sek69 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 The people that complain about WWE each week are watching because the enjoyment they get from it is being able to gripe and armchair book. So that's never going to change and there never is any way to win for WWE, because those people are watching to have things to complain about in the first place. Kind of a broad brush when Smackdown has been one of the best TV shows week after week and Raw has been a slog. If someone's bashing both shows you may have a point, but I don't see much of that. Honestly, it seems like 3 hour Raws are taking their toll creatively just like they did on WCW when they had those historically awful 3 hour Nitros. The difference is WCW did it as a dick waving move and had the ability to pull back when it was obvious the toll it was taking. WWE is stuck with it since TV money is the lifeblood of the company now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 The people that complain about WWE each week are watching because the enjoyment they get from it is being able to gripe and armchair book. So that's never going to change and there never is any way to win for WWE, because those people are watching to have things to complain about in the first place. These people exist? Can we have some examples, because I've not seen them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 The people that complain about WWE each week are watching because the enjoyment they get from it is being able to gripe and armchair book. So that's never going to change and there never is any way to win for WWE, because those people are watching to have things to complain about in the first place. Kind of a broad brush when Smackdown has been one of the best TV shows week after week and Raw has been a slog. If someone's bashing both shows you may have a point, but I don't see much of that. Honestly, it seems like 3 hour Raws are taking their toll creatively just like they did on WCW when they had those historically awful 3 hour Nitros. The difference is WCW did it as a dick waving move and had the ability to pull back when it was obvious the toll it was taking. WWE is stuck with it since TV money is the lifeblood of the company now. People go into Raw every week expecting it to be bad, they hate on it the whole show, then talk about how terrible it was the next day. That's what they get out of it. People don't go into SD expecting it to be terrible and for them to hate it. They enjoy complaining about Raw more than they enjoy an actual good episode of Raw. That's pretty much the backbone of just about every wrestling message board for the past 4 years. Even when things go well, it's complaining and rebooking. That's how and why a large portion of internet fans watch today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Then your post should say "people who complain about Raw" instead of "people who complain about WWE" then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Also are you trying to make the argument that Monday's Raw didn't warrant complaints and rebooking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 You were talking about Roman's booking, so I thought that entailed Raw. I meant Raw, yes. I have no idea about last night's show, because I don't want to watch a show I know I won't like just to have something to complain about the next day. If these people hated it as much as they say, they wouldn't be watching. So, either they love to hate, or secretly like shitty shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Not to totally derail things, but I've never understood this obsession or compulsion to just simply watch shit I don't enjoy. And I'm an OCD level completist when it comes to a lot of things. But I'm not about to force myself to sit down and watch something I genuinely dislike every week. Or even once a month, for that matter. I just don't get it. Isn't there enough quality programming out there? We've been experiencing this new "golden age" of television since, what, the Sopranos hit? I mean, there are TV shows out there with phenomenal writing - and PLENTY of variety, too. Whether you're a comedy geek, a sci-fi nerd, a drama fan, or WHATEVER - there's a truckload of TV shows for you. What's the obsession with keeping up with EVERY wrestling show that drops, and then bitching about how there's "too much" content? At some point, these folks should just be thankful that the variety and quantity is out there. Nobody's holding anyone at gunpoint and making them keep up with it all. It's out there if you want to watch. If you don't, this world will not end. Life will go on. The sun will rise tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just an observation, but remember the days when the jobbers were specifically told to not look interesting or stand out at all? The Tom Stones, Brian Walsh's and Reno Riggins's of the world. Today the enhancement talents stand out more than 90% of the roster. Between some of these girls and the goofs Strowman's been squashing it looks like an eight year old's create a wrestler roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 RAW is nowhere near as bad as it gets a rap for sometime (where seemingly every show gets "Worst RAW ever!" reviews) but the stale, heatless main title scene is a huge flaw with the show, even when the main events are generally good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Smackdown: The Nikki-Natalya brawl was good enough, but the story of that match that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere yet was Charles Robinson copping major feels on Nikki during the refs’ pull-apart. Dolph-Kalisto was good. Ziggler’s much more natural as a heel, and I liked him adding his old amateur matwork, as if having YouTubed some Bockwinkel or 60s/70s heels. Also enjoyed Kalisto’s bumping and selling here – he’s underrated as an expressive, sympathetic babyface in the vein of Rey, and the finish was well done. Alpha-Wyatts was decent if disappointing: stiff offense and cool spots (with Orton doing a Stun Gun variation on Jordan) and both teams throwing crazy tackles, but the finish was quite lame and this feels like the type of PPV-level matchup that they shouldn't bother doing for five throwaway minutes on TV. I didn’t even think Carmella-Thunderkitty was that bad, aside from some lame old-timey-style punches akin to what makes Vaudevillain offense look dumb. I was surprised to not like Cena-Baron. They were overly telegraphing everything. It’s good to play to the cheap seats, but this had a lot of stalling and rest for such a short match, plus Cena pulling down the rope five seconds before Corbin goes over it and Baron giving slams that look like he's in training on Tough Enough. Good reaction for Cena though. 