MLW Fusion, anyone watching it?

[Migs]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

Last year's War Chamber match was mostly considered a failure though (if I remember right, and I don't remember much about it apart from this feeling of it not working). And considering how bad this whole Contra vs Lawlor & Von Erichs has been thus far, I don't have any hopes of it being any better.

Different set of circumstances, though. They really hadn't built a proper feud to blow off at War Games last year, and the match was a mess (albeit with some interesting booking ideas). I haven't loved the Contra stuff, but at least the overall energy of the feud clearly justifies the match. I don't have *high* hopes for it - but a fun brawl seems very possible.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Feel like I'm more on the Migs side of things rather than yours El-P when it comes to Contra - although think I've enjoyed more of the angle than you both! - but I agree with Migs that there's been good energy for the feud and unlike in WWE when you get a Hell in a Cell match because, well, it's time for the Hell in a Cell PPV, some sort of War Games match is logical given the way the angle has played out so far.  My main issue is that we still haven't had much more of an explanation of what is behind Contra's motivation other than, they like violence.

Fatu is clearly very good, while Gotch and Samael are pretty much bodies, but in a world where talent is being hoovered up like never before I respect trying to use booking - in terms of a group of heels going over strong since they've debuted - to get people over rather than just relying on someone with a reputation and just putting them in matches for the sake of having 'dream matches'.

Which sort of segue's onto my thoughts on last weeks show, where you essentially had a couple of squashes, some angles, video packages and then one longer main event match. I've banged on about it across several threads, but to me, this is what a wrestling TV show needs to be - it doesn't need to have lots of competitive matches that burn up your combinations - but build to big shows (the problem being with MLW of course that they seem to so often screw up the big match...but think the point still stands!) and I'd be happy if they continue with this model. The DBS Jr/Thatcher match was also a nice change of pace from some of the garbage brawls and indy spotfests they've had recently, even if it was a bit odd seeing someone like Thatcher in a TV wrestling format.   

[Migs]

Does this new relationship they've announced with the Crash give them access to anyone interesting? Is it a backdoor way to keep booking Penta and Fenix?

[TonyPulis'Cap]

An uneventful edition of Fusion last week, although I continue to enjoy the cheesy (in a good way) skits the Dynasty are doing. Still intrigued to see where they go with the Konnan blackmailing Salina stuff, but feels like they need to set up some fresh rivalries as things are starting to feel a little stale in their main programs. I am interested in seeing the War Chamber match though, even if MLW do not have the best track record when it comes to delivering on the big match...

Did anyone else catch the Hammerstone/Savio Vega match? While a nice idea on paper, and I was excited to see Savio in action going in, thinking he would bringing some old school brawling to the table, I thought he looked pretty awful in the match. I don't know if anyone else can vouch for some positive work he's done recently, but in this he brought nothing to the table, and looked all over the place. There was one awkward edit where they cut to the crowd where something probably got screwed up and then the finish is brutal looking with him taking a terrible bump where I'm shocked he didn't break both his legs. Not good.  

[Tim Evans]

I've seen Savio a few times the year> He's good at brawls and can still cut a mean heel promo in spanish. With that said, the match with Hammerstone was awful. I'm not sure why MLW brought him in to have a regular wrestling match as a babyface? I guess because of New York but he's a heel everywhere else. Even on the Island. Speaking of bringing nothing to the table. HHHammerstone didn't add much to that match either. He was dull and I find it funny they put him with MJF. The finish to the match was very brutal. A guy Savio's size and age should be taking that.

[sek69]

On 8/11/2019 at 10:10 AM, Migs said:

Does this new relationship they've announced with the Crash give them access to anyone interesting? Is it a backdoor way to keep booking Punta and Fenix?

Possibly that, but mostly it's because they got tired of getting cockblocked by ROH on all the lucha guys they tried to bring in. 

The Crash is kind of like a PWG of Mexico of sorts. Not on the workrate level, but it's more a collection of names and top indy guys in one place. 

[El-P]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:58 PM, TonyPulis'Cap said:

I've banged on about it across several threads, but to me, this is what a wrestling TV show needs to be - it doesn't need to have lots of competitive matches that burn up your combinations - but build to big shows 

I respectfully disagree. MLW shows last at best 50mn and they drag like hell because of endless replays and complete waste of time with super short squash matches. Plus MLW really never builds to anything, as the best thing they have is put random cool guy X vs random cool guy Y, as showed by that DBS Jr. vs Timothy Thatcher match, which was really solid and a cool change of pace. Plus, the old wrestling geek in me marked out at Davey saying he was gonna *procure* the crossface chicken wing.

