.

 

Watch the WAVE tag title match between Avid Rival vs. oedo-tai. Match was good but did go a bit long while having a few deadspots. When they pick up the pace the action is pretty good but it just wasn't very consistent.

 

Well, I guess this means she won't be in WWE's women's tournament (which was what I thought was the reason she was leaving JWP, but I should've known better to think WWE had eyes on Joshi that wasn't STARDOM). It's nice that she'll be in a promotion that does get TV tapings, but she deserves way more exposure, even though there is quite a bit of talent coming through SEAdLINNNG at the moment.

[donsem43]

I'm curious since you seem to watch everything. If you had to rate the promotions right now how would that look?

 

 

In terms of just in-ring, I would put SEAdLINNNG and WAVE at the top. SEAdLINNNG is the better total package because of the booking and a lot of fresh matchups due to Nanae Takahashi and Yoshiko being in Stardom for so long. WAVE has had quite a few great matches since the middle of last year, but their booking is aimless and their belts don't mean much. WAVE Network has been off the radar which isn't surprising given that it's not as English friendly as Stardom World and a casual joshi fan wouldn't know some of the names.

 

I think Stardom get dumped on a bit much because of the booking, but the main difference has been that the main events haven't delivered as regularly as they use to. It would help if they booked foreigners more consistently like the men's groups and if they felt more comfortable using freelancers in important roles but they don't seem to want to do that at this time.

 

I've hyped Ice Ribbon before, but that was more for their potential than the current in-ring. If you checkout some of their shows from the past year, you're not going to be blown away with what you see. They do have a lot of interesting young talents. Especially Tsukushi who could have a breakout year this year, Risa Sera could have a strong run as ICEx Infinity champ, plus they always have the underrated Tsukasa Fujimoto to hold things together.

 

I do think that Sendai Girls is a bit overrated. They main events are at least good if not better but I always feel underwhelmed by the rest of the card. Meiko Satomura is Meiko Satomura and both Chihiro Hashimoto and Mika Shirahime have the potential to be big stars, it's just that their show have their fair share of disappointing matches on them.

 

JWP has a huge hole at the top with Arisa Nakajima leaving. They do have some solid veterans like Bolshoi, Leon and Hanako Nakamori but their young talent doesn't have anyone who has much potential. When big names left JWP in the past you could always point to at least couple of younger girls who could fill that role but there is no Hikari Fukuoka or Azumi Hyuga in this group.

 

Honestly, OZ Academy gets more frustrating the more you think about them. On paper, they could possibly be the best joshi group because of the talent that they have. It's just that the way that the promotion is booked, not just in storylines and wins/losses but also in how the matches themselves are worked, makes them a challenge to watch on a regular basis. Just look at their last show, it looks like it could be really good on paper but if you've watched enough OZ Academy you get them feeling that it's just not going to be that good. That's sad because their are quite a few workers here that could have some great matches in the right environment.

[Mad Dog]

Thanks for the rundown. I'm fairly new to modern joshi. Most of what I've watched is 80s AJW.

[Mad Dog]

So my big takeaway from the first couple of shows other than Io Shirai is awesome is that I really like Hiroyo Matumoto. Her inring work seems really strong, I like her personality and her promos seem really strong.

[jushin muta liger]

 

I'm curious since you seem to watch everything. If you had to rate the promotions right now how would that look?

 

In terms of just in-ring, I would put SEAdLINNNG and WAVE at the top. SEAdLINNNG is the better total package because of the booking and a lot of fresh matchups due to Nanae Takahashi and Yoshiko being in Stardom for so long. WAVE has had quite a few great matches since the middle of last year, but their booking is aimless and their belts don't mean much. WAVE Network has been off the radar which isn't surprising given that it's not as English friendly as Stardom World and a casual joshi fan wouldn't know some of the names.

 

I think Stardom get dumped on a bit much because of the booking, but the main difference has been that the main events haven't delivered as regularly as they use to. It would help if they booked foreigners more consistently like the men's groups and if they felt more comfortable using freelancers in important roles but they don't seem to want to do that at this time.

 

I've hyped Ice Ribbon before, but that was more for their potential than the current in-ring. If you checkout some of their shows from the past year, you're not going to be blown away with what you see. They do have a lot of interesting young talents. Especially Tsukushi who could have a breakout year this year, Risa Sera could have a strong run as ICEx Infinity champ, plus they always have the underrated Tsukasa Fujimoto to hold things together.

