Is TNA the worst wrestling promotion in history?

[El-P]

It's fascinating how quickly TNA is spiraling down in the fall of 2013 (and that's after two years of Brucie boring the fuck out of me). The heel turn of Dixie Carter is so ironic, as the idea that the Carters did not value AJ Styles was, well, pretty real, as he would refuse a bullshit contract a few months later and leave, all for the best for him. The two matches with Bully Ray (one at Bound for Glory with the infamous canvas removed spot, which Bully had done before, and the following TV show) will be his last real highlights in a company that he carried for so long until he was put on the back-burner once Dixie took control and then Brucie thought he had been there for too long to put him back on top and saw fit to shove colorless Bobby Roode down the throat of the audience (and then one year + of godawful Aces & Eight stuff).

Maybe the most hilarious thing of all, especially with the hindsight of Jarrett's podcast telling the stories of Russo always being in the ear of Dixie and the Carters basically wanting control for her daughter to have a job, is that on the day Russo was "officially" back on the payroll (like, just a few weeks after Hogan was finally gone, what a waste of money this was) as a "consultant", heel Dixie Carter was not on one, not on two, not on three, but on FOUR segments of the show, opening and closing it. And that the only new character of note that was gonna be pushed, was a NXT reject (from the very first NXT that everybody has seemingly forgotten) named after... Dixie Carter. The fact *this* guy was the new hot shit was also telling, after years of actual WWE names, for better and often worse, showing up in the company. Standards and financials had definitely dropped (and so many people had been cut or left already). But yeah, Dixie oh Dixie. She's SO BAD it's actually pretty entertaining to watch. At least it's not Aces & Eights anymore, and so bad it's funny will always beat dull & boring bad. 

[El-P]

Random appearances on TNA :

Peter Avalon as a scrawny jabronie killed by ECIII. I did not even recognize him before a backstage segment ! Crazy.

Candice LaRae doing a job for Gail Kim, in the same show as the aforementioned Avalon segment.

[SirEdger]

I definitely remember the Peter Avalon/Norv Fernum squash but I don't even remember that Candice LeRae ever worked a TNA event.

[El-P]

Yep, the Turning Point TV special (as this was not a PPV anymore, just an IMPACT show billed as a special edition).

BTW, gotta say how ridiculous it is when TNA is actually doing a better job than WWE is term of following-up the copycat Summer of Punk angle with AJ Styles, as after he won the title and quit, they show stuff on TV paid by "Friends of AJ" from him defending the title in the UK, in AAA and in AJPW. Of course AJ would leave anyway, but those vignettes is already much better than anything WWE did with Punk.

Also, Samuel Shaw as a creepy stalker was actually pretty good. Because it was creepy. And Christy Hemme back then was just so ridiculously *RESPECTFULLY*.

Fuck me. Rockstar Spud. Yeah, ya can feel this is an entire new TNA that's unveiling before your eyes... Gotta say, at least it's not boring like Brucie's was. I take cringe over boring any day.

[El-P]

On 5/25/2022 at 8:38 PM, SirEdger said:

I definitely remember the Peter Avalon/Norv Fernum squash but I don't even remember that Candice LeRae ever worked a TNA event.

And Laura Dennis was Gail Kim's next victim. That's Allie. Fun to see them pop up before they got their name around.

[SirEdger]

I definitely remember Allie as Laura Dennis though.

[Stiva]

If I remember right, I don’t think you’re far off the great Spud vs ECIII match from England. That’s easily one of the top 5/10 things TNA have ever done

[El-P]

On 6/2/2022 at 8:49 AM, Stiva said:

If I remember right, I don’t think you’re far off the great Spud vs ECIII match from England. That’s easily one of the top 5/10 things TNA have ever done

This happened the following year.

Interestingly enough and with the advantage of hindsight and not having to care about financial disarray and how the promotion was crumbling from within, the first half of 2014 was actually the most fun TNA has been since, well, let's say Hogan's first year, but this was perverse entertainment. So rather the last months of 2009. One reason being that they introduced a number of good characters.

