Benoit brain examination findings to be released tomorrow

[Guest *FH*]

To prove how concussions are more ingrained in the macho mindset and not just a wrestling centric issue, Jon Kitna of the Detroit Lions had a concussion that knocked him out of last week's game, only to return in the 4th quarter to seal the win. Not only was he allowed to return to a game the same day he had a concussion, he was taking all sort of Foley-esque hits in the process that surely wasn't good for a recently mushed brain.

And on ESPN the next day, they were praising his leadership. Christ.

[Bix]

nevermind.

[Bix]

To prove how concussions are more ingrained in the macho mindset and not just a wrestling centric issue, Jon Kitna of the Detroit Lions had a concussion that knocked him out of last week's game, only to return in the 4th quarter to seal the win. Not only was he allowed to return to a game the same day he had a concussion, he was taking all sort of Foley-esque hits in the process that surely wasn't good for a recently mushed brain.

Funny that you mention the macho mindset, as Chris Nowinski was on TSN's Off The Record, and defended the WWE's response that they had no knowledge of Benoit having concussions. Nowinski's response was that the WWE, much like other sports organizations, don't have actual doctors on hand for that type of analysis, and instead just have emergency doctors who'll send you to a hospital ASAP whenever necessary, which is where you may receive the prognosis of a concussion. It's then up to the performer to report to his organization about his condition, should he choose to.

He actually said that they DO have doctors, but they should specifically have neurologists.

[Marty]

To prove how concussions are more ingrained in the macho mindset and not just a wrestling centric issue, Jon Kitna of the Detroit Lions had a concussion that knocked him out of last week's game, only to return in the 4th quarter to seal the win. Not only was he allowed to return to a game the same day he had a concussion, he was taking all sort of Foley-esque hits in the process that surely wasn't good for a recently mushed brain.

Funny that you mention the macho mindset, as Chris Nowinski was on TSN's Off The Record, and defended the WWE's response that they had no knowledge of Benoit having concussions. Nowinski's response was that the WWE, much like other sports organizations, don't have actual doctors on hand for that type of analysis, and instead just have emergency doctors who'll send you to a hospital ASAP whenever necessary, which is where you may receive the prognosis of a concussion. It's then up to the performer to report to his organization about his condition, should he choose to.

He actually said that they DO have doctors, but they should specifically have neurologists.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant.

 

It might be something that'll come up at Congress to, and be part of any regulation on wrestling, that is a neurologist at WWE events.

 

My main issue with that is we need more doctors in hospitals, not at wrestling events. Especially with greater health issues surrounding the baby boom generation.

 

But, it makes me wonder: If they threw that in, and WWE is unable to comply, for whatever reason, what will happen? Heavy fines? Wrestling being outlawed?

[Loss]

Something I don't understand about doctors -- if HHH goes to the hospital for a quad tear, why aren't they doing a drug test in the hospital? Most of the time, anyone injured on the job is given a drug test automatically. Is it something that requires consent of the patient, or something that they're able to circumvent legally because of the independent contractor status? Is that more something companies normally do to protect themselves, while WWE for obvious reasons would not request it when an injury occurred?

[S.L.L.]

Something I don't understand about doctors -- if HHH goes to the hospital for a quad tear, why aren't they doing a drug test in the hospital? Most of the time, anyone injured on the job is given a drug test automatically. Is it something that requires consent of the patient, or something that they're able to circumvent legally because of the independent contractor status? Is that more something companies normally do to protect themselves, while WWE for obvious reasons would not request it when an injury occurred?

Yeah, one thing that's been crossing my mind during all of this is what this all means to/for/about Dr. James Andrews. I'm not part of the medical profession myself, though I have a lot of relatives - my own father included - and family friends who are doctors, and I can't really answer your question, but a guy like Andrews would have to have seen all the injuries to all the guys he was treating and put two and two together. The Hippocratic Oath says you must do no harm to your patients, not just directly, but indirectly as well. If he knew something was amiss - and surely, he must have - he would've been required to say/do something. I mean, he couldn't stand by Triple H all day slapping syringes out of his hand, but he couldn't just stand by silently, either. Not legally, anyway.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Something I don't understand about doctors -- if HHH goes to the hospital for a quad tear, why aren't they doing a drug test in the hospital? Most of the time, anyone injured on the job is given a drug test automatically. Is it something that requires consent of the patient, or something that they're able to circumvent legally because of the independent contractor status? Is that more something companies normally do to protect themselves, while WWE for obvious reasons would not request it when an injury occurred?

Yeah, a drug test upon suffering an injury at work is something that'd be the policy of the company. I've worked for a number of different corporations in the Nursing Home field, and it's definitely the company's call.

[Bix]

Excellent article from MacLeans about the concussion issue in general, with a lot about Benoit.

 

New stuff of note:

 

A few days after Chris Benoit's death, the WWE held a televised tribute to its fallen star. But a week after the Sports Legacy Institute released its results, the WWE received a letter from a Benoit family lawyer advising the company not to discard any health records, as they may be evidence in a possible lawsuit. With that, the days of venerating Benoit's memory came to an abrupt halt.

 

Jerry McDevitt is the outside counsel for the WWE and says the company has asked for the science behind Omalu's tests to be turned over so it can be reviewed by others in the field. Until that happens "we're not going to dignify the crap they're peddling," he says. McDevitt refused to comment on reports that Benoit suffered head injuries in the ring, and declined to discuss any plans the WWE might have to mitigate the risk of such injuries in the future. And any suggestion that the WWE might bear some responsibility for what happened to the Benoit family gets McDevitt steamed. "The entire notion that the WWE could be sued because Chris Benoit garrotted his wife and killed his son is absurd in the extreme, legally and factually, whether he had concussions or whether he didn't," he says. "People get concussions every day in sports, and nobody goes out and kills their wife and child. It's no excuse for murder. Give me a break. Everybody knows it's not a side effect of concussions that you commit murder, for Christ's sake."

 

The problem with that, of course, is that mental incapacity is in fact a defence for murder.

It would be several days before he would begin to piece together the clues to what happened. First there were his son's journal entries -- open letters to his dead friend Eddie Guerrero, a fellow wrestler who died in his sleep in a Minnesota hotel in 2005. The entries paint the picture of a man slowly losing his grip on reality, Benoit says. Chris had never been particularly religious, but the diary entries quote Scripture, and describe disturbing dreams in which he imagined people were after him, trying to steal his Bible. At times he seems to be pleading with his dead friend for help to sort out the images racing through his mind. "If I could have read these things when he was alive, it would have been clear. Here was a guy who needed help," he says.

[kjh]

Gees, WWE should start gagging Jerry McDevitt, because every time he opens his mouth now he makes the company look more and more like sleazebags. I suppose the only scientists that don't peddle crap are the ones who believe testosterone is not an anabolic steroid.

[Al]

I agree with McDevitt on the general point. Beyond that though, it amazes me that a publicly traded corporation like WWE can be so bad at public relations.

[Bix]

Saying it's the only reason would be foolish. Saying it couldn't have been a contributing cause would also be foolish.

 

On the lawsuit side, it's far from outlandish. WWE has enough anecdotal experience that they should have been more pro-active.

[S.L.L.]

On the lawsuit side, it's far from outlandish. WWE has enough anecdotal experience that they should have been more pro-active.

Well, keep in mind that one of the big lessons of wrestling's history that no one ever learns is that people in and around the biz tend to think they're bulletproof until they got shot...and sometimes not even then. All the anecdotal experience in the world won't do a thing once you've tricked yourself into thinking it doesn't apply to you.

[Bix]

On the lawsuit side, it's far from outlandish. WWE has enough anecdotal experience that they should have been more pro-active.

Well, keep in mind that one of the big lessons of wrestling's history that no one ever learns is that people in and around the biz tend to think they're bulletproof until they got shot...and sometimes not even then. All the anecdotal experience in the world won't do a thing once you've tricked yourself into thinking it doesn't apply to you.

Well, yes, but this won't fly in a real world lawsuit (and I know you're not saying it would).

[S.L.L.]

You know, a thought crosses my mind. I don't know if it means anything, and I'm not exactly a legal expert, but I'm throwing this out to the floor in case anyone knows or thinks anything of it.

 

Basically, WWE (and really, professional wrestling as a whole) is an organization that hires almost exclusively from the mentally ill, and not only allows but encourages - directly or otherwise - them to do things that will drastically worsen their conditions. I don't know much about mental health legislation, but the fact that a man (who is himself, clearly mentally ill) is exploiting other mentally ill people in an astoundingly reckless fashion, seems like it must be violating some kind of mental health law. I mean, it really is tantamount to an organized beer-drinking contest specifically hiring alcoholics to compete.

 

I don't know if any of that meant anything, but looking at this from the standpoint that there's a traveling freak show owned and operated by people in need of serious medical help, freely worsening their conditions under the encouragement of management, with no government oversight whatsoever....something here doesn't take.

[Bix]

Or, to put it bluntly, it's a business based on self-injury.

[Cox]

When you look at it like that, really, the Kronus thing may have only been the tip of the iceberg.

[S.L.L.]

Or, to put it bluntly, it's a business based on self-injury.

Well, yes. But my thought was more that it's a business based on the exploitation of the mentally ill and the deliberate exacerbating of their conditions. So someone like Benoit, who likely had some sort of antisocial personality disorder beforehand is encouraged to worsen this condition until it reaches critical mass and he offs his family. Someone like Jake Roberts, who had an incredibly traumatic childhood, is encouraged to drug himself into oblivion. WWE Divas likely come into wrestling with self-esteem issues or body dysmorphic disorders and are exploited for the sexual gratification of the audience while worsening their conditions. And of course, a massive narcissist like Vince McMahon (who also came from a broken home), convinces himself that he can do anything without fear of long-term consequences, and with no one around to tell him otherwise and get him psychiatric help, he allows his condition to worsen. Stuff like that. It's not just self-injury. It's a factory that takes the mentally unstable and makes them even worse, then tours with them around the world without the slightest concern from anyone that something could go horribly, horribly wrong. The more I think about it, the more it surprises me that it took this long for something like the Benoit murders to happen. There was Snuka, but there's a pretty big gap in time between those events. This whole time, they've really been training an army of high-grade psychos, and I'm a little surprised it hasn't exploded on a greater level than it has yet. This is serious Batman villain type stuff.

