Why does Irv Muchnick think Orton attempted suicide?

[sek69]

I just happened to glance at Irv's blog for the first time in a while, despite the fact it seems like he's completely gone off the rails after the Benoit stuff.

 

This entry caught my eye:

 

Randy Orton’s … Motorcycle Accident (Wink, Wink)

August 22nd, 2008

 

Last September this blog ran a controversial report on what I speculated was a suicide attempt by World Wrestling Entertainment’s Randy Orton. By any name, the incident in 2006 illuminated lifestyle and WWE drug-testing issues that were pertinent in the wake of the Chris Benoit rampage of June 2007.

 

Now Orton, married and a new father, is said to have had a motorcycle accident, reinjuring a broken collarbone that has been keeping him out of action.

 

Here’s Dave Meltzer in the August 18 issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter: “I don’t want to insinuate anything on this that I don’t know and it very well could be real, and this is pro wrestling, so it also could be made up although this would be a different direction for WWE to make something like that up. I can’t believe the idea Orton would make it up and tell WWE, because he’s got to know that they would investigate for verification and if he did, it would very likely get him a suspension if not fired, so I don’t buy that as likely. But this happened on 8/10. As of 8/12, there was nothing in any St. Louis media on this, and one would think that kind of an accident to a local celebrity where he’s very lucky to be alive would make media.”

Meltzer goes on to note that his attempt to find a record of the accident from the police of several municipalities and agencies around Orton’s suburban St. Louis home was fruitless.

 

Irv Muchnick

Now while it's no secret that there were some questions about Randy's accident, there seems to be a million other more likely scenarios other than some kind of suicide-by-bike-wreck theory.

 

 

Irv seems to be referring to an incident after Wrestlemania 22 (April 2006) where something "serious" happened at Randy's home in St. Louis and John Laurinaitis investigated and discounted the suicide rumors (which of course Irv writes off as "what WWE wanted to believe"). After the Signature Pharmacy scandal broke, Meltzer was puzzled as to why Orton was the only name mentioned that wasn't suspended, and Irv seems to be trying to make some sort of connection between that and Randy's alleged suicide attempt. He's quick to discount it and instead blame WWE not wanting to thin their main event scene, which is the far more likely reason, so then why even mention the alleged attempts? It's like those political ads that mention A and B and leave it to the viewer to make the association that A happened as a result of B, yet they never directly made that claim.

 

Even if Irv's insinuations are correct, then it probably would be best if the WWE didn't suspend a guy who's psyche was fragile enough to try to kill himself. It's cold and crass to think, but from a business side that would be disastrous. Especially if the media dug up things like them firing Kerry Von Erich before he ended up killing himself while a WWF performer.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

It's really been sad watching Irv lose it over the last year. I used to think he was the best writer about wrestling behind Dave (well technically he's a much better writer than Dave, as are a whole lot of people, but you know what I mean), but now he's become so obsessed with uncovering some new angle on the Benoit murders or the WWE's undeniably shady drug policy that he's embracing strange conspiracy theories. He's like the wrestling equivalent of a Truther. I was looking forward to his Benoit book when I first heard about it (I thought his essay in this book was pretty good), but if it's full of the whacked-out crap he's been rambling about for the last year, which I can't help but think it will be, I'm not so interested.

[Ronnie]

He was a guest on F4W's audio one day last year and went over all this.

 

Apparently WWE had done an internal audit in regards to a rumour that Orton had been taken to hospital following a suicide attempt.

 

Irv said that his source was watertight, and that he was comparing details with another journalist who has credibility, different sources, and the same story. WWE apparently covered it all up.

 

I've a funny feeling that he tied in that Orton was the only one to escape suspension of a group busted en masse for Wellness violations, alleging that it was fear that he would try to kill himself again that caused WWE to let him off.

 

I never heard anything more about it afterwards.

 

Edit: There's an entry on Irv's blog about it here.

 

Orton: Further Notes

 

Brian Stull invited me onto his “Stranglehold” show Tuesday night on KFNS radio in St. Louis to discuss the blog report on Randy Orton’s rumored suicide attempt.

 

Off the air, Stull had spoken with Cowboy Bob Orton, Randy’s father. Bob Orton told Stull the report was false. Bob Orton also said he had spoken with his son, and Randy said he had no idea where this rumor started.