But really, out of 50 mn, it always looks like you get at most 15 mn of actual good content every week. Meanwhile, IMPACT has a 90mn show (without commercials) that flies by, and they do pretty much nothing but competitive matches. But they don't all look like a main event style match, there's a sense of purpose and hierarchy, and their show actually builds to something. To me it's the perfect formula. And it seems easy to do. Maybe D'Amore & Callis are that good but still...

Anyway, last week's show was nothing to write home about indeed. The entire Contra vs Von Erich stuff simply doesn't work. The whole Marshall going to the hospital reeks of forced 80's wrestling cosplay. Apart from Fatu, Contra are lame as fuck in the ring (Samael is soooo cosplayish too). No idea who the new guy is, maybe he'll make the average talent go up.

I thought Savio looked ok for a 55 years old version of himself, but he's not gonna do that much and Hammerstone is generic as fuck and works a mostly dated style, so there was not much to look at. I wonder what blown spot the super rough edit was hiding. Straight ouf of a Superstar match from 1995.

Also, it strikes me how much of a star Rey Horus looked in Lucha Underground, and in MLW he's like a small luchador who does jobs. His match with Bestia was ok though, and Salina vs Konna still carries the promotion right now (doesn't say much really). An LA Park match this week, well, that could be fun, but with Havoc I should not get my expectations up too much... I dunno, MLW strikes me as mostly wasted potential and way too much of a retromaniac promotion in essence. Would love to see Salina in IMPACT or AEW, honestly. Or in a Lucha Underground last season which will never come, most probably (and really, with what cast ?).

[Migs]

The setup for the Harts-Dynasty rematch would be pretty clever, if MLW weren't running another blackmail angle at the same time.

https://mlw.com/2019/08/19/hart-foundation-challenge-dynasty-in-2-3-falls-world-tag-in-dallas/

[Tenese Sarwieh]

This week episode was a good edition with one of LA Park's better brawls with Havoc. He wasn't just going through the motions and just relying on his charisma. Kind of bummed by no Contra appearance because I'm all in on Jacob Fatu. I wish it was him instead of Hammerstone in N1 Victory because he stinks.

[Log]

I want to check out some Jacob Fatu.  Any recommendations of matches to start with?

[Migs]

4 hours ago, Log said:

I want to check out some Jacob Fatu.  Any recommendations of matches to start with?

In terms of MLW stuff, the only full match worth seeing is probably the title switch with Lawlor (and that episode I'm pretty sure had a highlight package with all the big spots from the attacks). July 6 episode of Fusion.

[Log]

Thanks, homie!

[El-P]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:37 PM, Tenese Sarwieh said:

This week episode was a good edition with one of LA Park's better brawls with Havoc.

I could not disagree more. Park was ok and actually did quite a bit of stuff, but it was still a terrible, slow, plodding, no intensity, no impact Jimmy Havoc match. I thought he looked ok in the AEW six-men where he actually worked a bit, and Sami Callihan actually got an enjoyable crazy brawl out of him (what a testament of Sami's talent, really), but this one was back to the usual Havoc dreadfullness. He can't even make his death bumps spectacular. The constant use of the dumb balsa wood boards really hurts the perception of violence too. I guess it's some Kevin Sullivan fetish.

The post match with Warner showing up with a chainsaw was another kind of idiotic too. Also, why can't Salina have Park & Havoc just beat up Konnan in the locker room and take back her phone ? He has no one in his corner. Hell, honestly, Salina looks like she could push Konnan down just grab her phone with no trouble... 

Did MLW announce a partnership with some.... scientist lab ? WTF ? 

Let's see. Apart from that episode with Park vs Wagner, which really was a AAA lucha brawl anyway, this whole summer has been a complete disappointment on the front of MLW. Salina, the Harts and MJF (and to a lesser extent Holliday) are the life of the promotion as far as regulars go. Losing Sami Callihan was, as predicted, pretty bad as far as getting grudge matches that actually deliver (Warner can be ok, but I don't care for his gimmick which is, well, way cosplayish). Contra sucks and they have done nothing of note with Jacob Fatu, it's telling there's zero match to recommend, really. I have forgotten about Tom Lawlor, who worked best as a heel anyway. Low-ki has been doing nothing but squash matches lately, because we really need to establish that guy who has been around for 20 years and was the Champ for the longest time. The Von Erichs have done nothing yet to show they deserve to be in that spot (they have not sucked either, but have not shown much either). Savio showing up was a letdown. Aries showing up has been a letdown thus far.

At this point, I'd just hope for the few cool guys and Salina to show up in either IMPACT or AEW (apart from Havoc, whom they can keep), because I'm having a hard time even wanting to keep up with this promotion. Not sure I would bother anymore if it wasn't on Youtube...