205 Live: Boring episode. I like the structure of having 3 singles matches in an hour, but found all 3 to be dull. I like Noam Dar as rat-faced heel, but even he’s low-rent among this otherwise charisma-free cluster of dudes. I’ve never liked Swann, but even from a character perspective having him as your champ seems like an odd, tossed-off choice. The dueling promos to close the show were good: heel Neville’s been a revelation as the new Bad News Barrett, and as he's likely the next title holder come Rumble, the division will at least structurally make a bit more sense. Main Event: Sin Cara/Darren Young vs. Shining Stars was simple and fun. The Colons, particularly Eddie (he has one bump in the corner that has to be seen to be believed), are pretty terrific as stooge heels clowning around with Backlund. Young still seems lost out there, but Sin Cara had moments to shine and the whole thing felt like it had a beginning/middle/end story in a way that lots of current WWE TV matches don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 I really liked American Alpha vs. Bray/Orton. Bray and Orton seemed like they were super motivated to have a good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Followed to its logical conclusion, this argument seems to indicate criticism should never happen. If you don't watch something you can't comment on it, right? And if you don't like something, you shouldn't watch it. So the only people who are allowed to say something are the people who have something nice to say, because if they don't have something nice to say, why are they even watching? I'm thankful for the complainers that watch and stick with it. It shows they care. It shows they believe it can be better and that it could happen any week. They haven't lost hope. That was me until like 2005. More power to the fans that are still out there like that. I don't care if points are generally positive. I care more that points are generally valid, whether I agree or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Followed to its logical conclusion, this argument seems to indicate criticism should never happen. If you don't watch something you can't comment on it, right? And if you don't like something, you shouldn't watch it. So the only people who are allowed to say something are the people who have something nice to say, because if they don't have something nice to say, why are they even watching? I'm thankful for the complainers that watch and stick with it. It shows they care. It shows they believe it can be better and that it could happen any week. They haven't lost hope. That was me until like 2005. More power to the fans that are still out there like that. I don't care if points are generally positive. I care more that points are generally valid, whether I agree or not. I don't think there was any of way going from "a large portion watch just to complain" to "no one should be able to complain". I was pointing out that those group of fans you can never satisfy because they'll complain about Roman ruining the US title then complain when he drops it because he'll just get the world title are the type of people who watch because they ENJOY complaining about it. You can never satisfy them, so there is no reason to try nor to pay much attention to them unless you also get your enjoyment from Raw by complaining about it. Much like there isn't much of a reason to pander to the smarky base that watches no matter what, unless what they want happens to crossover with larger portions of the audience. What I'm saying is keep Cesaro in the mid card forever, pls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 yeah if the idea of moving Roman to the US title scene was to placate the hardcore fans, it was dumb. Given the reaction, the only thing that would be acceptable to those people is if Roman Reigns were jobbing to Bo Dallas every week on Superstars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 No, because then they'd complain that WWE is burying their top guy. Guaranteed. Just like they complain about 50/50 booking, but the second someone doesn't get their win back, they're buried and WWE sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Is Thunderkitty that bad normally or was she deliberately playing the role of uncoordinated JCP jobber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 RAW: Wouldn’t call Rollins-Strowman good – like most RAW matches, it was arbitrary and pointless – but both played their roles well, and they’re trying to do something with Braun. Nice frog splash from Rollins too. Gallagher-Gulak may have been my favorite WWE match of the week, and it only went three minutes. Gulak finally got to be Gulak on TV, and Gallagher continues to be unexpectedly over and a hell of a worker mixing stiff strikes and headbutts with WOS spots. Cass-Jinder was nothing. Neville-Dorado was another three-minute Cruiserweight match that was way better than anything on 205 Live. Smart to have Neville develop a submission finisher for his heel run rather than the Red Arrow. Sheamus-Gallows was good, albeit with the usual bad distraction finish at the end. Hoss brawl where each guy is throwing big strikes, colliding tenaciously, and checking to see if they still have all their teeth. Charlotte/Jax-Sasha/Bailey made me wanna see the title match at the Rumble. Sasha’s new injury-prone gimmick seems forced, but the eventual heel turn makes sense. Kofi-Titus was skippable. Reigns-Owens/Jericho was stunted by being 2-on-1 handicap, a stip that hardly ever works or makes sense. The ending was particularly lumbering and sloppy in Jericho’s execution. NXT: The Royce/Kaye beatdown of Asuka, then jobbers, then Asuka again felt forced, but they need new women and have to push some. These two don’t seem like killers yet, but maybe they'll grow into the role. Samson-Cruz was a decent squash: the Drifter is hated by that crowd. Lorcan-Almas was the best match I’ve seen either guy have in NXT, such that I was amazed to hear this only went five minutes. Heated WCW style clash, albeit one with Lorcan as Cactus Jack doing a Blockbuster from the apron to the floor. Almas is much better as a heel and has a nice approach as a villain dressed in white doing floating dropkicks as arrogant high-flyer. Vicious uppercuts and suplexes from Lorcan, too: NXT needs new stars and this guy should be one of them. The DIY-Revival rematch was very good and I'd have to call it WWE's MOTW, but couldn’t possibly live up to the first two matches. Over the course of the match you start to see its purpose: to conclude the feud and start the next one. I wish it had been a bit less repetitive (this tells the same story in fast forward as the 2/3 falls match from November), but it’s interesting to see how much better Gargano seems here than he did on indies, and there’s plenty of Dawson excellence in the way he’s breaking up pins, finding teamwork opportunities, and illustrating how tags are unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Hunter is returning to Raw tomorrow. First show with no football competition. All hail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 Finally found the time to watch last week's SmackDown, and holy shit. That brawl between Nikki and Natalya was all kinds of awesome. I've enjoyed both SD women's angles immensely so far, but Nikki & Natalya could be something special if they're able to keep that chemistry in actual matches moving forward. I know it's only one segment and all, but it already has me hoping that their feud isn't just a one & done deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 I bet Hunter will make reference to MNF being done. Taking ownership of the talking point with some snarky, insider-y remark is just the kind of thing he'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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