Yeah, the whole "new shares owner" storyline was a complete rehash of every TNA storyline ever and every heel authority figure WWE had overdone for 15 years, but MVP was such a great talker that he made it work. And I'm gonna say this, for all her faults, I thought Dixie actually was fun in this role. She overplayed her cringy PR self to great degrees, she got better as the weeks went. And the other thing is : ECIII and Rockstar Spud were terrific dance partners both with themselves, but with Dixie as well. Crazy to think WWE never pushed ECIII to the moon when they got him back, the guy is everything they want, good body, good promo, can work comedy and serious stuff and was probably better in the ring than in 2014. Magnus on the other hand, well let's say that's where he learned to do the "Heel champ" stuff he's developed with NWA on promos, but he was still very lacking in the ring. Once the title was off of him (and he quickly got demoted to midcard stuff with Bram), things got much better.

Bobby Lashley coming back was quite a catch too, he gave another vibe and had improved since his last WWE stint. Basically him with MVP (and Kenny King) was the prototype to what they have done in WWE the last few years.

I thought the Eric Young rise was done really well and it came off organically, from his storyline with Joseph Parks leading to the comeback of Abyss, which was well done and progressed logically, to how he ended up actually winning the title and then was piling legit victories over legit guys like Bobby Roode. And he was killing it in the ring. The tree-way cage match with Aries and Lashley at Slammiversary was excellent, with some terrific stuff from all three guys.

Bully Ray coming back as a babyface and screwing Dixie also was a good, long-term storyline and made for a terrific match at Slammiversary with ECIII. Dixie was gonna get hers in the end, as she did in the cage match at Lockdown. That's another thing, for all the talk about Stephanie, she really only did the character for a few months, was involved in two major feuds after the departure of AJ & Sting (which really made real life issue into building her character) and lost at the end each time. And it helped build ECIII in the meantime, with big matches against Angle & Bully.

The Samuel Shaw storyline with Chrissy Hemme was amazingly creepy and the guy was excellent in his role, as was Hemme, although typically that's kind of a one note gimmick that only gonna be used so much. Case in point, after he lost the final match to Mr. Anderson (who really is underrated as a trooper worker in TNA, the guy was pretty much decent in every role and always got over thanks to his mic skills), it turned into ridiculous vignettes involving Gunner, a guy who had probably a good feud with James Storm but fuck Gunner. That segment at Shaw's home with his mother, a redhead hot mom called... Chrissy, was something else though. I bet that was Borash.

The Wolves were a very good addition in term of heavy workrate tag-team, much needed after TNA lost so many great workers, Samoa Joe was put back in the mix and was having some of his best work in years, the Bromans & DJZ were efficient in their roles, underrated talent and really annoying gimmicks.

The X-Division got an interesting twist with SANADA as champ, which I had no idea even happened. They also did some really cool vignettes for him, talking with Muto (he was in Wrestle-1 then) about representing Japanese pro-wrestling, all in Japanese and subtitled, which was way ahead of its time (hell, it really still isn't done now). They also got a AAA luchador by Tigre Uno, got a bunch of matches together, that felt different and fresh. The multi-men ladder match at Slammiversary was pretty terrific.

The comeback of Madison Rayne (as a face, which is always kinda odd) and the  Beautiful People brought a different dynamic again, but way too much booking fuckery on that front. Gail Kim was still carrying that division on her back, now as a face again by the time Slammiversary came.

Of course not everything was good. Willow was *awful* What a stupid idea from Jeff Hardy. Bram trying to turn Magnus into the "old self" was yawn inducing at best. 

I gotta say although I care for exactly none of the workers involved, the Menagerie was an interesting presentation, and Rebel was stealing the spotlight for very obvious reasons. Kinda fun to see her pre-AEW too.

So yeah, not *that much* Russoesque stuff, although you can spot some of his ideas here and there, but he basically worked as an undercover consultant until the Summer when he was gone for good (and this is another switch soon with the Hammerstein tapings and the six-side ring coming back). It really feels like a different promotion already, of a much smaller scale, but more fun to watch because of it. Much easier and fun to watch than the two years of booking borefest under Prichard.

[El-P]

Dixie Carter finally put through a table by Bully Ray at the Manhattan Center in front of a totally rabid crowd was legit one of the best angle TNA ever did. And really, those tapings are even better than the previous ones, with the Hardy reuniting (yeah, I know, but back then it was a big deal, kinda, and would lead toward Broken Matt), SANADA turning on Great Muta, Low-ki coming back, Aries vs Lashley, Taryn Terell being back too. Not everything was good of course (the Samuel Shaw "babyface" turn with Gunner), but overall the product was so much better and fresher than it had been during the last few years. It's sadly ironic that it was too late and Spike would just get rid of it. 