[Tenese Sarwieh]

On 8/21/2019 at 7:20 PM, El-P said:

I could not disagree more. Park was ok and actually did quite a bit of stuff, but it was still a terrible, slow, plodding, no intensity, no impact Jimmy Havoc match. I thought he looked ok in the AEW six-men where he actually worked a bit, and Sami Callihan actually got an enjoyable crazy brawl out of him (what a testament of Sami's talent, really), but this one was back to the usual Havoc dreadfullness. He can't even make his death bumps spectacular. The constant use of the dumb balsa wood boards really hurts the perception of violence too. I guess it's some Kevin Sullivan fetish.

The post match with Warner showing up with a chainsaw was another kind of idiotic too. Also, why can't Salina have Park & Havoc just beat up Konnan in the locker room and take back her phone ? He has no one in his corner. Hell, honestly, Salina looks like she could push Konnan down just grab her phone with no trouble... 

Did MLW announce a partnership with some.... scientist lab ? WTF ? 

Let's see. Apart from that episode with Park vs Wagner, which really was a AAA lucha brawl anyway, this whole summer has been a complete disappointment on the front of MLW. Salina, the Harts and MJF (and to a lesser extent Holliday) are the life of the promotion as far as regulars go. Losing Sami Callihan was, as predicted, pretty bad as far as getting grudge matches that actually deliver (Warner can be ok, but I don't care for his gimmick which is, well, way cosplayish). Contra sucks and they have done nothing of note with Jacob Fatu, it's telling there's zero match to recommend, really. I have forgotten about Tom Lawlor, who worked best as a heel anyway. Low-ki has been doing nothing but squash matches lately, because we really need to establish that guy who has been around for 20 years and was the Champ for the longest time. The Von Erichs have done nothing yet to show they deserve to be in that spot (they have not sucked either, but have not shown much either). Savio showing up was a letdown. Aries showing up has been a letdown thus far.

At this point, I'd just hope for the few cool guys and Salina to show up in either IMPACT or AEW (apart from Havoc, whom they can keep), because I'm having a hard time even wanting to keep up with this promotion. Not sure I would bother anymore if it wasn't on Youtube...

For me that was the most I've enjoyed MLW in a good while, this promotion just moves at a snail's pace. Hopefully the NOAH guys will give it the jolt that it needs.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Tenese Sarwieh said:

this promotion just moves at a snail's pace.

That's another thing that doesn't help. With how they operate, they should just burn through whatever "dream" indy matches they can deliver quickly as much as they can, because people tend to come and go. Instead they try to build and build and build toward.... not much of anything. Add in the fact every big match they deliver after a long build ends up a disappointment, they really should focus on building week to week. In term of scale, they are not even IMPACT. Yet they try to make their product be like weekly WWF from 1995, without any actual PPV. Well, I'm intrigued enough about how they will actually deliver one in November, if I can still keep my interest above sea level until then.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Not too much to get excited about from the last couple of weeks of TV, although I did really enjoy the Teddy Hart/MJF main event from the most recent show. I like the chemistry that these two have, both in terms of in ring but also in their outside the ring interactions. You would never describe Teddy as the most sympathetic of babyfaces, but it's a massive credit to how much of a douchey heel MJF is by the fact he makes Teddy come across as a valiant hero. Given they have such different in ring styles they make the contrast really work and I think this is the second 1 on 1 match up in MLW between them I've really dug. As others have pointed out the Hart Foundation/Dynasty rivalry has been consistently the best part of the promotion.  

[El-P]

No Salina ? Really ?

Well, sorry to say, but Jacob Fatu was kinda exposed as an "decent" worker in a long match against Tom Lawlor. Yeah, it does some great spots, but if he was as good as he's supposed to be, he would have a much stronger match than this. Maybe Lawlor just isn't very good or compelling after all. The pulled strikes really look bad, I mean, he kicks like the Miz. I dunno, it was an "ok" match, but considering the average level of matches today on weekly TV. I mean, Fallah Baah and Moose had a match ten times as good on IMPACT TV the other week. Maybe MLW just isn't conducive to have any really good matches for some odd reason. When AEW TV begins, I may have to drop this, since there's so much hours I can devote to pro-wrestling in a week. Let's see if they can pull off an interesting cage match, but at this point, I have zero expectations of it being very good or even fun.

[Migs]

I'm not sure Lawlor is a great opponent for Fatu. Or maybe he's just a terrible underdog babyface. I'd be curious to see Fatu in a singles match with someone else (all the other stuff I've seen of his has been tag matches with Samael where he's basically the scarier John Kronus to Samael's New Jack in ECW-style brawls). 

