WWE New Years "Resolution" PPV

[Slasher]

They cancelled Thunder way before WCW died. It was when they ended Nitro that WCW officially died. And what led to them cancelling Nitro? The fact that they didn't have Turner to tell the board "Never bring that idea up again" in terms to cancelling Nitro. Why? Turner lost power. Why did they decide to cancel? WCW was a money loser. They didn't have the ratings to justify keeping it. All this... built upon because of Hogan. Directly and indirectly.

[Loss]

I had a conversation with Al about the death of WCW. I actually attributed it to Hulk Hogan. He's involved in everything that went wrong with WCW, directly and indirectly. Do you agree, Loss?

Hogan had a lot to do with it, but ultimately, no. He's not 100% responsible.

[Slasher]

I did read the book and wow, what Hogan does for WCW... just terrible.

[Guest TheShawshankRudotion]

The last Thunder was a few days before the last Nitro. It had Air Raid vs. Jung Dragons on it. Maybe you are thinking of Saturday Night.

 

WCW could have been making a profit and they still probably would have pulled the plug because AOL/Time Warner didn't want to have a wrestling show on their books. I think the general theory of "No new stars elevated, no old stars moving down, no fresh storylines..." is the best theory for why WCW collapsed. Hogan is involved in that, but he's not necessarily the root cause.... a big cause... but if he wasn't there and everyone else was, WCW still probably would have went down anyways.

[sek69]

It's pretty shocking and sad how many people sound like battered wives making excuses for WWE.

 

WWE didn't mean to book the promotion that badly, baby, It'll do better next time. I swear WWE won't mess up again!

[Mad Dog]

Hogan lead the company to the only money it ever made. He takes way too much shit for the downfalls of the company.

 

Nitro and Thunder getting cancelled are ultimately what killed the company. That act allowed Vince to swoop in and buy the company. Had those shows not been cancelled Bischoff's group would've bought WCW and Rob Van Dam was going to sign with them.

[Slasher]

I had a conversation with Al about the death of WCW. I actually attributed it to Hulk Hogan. He's involved in everything that went wrong with WCW, directly and indirectly. Do you agree, Loss?

Hogan had a lot to do with it, but ultimately, no. He's not 100% responsible.

It's easy to blame others like Bischoff for having the final say. However he was in love with Hogan that he thought WCW would never die if he had Hogan. He believed Hogan WAS pro wrestling.

 

The book lists some things what Hogan does:

 

1. He had WCW sign people to guaranteed deals, when they ultimately contributed nothing to the bottom line. Ultimate Warrior, Roddy Piper, etc.

 

2. He came up with the idea to put the belt on Goldberg at a TV match, so it would appear like he drew the house when he didn't really. This cost WCW a potential gold mine of a match.

 

3. He conspired with Nick Patrick to make Sting look bad in their famous Starrcade encounter.

 

4. Fingerpoke of Doom.

 

5. Booking himself all over TV to appear indispensable so he could blackmail WCW in raising his salary.

 

6. New Blood vs Millionaire Club anyone?

 

It goes on. If you had to finger ONE guy that had the MOST to do with it, Hogan's the safest bet, with Bischoff and Nash bringing up the rear.

[Mad Dog]

The finger poke is highly overrated in the downfall of WCW. They were still pulling 5's for a good while after that. What gets ignored is that about every upper mid-carder got seriously injured during the next couple of weeks following that.

[Slasher]

What good is making a company a lot of money if you help kill it in the end?

[Mad Dog]

Hating on Hogan is the cool thing to do on the net. Like I said he lead WCW to the only money it ever made as a company. But it's cool to hate on Hogan so obviously the downfall of WCW was his fault.

 

His effect on the company pales in comparision to what Kevin Nash, Kevin Sullivan and Vince Russo did to it.

[kjh]

I had a conversation with Al about the death of WCW. I actually attributed it to Hulk Hogan. He's involved in everything that went wrong with WCW, directly and indirectly. Do you agree, Loss?

WCW died because Turner execs cancelled Nitro and Thunder. Had that event not happened WCW would still be here.

There is no guarantees that if Jamie Kellner hadn't cancelled Nitro that WCW would still be here. Fusient Media Ventures may still have pulled out of the sale when they looked at WCW's books closer and even if the sale had been completed by that point WCW was a dead brand and would need a mammoth effort to resuscitate it. If Eric Bischoff hadn't learnt from his many mistakes and continued to fritter away money, FMV probably wouldn't have put up with it for long and pulled the plug themselves.

 

With regards to who was responsible for the death of WCW, it can't be laid at the feet of any one person, even Hulk Hogan. Eric Bischoff was the one who gave him all that power and Kevin Nash, Kevin Sullivan and Vince Russo helped him book the promotion into oblivion.

[Slasher]

Hating on Hogan is the cool thing to do on the net.  Like I said he lead WCW to the only money it ever made as a company.  But it's cool to hate on Hogan so obviously the downfall of WCW was his fault.