[Bix]

When you look at it like that, really, the Kronus thing may have only been the tip of the iceberg.

Could you imagine the shit storm if that had been outed in the mainstream media during its brief coverage of Kronus's death? "WRESTLING DEATH FACTORY EXPLOITS MENTALLY RETARDED MAN, HIDES HIS CONDITION."

 

Plus, if that was able to be kept secret, only known by those in the business until Meltzer published the obituary/biography, what the hell else is being hidden (of a similar nature or otherwise)? Is there an Elvis-esque superstar who insiders think may have been mentally retarded and guided by managers?

[S.L.L.]

When you look at it like that, really, the Kronus thing may have only been the tip of the iceberg.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if that had been outed in the mainstream media during its brief coverage of Kronus's death? "WRESTLING DEATH FACTORY EXPLOITS MENTALLY RETARDED MAN, HIDES HIS CONDITION."

 

Wouldn't it be great if John Kronus ended up being the great martyr for wrestling reform?

[Jingus]

But my thought was more that it's a business based on the exploitation of the mentally ill and the deliberate exacerbating of their conditions.

That sort of thing is fine for an abstract discussion, but near impossible to prove in court. No judge is going to take seriously a plaintiff who says "well, ALL wrestlers are crazy by default, and Vince knew that and preyed upon it, so he should be punished even though he's crazy too".

 

This whole time, they've really been training an army of high-grade psychos, and I'm a little surprised it hasn't exploded on a greater level than it has yet. This is serious Batman villain type stuff.

Dude, seriously, slow down. The WWE is a scummy company, but it's pretty much the same kind of stuff that goes on in all kinds of other performance-based media careers, from rock stars to supermodels. All kinds of employers unofficially influence their workers to do stuff which is harmful to them in the long term. Don't act like Vince is sitting in his secret fortress inside a volcano and petting a white cat while cackling about how the world soon will be his, all his, mwa ha haaa. He's just a guy who enjoys money and power, and doesn't mind exploiting other people in order to get it.

 

I don't get the WON, what's the story with Kronus you're referencing?

[sek69]

Basically, John Kronus was legit mentally handicapped. He was receiving what I would assume was social security disability for it which was his main source of income when his career was winding down.

 

What's funny is the way Meltzer described it, he was like some kind of savant, a wrestling equivalent of the dude from the movie Shine.

 

An interesting point is that if Kronus was getting government benefits, that would also mean he had health insurance, as anyone on disability also receives Medicare.

[kjh]

Dude, seriously, slow down. The WWE is a scummy company, but it's pretty much the same kind of stuff that goes on in all kinds of other performance-based media careers, from rock stars to supermodels.

Some of the mental health problems are unique to the wrestling business though. I remember listening to an interview by Alex Shane after the Benoit murders happened where he said that most wrestlers would be diagnosed as suffering from mania and mild schizophrenia by a psychologist, because they walk a fine line between being the person they really are and being their wrestling character, as they are taught to play their character outside the arena whenever they are in front of fans.

[Guest *FH*]

I agree with Jingus for once. Bix and SLL need to calm down with the hyperbole. Yes, you pretty much have to have mental issues to become a wrestler. But I've never met a well-adjusted person in my life. It's a pretty big leap to say "well, you have to be kinda kooky to do this for a living" to "we might want to have mental health legislation because crazy Vince is breeding an army of psychopaths."

 

I work for a video game company. The majority of the people here, especially programmers, are out of shape, emotionally stunted manchildren who decorate their cubicles with all manner of action figures and fantasy/roleplaying bric-a-brek. One guy here was busy laying out something like 60 action figures on his 3rd day of employment...another guy has decorated the top of his cube with 2 high-end model lightsabers, a Master Chief helmet, and a painstakingly detailed model of the Nautilus sub, as examples. Should we say the software development industry is preying on the mentally disabled, and maybe have a lawsuit?

[Bix]

Oh, I'm not saying even that it's something that should happen, just that it's an interesting way to look at wrestling. Especially after Kronus's postmortem outing, which could've been gigantic if someone outed it in the mainstream media at the right time.

[S.L.L.]

Oh, I'm not saying even that it's something that should happen, just that it's an interesting way to look at wrestling. Especially after Kronus's postmortem outing, which could've been gigantic if someone outed it in the mainstream media at the right time.

Yeah, that, and also, slight difference between company that hires emotionally stunted manchildren and encourages their nerdom and company that hires emotionally stunted manchildren and encourages them to do drugs while living in a split personality and completely divorcing them from reality. I don't know if it means anything legally, but it's an interesting angle on all this.