 

I do think that Sendai Girls is a bit overrated. They main events are at least good if not better but I always feel underwhelmed by the rest of the card. Meiko Satomura is Meiko Satomura and both Chihiro Hashimoto and Mika Shirahime have the potential to be big stars, it's just that their show have their fair share of disappointing matches on them.

 

JWP has a huge hole at the top with Arisa Nakajima leaving. They do have some solid veterans like Bolshoi, Leon and Hanako Nakamori but their young talent doesn't have anyone who has much potential. When big names left JWP in the past you could always point to at least couple of younger girls who could fill that role but there is no Hikari Fukuoka or Azumi Hyuga in this group.

 

Honestly, OZ Academy gets more frustrating the more you think about them. On paper, they could possibly be the best joshi group because of the talent that they have. It's just that the way that the promotion is booked, not just in storylines and wins/losses but also in how the matches themselves are worked, makes them a challenge to watch on a regular basis. Just look at their last show, it looks like it could be really good on paper but if you've watched enough OZ Academy you get them feeling that it's just not going to be that good. That's sad because their are quite a few workers here that could have some great matches in the right environment.

I agree for the most part with this assessment. Seadlinnng and Wave has the stuff I like in my wrestling but I don't subscribe to Wave Network so I'm slowly seeing stuff as their TV show gets posted from 2016.

 

Disagree with Sendai Girls being overrated cause they only have 5 wrestlers on the roster but also they give diversity on their cards. I thought the November Korakuen Hall Show was the best Joshi show of 2016. It had a world title match, great in ring tag match, wild hardcore match, a comedy match and a rookie match with legit talent in Hana and Mika.

 

Stardom gets dumped on cause they are the biggest Joshi promotion sort of like people do with New Japan. They lucked up with Sendai Girls invading them in 2015 cause it saved them from Yoshiko/Act shoot. After that, Fuka and Rossy Ogawa haven't been the best bookers. I wasn't bothered by Mayu losing both times but they have to get a big win soon. I feel like they are extending Io's title reign just so they can wait for Toni Storm to come back (they are 1-1) but they also have Kairi in the back pocket with a title vs title match. Stardom is still a good product and still have the best future going forward even if Io and/or Kairi leave cause of the young talent they have with Hana Kimura, Kagestu, and Konami working their shows as freelancers and having Storm, Momo, HKZ, Jungle, Bito and Mayu full time. If they somehow got Sareee from Diana, they would be in much better shape.

 

I feel the same about Oz Academy as they have the potential with their roster and regular TV but their stuff is not my cup of te for the most part with the constant interference.

 

I've gotten to the point where I keep Ice Ribbon at a distance. It's similar to DDT as they have great matches but the other stuff isn't for me.

[donsem43]

So my big takeaway from the first couple of shows other than Io Shirai is awesome is that I really like Hiroyo Matumoto. Her inring work seems really strong, I like her personality and her promos seem really strong.

 

When you get to June, make sure to check out Hiroyo's match with Hojo from the Fortune Dream show in June. It's not on Stardom World but I think I put a (still working) link to the match in the MDA thread. Another strong performance from Hiroyo along with Hojo being Hojo.

[donsem43]

Highlights of Nanae/Arisa from Samurai TV. Starts at 20 minutes in, lasts about 3.

[jushin muta liger]

According to RIZIN's website, the wrestling matches that took place before RIZIN's New Year's Show will air on Fuji TV on December 3rd. http://jp.rizinff.com/_ct/17036148

[jushin muta liger]

Also Sareee is leaving Diana to join Seadlinnng. I thought Stardom should've went after her but Nanae isn't playing around. http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20170201-00000025-tospoweb-fight

[donsem43]

Nico is showing the 1/26 SEAdLINNNG show on 2/11, so Nanae/Arisa has in fact MADE TAPE!!!!

 

I was wondering what Nanae's long-term plans where for SEAdLINNNG and these moves show she's looking to build with established wrestlers rather than build from within. That's surprising since it's especially rare that joshi wrestlers jump from group to group as they're more likely to go freelance and work for whoever. Two other names to keep an eye on that might potentially jump are Rina Yamashita and Ryo Mizunami. Yamashita, like Arisa Nakajima, has been feuding with Nanae/Yoshiko for the past year. Mizunami has been a regular on the last few shows and also seems to be ending her team with Misaki Ohata in WAVE. If she drops the Regina di WAVE title to Ohata on 2/11, I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up here too.