To get back at Dixie, yeah, I just said it, Dixieland >>>>> anything during the Prichard era. Dixie/EC3/Rockstar Spudd had great chemistry, the angle was well built, with things actually progressing (as opposed to Prichard booking which went at a snail pace) toward the apex at the best place possible. Dixie at the Manhattan Center was getting Cornette at ECW Arena level heat, and by then she had developed into a really fun performer. And DAMN, that bump she took. Bully protected her from the table, but she bumped really hard on the mat. Looked brutal. They replayed it about a thousand times, from every angles.

The thing was masterfully built, with the kinda cute use of WWECW rejects (Snitsky & Big Zeke) to troll Team 3D and Tommy Dreamer, they had Al Snow come off retirement to work the 8 men brawl, complete with heads distributed to the audience for the 1997-like visual effect. EC3 & Spud was such a great duo, EC3 being a trooper despite his in-ring limitations (he's ok) and Spud his great comedic self. Great cherry on the cake with Dixie trying to run off at the end and being blocked by the entire TNA roster showing up to block the ramp (very meta if you ask me), leading to that hellacious bump and that insane pop, really reminiscent of old ECW atmosphere indeed. Seriously a great, GREAT angle, during a time where the promotion looked to be on the right track creatively (but the damaged had been done).

[El-P]

Interestingly enough, after a later part of 2014 that was pretty slow (but still mostly fun) and the really odd (but cool) Bound for Glory show from Korakuen Hall, pretty much totally detached from most of the booking, the 2015 re-debut in New York then in Great Britain was again a super fun and easy product to watch, culminating with the awesome ECIII vs Rockstar Spud match in London. I actually enjoyed the long-term James Storm vs Mickie James angle (you know, the one which culminated with Storm pushing Mickie on subway tracks, very LUesque infact), as James always shines in this kind of relationship-based angles, and James Storm's character as an evil cult leader was actually refreshing (and hell, he was making much more sense than Bray Wyatt ever did too). Best feud Nick Aldis ever did, really, although he did not bring anything special in the grudge match at the end. Tons of strong matches week-in week-out with the Wolves, Young, Aries, Roode, Lashley, Angle as well as the Beat Down Clan, and a few crazy performances by Jeff Hardy.

And then Samoa Joe leaves quietly. Taz leaves quietly. And Billy Corgan gets in creative.... and things take a notable downturn. Just like the announcing team of Josh Matthews (who was perfectly fine alongside Callis and Madison Rayne later on) and Pope which gets really bad really fast, the booking gets way more gimmicky and screwy, almost Russoesque at times. It's really striking how quality drops super fast once Corgan gets on board (around May). By the time we get to the show following-up Slammiversary (basically an afterthought of a show, despite an awesome Aries vs Richards match), there's shitload of bullshit on the TV show. Jarrett & Karen showing up was kinda cool though.

[El-P]

X-division champ Tigre Uno cutting a promo defending the people of Mexico after Trump's racist campaign was quite the nice and unexpected turn of event. Cool.
X-division champ Tigre Uno challenging Trump to show up at the Impact Zone so he can show him the pride of Mexican culture was true wrestling carny shit. Oh... TNA...

Serena Deeb showed up on the same show BTW in a rare TNA appearance (to work a mixed tag with Storm against Mickie James & Magnus the following week)

Taryn Terell went from an awesome babyface to whatever the Dollhouse embarrassment was supposed to be. Then again, that girl gave it all and was entertaining anyway. And Gail Kim is a fucking ninja now apparently. Holy shit, Billy Corgan not buying TNA really saved the company in the long run, his booking is straight out of Russo's playbook, repetitive, over-gimmicky, swervy... 

The obsession with every babyface saying how the fans were the most important thing (Drew Gallaway kinda cringeworthy pandering promos) is a reminder that 2015 was really the year of WWE turning itself brutally against its own audience.

[sek69]

On 8/13/2022 at 5:14 AM, El-P said:

And DAMN, that bump she took. Bully protected her from the table, but she bumped really hard on the mat. Looked brutal. They replayed it about a thousand times, from every angles.

IIRC she ended up with a fractured vertebrae from that bump. 

