yesdanielbryan Posted November 19 Report Share Posted November 19 Considering that is full time career is ended, how would you judge Bryan Danielson's historical importance? If he never existed how pro wrestling history would have been different? Without Kind of Indies Tournament in 2001, would have ROH ever existed? And without ROH, would have AEW ever existed? What is his role in that? I'm not asking you about his quality, but about historical importance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Hmmm...just some brief spitfire ideas here. -King of the Indies 2001 leads to ROH in the same way that ECW's demise and JAPW's roster leads to ROH. It's a trifecta thing. RF needed a new cash cow with ECW gone, Gabe still wanted to be in, and they saw in Bryan (and others) what was a direct opposite to the majority of the industry at that time. He wasn't a deathmatch guy like you'd find in CZW or XPW, he wasn't cut out to be a Monday night player, and he had credibility with the who's who of available talent. -ROH changes how matches operate throughout the entire western scene, for better and worse. Bryan was a key player early on but wasn't clicking like Gabe probably wanted him to, so I can't say Bryan offered an insane amount of influence here. The lion's share has to be with LowKi, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, and CM Punk. Bryan has an all-time run from late 2005 to 2008, with just so many amazing matches in that timeframe, but he's not THE REASON to watch. Instrumental in cementing ROH as an alternative and elevating its credibility, but it took him a little while to make it work for him. -It's the WWE run that makes Bryan matter. As much as I love the matches with Nigel and Joe and KENTA and Morishima, it's the prime time portrayal of a nerd, that "B+ player," that makes him matter. He capitalized on the public fallout between Punk and WWE in a big way, where the shoddy booking actually did elevate him. It's through this that the indies go into overdrive, IMO, and that's how we get AEW today. Is Bryan the most influential talent of his generation? I wouldn't necessarily say so. Is he the overall best when it comes to in-ring performance? Yes. Maybe that's also a tally in his favor, because he was a major figurehead for an industry shift toward talent being able to work high quality matches on a regular basis instead of relying solely on the angles and big moments to carry them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted November 21 Author Report Share Posted November 21 7 hours ago, Laz said: Hmmm...just some brief spitfire ideas here. -King of the Indies 2001 leads to ROH in the same way that ECW's demise and JAPW's roster leads to ROH. It's a trifecta thing. RF needed a new cash cow with ECW gone, Gabe still wanted to be in, and they saw in Bryan (and others) what was a direct opposite to the majority of the industry at that time. He wasn't a deathmatch guy like you'd find in CZW or XPW, he wasn't cut out to be a Monday night player, and he had credibility with the who's who of available talent. -ROH changes how matches operate throughout the entire western scene, for better and worse. Bryan was a key player early on but wasn't clicking like Gabe probably wanted him to, so I can't say Bryan offered an insane amount of influence here. The lion's share has to be with LowKi, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, and CM Punk. Bryan has an all-time run from late 2005 to 2008, with just so many amazing matches in that timeframe, but he's not THE REASON to watch. Instrumental in cementing ROH as an alternative and elevating its credibility, but it took him a little while to make it work for him. -It's the WWE run that makes Bryan matter. As much as I love the matches with Nigel and Joe and KENTA and Morishima, it's the prime time portrayal of a nerd, that "B+ player," that makes him matter. He capitalized on the public fallout between Punk and WWE in a big way, where the shoddy booking actually did elevate him. It's through this that the indies go into overdrive, IMO, and that's how we get AEW today. Is Bryan the most influential talent of his generation? I wouldn't necessarily say so. Is he the overall best when it comes to in-ring performance? Yes. Maybe that's also a tally in his favor, because he was a major figurehead for an industry shift toward talent being able to work high quality matches on a regular basis instead of relying solely on the angles and big moments to carry them. In your opinion, who are the other contenders to be the most influential wrestler of Bryan's generation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnviousStupid Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 I think Bryan's importance on the independent scene is overstated, largely from being a constant over the 2000s and often featured in ROH during its hottest period. Guys like Low Ki, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, AJ Styles came and went, but Bryan stuck around and was a reliable worker with whatever he was given. It's not like you could throw a Roderick Strong or Doug Williams in all the spots that Bryan was given and the matches/feuds/promos would be just as good, but it's worth noting that Bryan was usually not the first choice for promoters in terms of who they'd build around. While it seems insane to think about now, if it weren't for Bockwinkel, Bryan doesn't reach the King of the Indies finals, let alone wins it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 Yeah, I don't think he has a big historical significance in the sense of changing the business. Even his WWE run didn't really lead to changes and if anything, Punk was first in the "indy internet darling that made it" wagon, and he was consistently a bigger draw for the E. If Danielson doesn't become a wrestler the business and the fans lose in terms of artistic value -for lack of a better term- but I don't think anything really changes. This is not a 1 to 1 comparison -I'm certain there's tons of arguments to make better comps than this one- but if Daniel Day Lewis doesn't become an actor, cinema (and certainly Hollywood) doesn't really change much, but they do miss out on some classic and memorable performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted November 21 Report Share Posted November 21 6 hours ago, Jmare007 said: This is not a 1 to 1 comparison -I'm certain there's tons of arguments to make better comps than this one- but if Daniel Day Lewis doesn't become an actor, cinema (and certainly Hollywood) doesn't really change much, but they do miss out on some classic and memorable performances. Ooooooh, good one. 12 hours ago, yesdanielbryan said: In your opinion, who are the other contenders to be the most influential wrestler of Bryan's generation? Punk, Joe, and Styles maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 22 Report Share Posted November 22 Punk and Bryan should be paired together in terms of influence because neither would be anywhere near as big a deal without the other. Punk opened the door for indy guys to be legit WWE main eventers and was a bigger draw overall, but Bryan was the one who proved the concept had staying power. Given the circumstances of Punk's first departure from WWE, the company likely would have written off the indy experiment as a failure had Bryan not gotten over organically to the degree he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesdanielbryan Posted November 22 Author Report Share Posted November 22 19 hours ago, Laz said: Ooooooh, good one. Punk, Joe, and Styles maybe? How would you order Punk, Joe, Bryan and Styles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted November 23 Report Share Posted November 23 On 11/22/2024 at 12:23 PM, yesdanielbryan said: How would you order Punk, Joe, Bryan and Styles? In terms of personal preference? Bryan, Joe, Styles, Punk. In terms of overall importance? Punk, Styles, Bryan, Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Badger Posted December 1 Report Share Posted December 1 I've enjoyed reading this and thinking about it quite a bit. I think it's difficult to judge historical importance this close...like maybe 10 years from now we can have a better idea. But I don't think wrestlers have historical importance within wrestling unless they are absolute revolutionary figures. And I'm not sure Danielson is one. Like most wrestlers, I think he's just part of a revolutionary group of talent that helped change things. I think his lasting legacy might be his technical abilities in a time where it was no longer important over flashy moves & spots...and having the Wrestling Observer Best Technical Wrestler of the Year Award be renamed the Bryan Danielson award might be his lasting legacy. Not even CM Punk has that distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted December 5 Report Share Posted December 5 Interesting question and I think I agree with the majority of comments here: Bryan was an in-ring prodigy but not necessarily someone who was singularly important for putting US indie wrestling on the map in the 21st century. He was just one of the guys involved in its ascension (albeit the best one wrestling-wise). Overall, Punk is a bigger draw and seemingly the bigger name, though it is hard to overstate just how over Bryan was in WWE from late-2013 to early-2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted December 5 Report Share Posted December 5 I'd even argue that in terms of shaping how wrestlers tackled in-ring action, Amazing Red and Low Ki were bigger influences. To keep bubba @Jmare007's cinema comparisons: Joss Whedon's not really the greatest writer ever, but his work on Buffy shaped how characters talked, specially when he made the jump to the MCU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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