 

Bad news for Stardom as Momo Watanabe suffered an ACL injury and is out for an indefinite length of time. She had been a standout since turning heel and joining Queen's Quest.

 

The good news for Stardom is that their 1/29 show was one of their best top to bottom shows that they have had in awhile. The top three matches are all really good. Hojo/Newell had some really good selling. Queen's Quest has turned into a really good trios team. KLR/Kyona was surprisingly good. Probably the best performance from Kyona in her career so far.

[jushin muta liger]

Nico is showing the 1/26 SEAdLINNNG show on 2/11, so Nanae/Arisa has in fact MADE TAPE!!!!

 

I was wondering what Nanae's long-term plans where for SEAdLINNNG and these moves show she's looking to build with established wrestlers rather than build from within. That's surprising since it's especially rare that joshi wrestlers jump from group to group as they're more likely to go freelance and work for whoever. Two other names to keep an eye on that might potentially jump are Rina Yamashita and Ryo Mizunami. Yamashita, like Arisa Nakajima, has been feuding with Nanae/Yoshiko for the past year. Mizunami has been a regular on the last few shows and also seems to be ending her team with Misaki Ohata in WAVE. If she drops the Regina di WAVE title to Ohata on 2/11, I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up here too.

 

Bad news for Stardom as Momo Watanabe suffered an ACL injury and is out for an indefinite length of time. She had been a standout since turning heel and joining Queen's Quest.

 

The good news for Stardom is that their 1/29 show was one of their best top to bottom shows that they have had in awhile. The top three matches are all really good. Hojo/Newell had some really good selling. Queen's Quest has turned into a really good trios team. KLR/Kyona was surprisingly good. Probably the best performance from Kyona in her career so far.

I'm gonna see the 1/29 soon so I'm glad you liked the show.

 

If Yamashita and Mizunami jump to Seadlinnng, you can pretty mark WAVE as pretty much dead in terms of being one of the big Joshi promotions which is crazy cause of them launching their streaming service last year. I'm starting to think that we are finally seeing the impact of Kana leaving Japan cause Reina and WAVE precence have just fallen since.

 

For Seadlinnng, I think it's brilliant Nanae is filling her promotion with wrestlers that fit her style of wrestling cause they are still relatively young. It's just that if I believe what Meltzer said in this week's Observer about Nanae and Natsuki ordering Yoshiko to shoot on Act Yasukawa (he probably got his info from Fumi Saito), then I feel even more conflicted watching Seadlinnng cause I love Nanae as a wrestler and I enjoy her shows more than Stardom honestly.

[donsem43]

Well, people were writing off Stardom after Yoshiko/Act with Takumi Iroha leaving not long after. While I think Iroha leaving and the Sendai Girls feud were going to happen irregardless, it took Io/Hojo/Iwatani working their butts off to just keep things from falling apart. The roster seems to be more stable and united with Io/Hojo at the head. They even got a couple of girls, Bito and HZK, to come back after leaving. Given how many young girls left the company while Nanae was in Stardom, SEAdLINNNG is probably better for bringing in established veterans rather than training their own. Either way, it seems like fans outside of Japan make a much bigger deal out of this than it actual seems to be.

 

WAVE's problems come more from the fact that GAMI is a really bad booker/promoter. She could have easily had a hot inter-promotional feud with SEAdLINNNG but never did anything with the opportunities that she had. Her booking of Mizunami's run to the title was terrible. After Mizunami won their big Catch the WAVE tournament she immediately lost on the next big show to Nanae, then lost her first title shot at Yuu Yamagata. So then she had to win the NEXT tournament a couple of months later before finally winning at the belt at the end of last year. It's no shock WAVE draws as badly as they do after you start to regularly follow them.

 

I don't really believe what Meltzer wrote because he also stated that Arisa blindsided JWP by leaving. Given how often she worked outside of the company the last year or so, Bolshoi would have to be an idiot to not have seen her eventually leaving.

 

Anyway, Syuri is in the main event of the Pancrase show tomorrow. Her opponent is the same size/age with similar experience, in other words her first real test. The show will be on UFC Fight Pass. Maybe if she wins here she might get on to the next UFC show in Japan.