[Alucard]

I thought once Corgan got settled in, things got really good. 2016 being one of my favorite years of Impact when things were firing on all cylinders with the legendary Broken Hardys saga, Lashley having a career run as champ, Decay, and great work from Drew, EC3, Mike Bennett, Eddie Edwards, etc.

I admit I did love the Dollhouse. Even though original super babyface Taryn was still my favorite version of her, she managed to pull off a great heel run too. Still an entertaining heel today in NWA but never matched that initial babyface run.

Of course the music was one of my favorite things Corgan introduced (Hole for Dollhouse, Marilyn Manson for Decay, and briefly using his own music for Spud), which makes it all the more strange how completely opposite Billy is today with the NWA as far as not wanting to use theme music.

[El-P]

7 hours ago, Alucard said:

I thought once Corgan got settled in, things got really good. 2016 being one of my favorite years of Impact when things were firing on all cylinders with the legendary Broken Hardys saga, Lashley having a career run as champ, Decay, and great work from Drew, EC3, Mike Bennett, Eddie Edwards, etc.

Beware with the pimping, you know how I've been badly burned by comments like these before (2001 WCW is really good, 2011-2013 TNA is the best TNA)  But yeah, I'm actually looking forward to getting in 2016 because I know there is some at least intriguing stuff then. 

7 hours ago, Alucard said:

I admit I did love the Dollhouse. Even though original super babyface Taryn was still my favorite version of her, she managed to pull off a great heel run too. Still an entertaining heel today in NWA but never matched that initial babyface run.

The idea of the Dollhouse is kinda cool, but the execution was hokey as hell. Marti Bell is just... not very good, and Mia Yim was a total miscast in the role. Taryn on the other hand, that girl is an absolute forgotten gem. She had no right to be as good as she was, and she indeed was all in on every role she did and made the crazy sexy-doll character entertaining. I've seen a bit of her current NWA stuff and yeah, she's funny as fuck. I would LOVE to have her back in IMPACT today. 

[El-P]

The Jeff Jarrett vs Dixie Carter's promos in September about holding shares in the company and power overturns are absolutely fascinating considering this entire angle was basically real life, as basically the Carter's were legit buying Jarrett out for good after he left in 2013, so they agreed on the HoF spot and GFW promotion on their TV (well, what was left of it) in exchange for Jarrett going the fuck away (until he came back with Anthem.... before leaving again, because he's Jeff Jarrett). I can't wait to hear the podcast episode about that one. 

[El-P]

Wow, TNA in 2015 was some other level of bullshit. Bound for Glory was a pretty depressing show, despite the nice X-division opener and a good main event marred by a shit finish. But the show itself was pretty heatless, Kurt Angle looked like he was on the very last string, Awesome Kong vs Gail King really underlined how Kong was banged up, as it was nowhere near as good as their great matches from 2007, although Kong did the best she could and Kim was just her great self. 

TNA had 2 PPV and none mattered. Slammiversary was like a TV special in passing (because the TV was already taped). And Bound for Glory happening in late September while the entire TV left for the year had been taped in late July, which is pretty much unheard of. So after the Matt Hardy win on PPV, he just relinquish the title because of a bullshit injunction angle, and they basically run the World Title Series for the remainder or the year. Total AWA in 1990 vibe. 

Funny though, to see that Corgan was already pushing Tyrus back then... 

[El-P]

Random fact of TNA : Kurt Angle's last appearance, which happened in England and really was a very nice send-off in front of a big crowd, which TNA still had in the UK back then, also saw a King of the Mountain match involving Big Damo, Jimmy Havoc and Will Ospreay ! Talk about forgotten stuff ! 

Early 2016 was also MUCH better than 2015. Big Money Matt Hardy as the heel champ with Rebi (she's a born heel), ECIII babyface turn, Mike Benett & Maria Kanellis, Decay, a nostalgia run by Beer Money, Mia Yim (as Jade) getting a push in a much more kick-ass incarnation of the Dollhouse. Lots of stuff that gave the product a fresher feel. 

[Embrodak]

Caught some Impact when I was visiting my dad for Xmas, and whatever else one might say about it, their women’s division is a lot better presented than AEW’s, despite having worse performers overall.