 

His effect on the company pales in comparision to what Kevin Nash, Kevin Sullivan and Vince Russo did to it.

I've hated Hogan before it was the cool thing to do. I hated him in the 1980s. I hated him in the 1990s. I hate him in the 2000s. And to say what Kevin Sullivan did to WCW makes Hogan's shit look like nothing is absurd. Nash and Russo are debatable however. Russo provided crappy TV and nonsensical ideas. I however argue that they wouldn't have needed Russo to come to try save the company if Hogan didn't leave it in disrepair. Nash is a scumbag, but he didn't have as much influence on the company as Hogan did when WCW had the best shot of sustaining momentum. I pinpoint Starrcade vs Sting as when things started to fall apart, because things were when they were on the top, so Eric didn't really pay attention, thinking he was on the top of the world. Hogan had more influence then than Nash. Also, Nash's worst booking decision was to beat Goldberg for the belt. Well guess what? If it wasn't Nash, it was going to be Hogan doing that, as they actually agreed on this when Hogan dropped the belt to Goldberg.

[kjh]

However he was in love with Hogan that he thought WCW would never die if he had Hogan. He believed Hogan WAS pro wrestling.

And that is supposed to be Hogan's fault not Bischoff's?

 

1. He had WCW sign people to guaranteed deals, when they ultimately contributed nothing to the bottom line. Ultimate Warrior, Roddy Piper, etc.

Actually Piper contributed lots to the bottom line, as his feud with Hogan did great PPV business despite the matches absolutely sucking.

[anarchistxx]

So you read the book Loss? There's more than one side to every story, you know. I've read many books, but I don't automatically believe that everything in them is true.

 

And for the record, I hate a lot of WWE stuff. I just don't hate all of it as a way of life. If I see something good, I compliment it. It's not like I'm WWE's Number 1 Fan.

 

I Wrote

So you telling him he knows fuck all about the business

|Loss Wrote

When did I say that?

I take you back to page 4...

 

Loss Wrote

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, you have no idea what killed WCW and you apparently think WWE is every bit as strong as they were five years ago

And in actual fact, nobody would say WWE is a strong as they were five years ago. That doesn't mean everything they throw out is shit. If this were the attitude era, you'd still be finding something to complain about.

 

Oh, and by the way....

 

Loss Wrote

Do you even notice the hypocrisy there?

Loss Wrote

Are you here to debate the topic at hand or put words in my mouth?

Loss Wrote

If you want to pretend the company is still as successful as they've ever been and that they've never made mistakes,

here you are, putting words into my mouth that I never said. And you have a go at me for doing the same thing? And call me a hypocrite. Strikes me as pretty ironic, actually.

 

They don't know the same facts as me

And then you talk about me making sweeping generalizations, and you make one right here. What, are you so special that nobody could possibly know these facts but you? You have no clue whether he or I knows these facts or not.

[Loss]

I can only judge you by the words you post on this message board. And I have. I could link you to probably at least 1000 posts praising something that's happened in WWE at this board alone.

[Loss]

And as far as the death of WCW, I've heard Hogan and Nash and Bischoff and Russo state their case millions of times in radio and dirtsheet interviews, and the story just doesn't hold up. There are two sides to the story, and their side trips over itself constantly. The other side doesn't.

[sek69]

I don't get it, its like all of a sudden going against notions that were accepted as fact is the new craze on the net.

 

HHH isn't a bad guy. Hogan's misunderstood. WCW only went away because their TV was cancelled. Hell, I'm expecting to see someone praising Kevin Nash.

[Loss]

My initial thoughts in this thread were merely meant to be my honest opinions and not some calculated attempt to rain on the happiness parade over Cena losing the belt. I just thought it was a bad move to take the title off of Cena -- especially to someone who doesn't deserve the spot -- and it escalated from there.

[Guest Some Guy]

The only good I can see coming from Edge winning the title is to cause a Cena heel turn. All he really has to do is go the Diesel route from 95 and say that the "they" made him soft and that he's through listening to "them." Assuming he does well in that role then it will turn him face again within a few months and rekindle his heat.

[Loss]

I guess I'm the only one who thought they should have just ignored the boos and not changed a thing.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Cena doing a full turn might hurt the chances of "The Marine" when it is released.

 

According to the latest Observer however, Vince was said to be high on "See no Evil" and was not nearly as enthusiastic towards Cena's movie.

[Loss]

According to Bryan Alvarez at the F4W boards, The Marine isn't coming out for a long time, which does admittedly make the title change not *quite* as bad as it otherwise might have been, considering that they poured $15 million into it.

[Guest brian]

I just figured they should turn Cena loose on the mic, since the same thing happened with Rock and though Cena isn't on his level, Cena has strong mic skills and good charisma, but it's all been severely curtailed.