WWE's coming fall

[Ditch]

IIRC there was more than one person who got fined repeatedly. Wasn't London one of them?

[Bix]

Kendrick was for sure.

[Loss]

I agree that Punk will probably overall be where Jericho is in the grand scheme of things -- a big player that fans like who is reliable and in a near-top spot, but rarely -- if ever -- the centerpiece for any length of time. There's nothing wrong with that as a career, and if you notice, Jericho really cemented himself as a top guy just because he had been near the top so long and repeatedly mentioned the few big wins he got in every promo for nearly 10 years. No reason Punk can't do the same.

[Guest djhaigh]

I agree that Punk and Miz should be elevated but whose the babyface ace after Cena?

Yeah, they're kind of screwed on babyfaces, but at one point guys like MVP and Kingston would have done fine before they were buried for whatever reason.

Kofi Kingston could be / could have been the next Cena?

[Loss]

There's a difference between being "the next Cena" and a perfectly acceptable top-level babyface. No reason to morph that point.

[MJH]

And for the first few weeks of his feud with Orton everything was going really well. The MSG angle in particular could've been the key part in a star-making turn but they quickly lost steam in the writing and then Orton threw a fit and now he's back where he was before.

[goc]

You know, I wouldn't be that suprised if Kofi is on the list of next year's post WM cull. I remember when Kofi debuted there was some talk about how over he was with the crowds without a real push, but there were a few people backstage who didn't like him. Well it seems like they were going to run with him for a while there when he first started the feud with Orton, but I guess those few people managed to get their way and cut him off. I don't think they are ever going to attempt to move him up again, and he'll probably spend the next year treading water putting over whatever heel they are trying to build at the moment.

[Jingus]

Speaking of missed-boat babyfaces, does Evan Bourne even work here anymore? Dude could've been a young white Mysterio, but they never had an ounce of confidence in him.

 

As for Kofi and MVP, well, this is a company which waited until 2006 to crown their first and only black world champion. (For purposes of this discussion, Rock doesn't count as black, and ECW doesn't count as a world title.) The one thing that nearly every black wrestler in the WWE has in common is that they're never pushed as a top guy. It's a cliche to cry RAYCISM~! on these things, but, damn, one black champion ever?

 

Personally I couldnt help but think of WCW when I read the book:

Those stages do correspond in an uncanny way to WCW's declining years. Stage 1 is 1997, 2 is 1998, and so on to the last stage being 2001.

[Ditch]

I don't think Rock should be dismissed at all On the other hand, they could have easily pushed Booker faster than they did. Who SHOULD they have given the title to other than those two before 2006? Maybe it's more a matter of not giving many big chances or something, but they've had three Hispanic world champs, and Pedro was decades ago and isn't generally considered an amazing talent. Post-2006 is, to me, the clearest misuse of talent, between Kofi and Sheldon and MVP.

[Jingus]

I don't think Rock should be dismissed at all

Why? He's half pureblood Samoan, for one thing. And his dad clearly has some white heritage in him. If his genetics are less than half African, why should he be considered "black"? Admittedly this is a social pet peeve of mine, and I don't understand why a hypothetical person with one black grandparent and three white grandparents is still usually marked down as an African American, as if their family had just gotten off the boat from Kenya last week. It basically boils down to subconcious mindsets holding over from the slavery days, where the "one drop" principle held effect: that is, "one drop of African blood = you're black, and we can legally own you".

 

But more to the point Rock just never looked black to me, he's a fuzzy sort of multicultural melting pot which could come from anywhere. His exotic heritage could be Sicilian, or Israeli, or hell even Native American. It's not a case like with Booker or Ron Simmons where you look at the guy and instantly go "he's black" without even questioning it. So, Rock is an easier sell to the redneck demographic which traditionally dominates wrestling audiences.

 

Who SHOULD they have given the title to other than those two before 2006? Maybe it's more a matter of not giving many big chances or something

I think you answered your own question. Who knows what black guys might have drawn well in the top spot? Historically, none of them were ever given the opportunity to get near that level. The closest thing to an exception I can think of was JYD as the top babyface on a lot of the B-crew or C-crew house shows back in the mid-80s. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: if a company has no minorities in positions of importance, then few minorities will want to even try having a career in such an organization.

[Loss]

Ah, Booker T. Talk about a guy that was a huge missed opportunity. He had success at a certain level, yes, but he's a guy who at one point had superstar potential. I think had he gotten the Jesus push in 1998 in WCW as a very serious, no-nonsense type babyface who occasionally teamed with Goldberg, he would have been a huge star. Booker has always been so good at comedy, so he has usually ended up with a more over-the-top gimmick, but he's a guy who really should have been a much bigger star than he ever was.

 

WCW had the right idea by pushing him as a well-dressed athlete who was focused on winning matches, they just never programmed him with main eventers until the company was sinking. WWE of course made him a buffoon, which worked at times, and really sold his potential short at other times.

[S.L.L.]

Before they turned it into a four-way with a white guy and a multi-ethnic guy, I remember being really excited about No Mercy '06 just because it was going to be - best as I can recall - the first all-black PPV main event in WWF/E history. I mean, they had a good, non-race related reason for changing that, but still....

[Ditch]

If the discussion is racist, by the standards of a racist Rock is black and would thus not be deserving of any sort of special attention. Which he certainly got from day 1 in WWE. Heh, that does prove a point somewhat, because no full-blooded African-American ever got a tenth that sustained push.

[sek69]

Rock got special attention because he was the first third-generation guy in the WWF/E. Vince is a mark for multi generational families, as we see to this very day with FCW being 90% sons of 80s guys.

[artDDP]

It would have been kind of hard to keep Rock down, too. The guy didn't need the championship and wasn't even involved in the central storyline for most of 2000 and was the most ridiculously over guy on the roster.

[tomk]

Rock got special attention because he was the first third-generation guy in the WWF/E. Vince is a mark for multi generational families, as we see to this very day with FCW being 90% sons of 80s guys.

 

I think that has less to do with Vince being mark for multigenerational families, and more to do with the shrinking pool of potential workers with size who they feel are worth investing in.

[kjh]

To add to tomk's point, most children of former wrestling stars don't have great athletic credentials that would allow them to jump to MMA once WWE have gotten them over. That mentality is starting to change now that they realize that the cupboard is so bare without recruiting legitimate athletes, but Angle, Brock and Lashley bailing on the company had a lot to do with FCW becoming a haven for the children of ex wrestlers.

[Bob Morris]

I think Vince's high interest in pushing Rock as a top star from the day he first signed with WWF had more to do with the fact that he had this big smile that made Vince immediately think of him as a guy who would be dripping with charisma and could thus truly be the next Hogan. Rock didn't become the next Hogan, but he did end up being the guy dripping with charisma, just in a different way that Vince envisioned him.

 

Plus, at the time, Rock was a wrestler who had a big build but could also do plenty of high-flying moves, the latter which he had to stop doing after a knee injury. He just seemed to have all the things Vince looked for in a wrestler.