[El-P]

Despite the good premises, TNA in 216 was actually mostly dreadful in term of output. The only people holding the thing together are the Hardy family (Jeff, Matt & Rebi) doing their crazy thing, and do they go crazy, Maria Kanellis as a complete unbearable entitled delusional Karen (meanwhile, the try-hard overpush of Mike Bennett is giving me retroactive PTSD, and I do like Bennett today but this was painfull as all hell) with Allie at her side (damn, she was so great in her role, give the Bunny some food already, she can do so much) and Lashley/Galloway/ECIII as top guys. But WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH talking all the time, an X-division rendered into an afterthought (I guess Corgan did not like the flippy dudes, uh, I mean, Tyrus was right there, that's talent), Decay was a cool presentation but it was still Abyss & Crazy Steve, mind you.... Slammiversary was actually a really good show, but the weekly TV is just a complete drag to get through most of the time. Al Snow with two French assholes (legit) doing goofy shit with Grado & Shera is everything you need to know about the undercards, alongside Eli Drake lame as hell "talk show" segment which made his entire gimmick so tired back then already (dummie, yeah, gawwwwd shut the fuck up).

[El-P]

David Starr. Talk about some random appearance.

Gotta say, the entire Broken Matt stuff is amazing to watch even all those years later. Complete insanity and legit funny as hell at points. "Obsolete mule" ! 

Ok, Mike Benett is basically the Honky Tonk Man. It wouldn't be so annoying if he just wasn't so overexposed. Him being awkward as hell working X-division matches is actually funny.

They are doing a good job with the Eddie Edward single push, and the matches against Lashley (who by that point really has developed into a complete deal, promo included) are terrific.

No idea Rosemary actually got an origin story ! They really were doing cool things with the outside the ring stuff, probably the influence of LU, which is something I would gladly have a lot more.

Hey, Moose debut. 

Summer is actually getting better.

[Stiva]

I assume you’ve been watching them but did their PPVs from around 2014 or so, that all seemed to have the same theme year on year (World Cup in the summer, the Extreme Rules knock off etc) even tie into the main product? I seem to recall that they’d tape them months ahead of time and I’ve always wondered if they were ever worth watching 

[El-P]

3 minutes ago, Stiva said:

I assume you’ve been watching them but did their PPVs from around 2014 or so, that all seemed to have the same theme year on year (World Cup in the summer, the Extreme Rules knock off etc) even tie into the main product? I seem to recall that they’d tape them months ahead of time and I’ve always wondered if they were ever worth watching 

I've only watched a select few, mostly the women only PPV because it's interesting to see how the scene was evolving at this point, but nope, they were not related at all to the TV show. Not canon, if you will. The fact some were showed months after the fact made it impossible anyway to tie them with the ungoing product. I have no idea why anyone thought it was a good idea, and I'm pretty sure no one watched these back then.

[ButchReedMark]

They were contractually owed to Challenge in the UK which is why they were made. 

[El-P]

Ironically enough, I'm right at the point before BFG 16 when rumors of a sale were going crazy, as they had no money left to even fund the PPV. And remember who debuted at BGF 2016 ? CODY !!! 

The product has taken a dramatic turn for the better during the summer, after a dire four months, with Lashley as world champion, the feud with Eddie Edwards, the debut of Moose, the Grand Championship gimmick (three rounds of three minutes with judges, interesting enough gimmick when the right guys are working the matches, like Drew and Eddie).

But the product was really carried by two main stuff : the Broken Hardy saga, which was insanely absurd and great at every turn (like they took the best aspect of LU and made it their own and pushed it further, with a very self-aware sense of how absurd it was, which kept it fun) and got so over as its own thing that soon enough, the entire Broken family was reunited as babyfaces, leading with the very enjoyable, horror movie inspired feud with Decay, but then again, absolutely playing with its own absurdity (as opposed to the ridiculous pseudo-deep Wyatt LORE) and carried on Decay's side by Rosemary's character. And the other being the Maria Kanellis/Allie storyline which again was 95% angles since Maria isn't really a worker and Allie's character is that she is not a worker either. Yet this is just classic pro-wrestling at its finest, and Allie is just killing the game of a worker playing a non-worker (she's seriously great at it, better than anything I've seen), going from absolutely unbearable at first (that voice) to adorable when she's getting bullied by Kanellis, who herself is terrific in this role, a cowardly fake lady in denial, ready to flip her lid at any moment. This is intertwined with Kanellis long time feud with Gail, who was the Bret Hart of the division, really. You want some character work and great angles, well, this is it.