The apparently are scraping another week out of the NYC taping before they show the War Games match, but at least there's a Hart Foundation match lined up. But I'm with you, they are very much on the edge of getting dropped for me. I have tickets to the next NYC show in December, so I might try and hang on until then. Struggling to see what they could put on PPV that would get me to part with even $20.

[SirEdger]

I think the last Fusion episode I watched was the one with Davey Boy Jr vs Timothy Thatcher. Decided to switch to SMASH Wrestling on a regular basis, going forward.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

Feel like I'm the lone person round here who still enjoys MLW! I can absolutely see the criticisms people have... but I enjoyed last week's show, and thought it was a good episode, in fact one of the stronger ones for a while.

Just having the two matches meant both got some time - often MLW have really short changed their main events. The opener was indyriffic, both in terms of the action and also the look of the guys in the match, but the action was fun. And I liked the main event. The criticisms about Lawlor's strikes, I can very much see, as is often the way when you get legit MMA guys/boxers they end up over compensating and pulling things, and the match did get a bit repetitive, which can perhaps be chalked up to Fatu's inexperience or being asked to 'do more' than just his spots, but overall I liked it much better than others seemed to, with Lawlor's fire at the beginning making it more compelling than their first match.

The closing angle was very much booking 101 when it comes to setting up a 4 on 4 match, but the reveal of Low Ki as the final member of Lawlor's team got a strong reaction and made sense in storyline as Contra targeted him a few months back. I'm looking forward to the cage match, although not them trying to squeeze another week out of the New York shows as Migs says. I wonder if Ki is being set up to be Fatu's challenger for the PPV. 

[Migs]

1 hour ago, TonyPulis'Cap said:

I wonder if Ki is being set up to be Fatu's challenger for the PPV. 

That makes sense to me and would be a match I'm interested in.

6 hours ago, SirEdger said:

Decided to switch to SMASH Wrestling on a regular basis, going forward.

I've been watching PCW Ultra's Youtube show, and it might be jumping MLW in the line for me... it's a very easy watch.

[bobholly138]

On 9/7/2019 at 6:10 AM, TonyPulis'Cap said:

Feel like I'm the lone person round here who still enjoys MLW! I can absolutely see the criticisms people have... but I enjoyed last week's show, and thought it was a good episode, in fact one of the stronger ones for a while.

Just having the two matches meant both got some time - often MLW have really short changed their main events. The opener was indyriffic, both in terms of the action and also the look of the guys in the match, but the action was fun. And I liked the main event. The criticisms about Lawlor's strikes, I can very much see, as is often the way when you get legit MMA guys/boxers they end up over compensating and pulling things, and the match did get a bit repetitive, which can perhaps be chalked up to Fatu's inexperience or being asked to 'do more' than just his spots, but overall I liked it much better than others seemed to, with Lawlor's fire at the beginning making it more compelling than their first match.

The closing angle was very much booking 101 when it comes to setting up a 4 on 4 match, but the reveal of Low Ki as the final member of Lawlor's team got a strong reaction and made sense in storyline as Contra targeted him a few months back. I'm looking forward to the cage match, although not them trying to squeeze another week out of the New York shows as Migs says. I wonder if Ki is being set up to be Fatu's challenger for the PPV. 

I am still loving MLW Fusion each week. And just found out my buddy Andy Dalton teamed with the Spirit Squad on an upcoming episode.

[Migs]

I actually thought this week was pretty good for a filler episode. Pillman-Holliday had a cute finish. Ki's promo was good. Hammerstone looked better than expected in Japan.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:05 PM, Migs said:

I actually thought this week was pretty good for a filler episode. Pillman-Holliday had a cute finish. Ki's promo was good. Hammerstone looked better than expected in Japan.

Yeah, it turned out being a better show than I thought it would going in when you heard it would include matches from different tapings and a match from NOAH. Hammerstone looked decent in the match, with good presence, although as a few people have pointed out, seeing less people there than you get for a regular MLW show was a bit jarring. Also, of you were taking a drink for everytime the commentators talked about the lack of noise that Japanese fans make then you'd have a sore head the next morning. 

This isn't an MLW specific point, but I've always wondered if a weekly wrestling TV show with matches from different events and arenas in the mold of a sports highlight show like a Match of the Day here in the UK, would work rather than the more traditional model of a wrestling show that we typically get from most companies.   

 

[Migs]

3 hours ago, TonyPulis'Cap said:

This isn't an MLW specific point, but I've always wondered if a weekly wrestling TV show with matches from different events and arenas in the mold of a sports highlight show like a Match of the Day here in the UK, would work rather than the more traditional model of a wrestling show that we typically get from most companies.   

 

That's sort of the ROH model most weeks now and what I've seen of it works fine.