On the other hand, Aron Rex (that's Damian Sandow) coming in as a serious main event level guy was vintage LOLTNA and really came off lame as all hell. Like Corgan did not learn anything from the company's former mistakes. And it's not like he was a super worker either. Can't be taken seriously, brings jackshit in term of in-ring work. Yep, a really dumb idea. It's interesting to see that a bunch of people he was using then he's gonna get back in the NWA later on : Bram, Marti Bell, Aron, Tyrus. 

There was a real effort done on vignettes and video packages too at this time, which alongside the entire Broken Hardy stuff made the product look like super well produced (despite the monetary issues the promotion was having). Still, at this time, this was basically a soon-to-be-dead promotion on paper. And there comes Anthem...

[El-P]

The last months of Dixie Carter's TNA really smelled like a dying promotion again. Sure, there is Cody and Brandi Rhodes showing up for a cup of coffee (Cody defeating Mike Benett is a meh match and then having an very good one putting over World Champ Eddie Edward), but you soon see the impeding signs of doom again during the last tapings, in a darkened Impact Zone. Aron Rex has already reverted into an annoying semi-comical figure, doing a "hidden foreign object" angle like it's 1985 (the guy is right at home in the NWA). Talk about a guy who was praised as underrated for nothing while doing his best stuff in WWE. Interestingly enough, he's also very much influenced by Lanny Poffo (without having half of his skills). The undercard feud of The Tribunal (the only legit french workers in a US TV company since Andre ?) vs Al Snow & Mahabali Shera is a complete waste of time (and Shera, talk about a guy who never improved one bit, he still shows up in IMPACT from time to time and is the same mediocre worker he was then). 

Then you have the DCC aka James Storm (they apparently had no idea for him anymore), Bram (same) and Eddie Kingston doing a crappy "creepy" Anonymous inspired gimmick. At least it introduced Kingston I guess.

The X-div is really kind of an afterthought, although you have really good guys like DJZ and Trevor Lee feuding aginst each other seemingly over and over and over again, all of it seeming aimless.

ECIII always in the main event scene and falling to recapture the title is ok, and the guy was a great babyface just like he was a great heel. Fine enough worker too. All thing considered, I enjoy him way more than I thought I would. The rise of Eli Drake is pretty ok too, although the constant gimmickry in his promos gets annoying fast. Can't believe he's still doing the same exact thing in WWE as I write this. The year kinda logically concludes with a match between ECIII and Eddie, who really was carrying the promotion as a workhorse all year long alongside Lashley, with a kinda crappy shit-finish no-contest.

Decay has been a case of the whole being much better than the sum of its part, the whole thing being carried by Rosemary's character work. She ends up winning the vacated women's title, as Gail Kim is clearly going toward retirement because of piling injuries. Kinda crazy Rosemary never ended up in WWE at some point, although I have no doubt they would have misused her completely.

Really now, Allie & Matt Hardy are the MVP of the promotion in 2016, both for their character work. Allie slowly developing into an actual worker and confronting the excellent Maria & Laurel Von Ness (a platinum blonde Chelsea Green) keeps the arc going and she's awesome at every turn. Like I said, I've never seen a better instance of a worker doing the "non-worker" gimmick, she's awesome at every turn (in-ring work, promos, big angles, backstage vignettes) and such a great lovable babyface. The Broken Matt stuff is just gold absurdity, all of it. Fitting that the year would end with a Broken Matt show, with yet another ridiculously fun cinematic match (and Rockstar Spud doing the job for 1 year old King Maxel, because of course he would). Gotta love of Matt was throwing so many stuff at the Bucks of Youth, as this was the hype of the days.

The disappearance in screen of both Corgan (who was doing a good job actually as an authority figure) and Dixie Carter was the sign of the looming changes in the company. On paper, 2017 looks pretty terrible, and not just because Alberto el Patron was brought on board (that guarantes tons of FF), but also Dutch Mantell's Make Impact Great Again stuff, Corny & Brucie aka two irrelevant boomers yelling at clouds being brought back for a short while, the GFW debacle (which looks interesting from a backstage standpoint) and so many people leaving, including of course the Hardies, who were one of the only thing that made the company interesting in 2016. Seems like really, after Anthem bought the thing, it did not settle into the quality product it became before they gave the book to D'Amore in 2018.