 

I have little doubt that the story is substantially true, though the time frame of my original blog item (http://muchnick.net/babylon/2007/09/18/did-randy-orton-attempt-suicide/) was mistaken. The Randy Orton incident, whatever it was, occurred in the spring of 2006, shortly after he was suspended by World Wrestling Entertainment for “unprofessional conduct,” and a few months before he was suspended a second time, in August of last year, for failing a drug test.

 

I compared notes on this with another journalist, who not only has unimpeachable credentials but also had looked into the same story last year on the basis of a tip from a completely different direction. Independently, we each had the name of the St. Louis area hospital where Orton was said to have been taken (and, no, it’s not some generic name like “St. Louis Hospital”).

 

Likeliest explanation: Randy was depressed and OD’d on something.

 

The Orton camp’s contention that there is neither smoke nor fire here is, sadly, not the case. Indeed, WWE’s vice president of talent relations (now senior vice president) John Laurinaitis was concerned enough about the rumor last year to investigate it himself. Laurinaitis talked to Randy and others, and concluded that there had not been a suicide attempt. I would say that such a finding is hardly dispositive, given the company’s nonexistent reservoir of credibility these days.

 

Like his many fans, I hope Randy Orton will be OK. If he is relying solely or largely on the WWE wellness policy to regulate his drug use and mental hygiene, however, I am not confident on that score.

 

Suicide attempt or not — and I stand by the report that there was one in the spring of 2006 — WWE needs to explain why Randy Orton was not suspended for 60 days upon exposure of his role in the recent Signature Pharmacy dragnet. The explanation that Orton’s August 2006 suspension already covered this wellness policy violation does not wash, since the evidence shows that he continued to receive Signature shipments as late as February 2007.

 

Are these questions impertinent three months after the Chris Benoit horror?

 

Or would a fair-minded observer agree that they are newly urgent?

 

Irvin Muchnick

[S.L.L.]

Suicide by deliberate motorcycle accident? Fuck, if wrestlers had life insurance, and you had just seen "Death of a Salesman", that might almost make sense, maybe. Or not.

[tomk]

When Muchnick first reported Orton as suicidal attempt, Meltzer seemed to imply "Hey this is something worth reading, that I am not at liberty to say myself".

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Suicide by deliberate motorcycle accident?

Irv doesn't say that at all. Sek's just setting up a straw man argument. I got the feeling Dave (and Irv by proxy) were suspicious that Orton wasn't in an accident at all. But that blog entry was written before Orton came back to TV.

 

Irv needs to stick to covering THE CASE OF THE BENOIT WIKIPEDIA HACKER.

[Bix]

I had heard a rumor about Orton overdosing (not necessarily intentionally) when it allegedly happened but when nothing came of it, I figured it was false. Then, over a year later, Irv posted about it and Dave kinda sorta confirmed it.

[kjh]

I got the feeling Dave (and Irv by proxy) were suspicious that Orton wasn't in an accident at all. But that blog entry was written before Orton came back to TV.

Orton coming back to TV really doesn't prove anything either way. Eddie Guerrero overdosed while injured, hid it from both WCW and WWF management, and was back on TV about a month after his overdose. Dave not voicing any more suspicions also really doesn't prove anything either way either, as he may have since been told the real story and may not be at liberty to report it.

 

I agree that the motorcycle accident being a cover story for Orton overdosing again is an extremely unlikely scenario, but something about the story still doesn't seem to add up.

[sek69]

Suicide by deliberate motorcycle accident?

Irv doesn't say that at all. Sek's just setting up a straw man argument. I got the feeling Dave (and Irv by proxy) were suspicious that Orton wasn't in an accident at all. But that blog entry was written before Orton came back to TV.

 

Irv needs to stick to covering THE CASE OF THE BENOIT WIKIPEDIA HACKER.

 

 

I'm not setting up any strawmen. I'm just wondering why Irv would include a *wink* *wink* in the title of a post about Orton's motorcycle accident and also mention his alleged suicide attempt. I was being a little glib, sure, but IMO it seemed like Irv was implying the accident story was a cover for something else.

 

Also I found it kind of odd that Dave mentioned it in like 2 or 3 WONs in a row that it doesn't make sense that a local celebrity can almost die in a bike wreck but the media/police have no mention of it. then seemed to drop it quickly. Did he hit a nerve with someone and get told to STFU? It seems un-Meltzerlike to sniff around a story like that and then drop it.

[tomk]

Meltzer sniffing around a story and then dropping it is not un-Meltzerlike at all.

[sek69]

Meltzer sniffing around a story and then dropping it is not un-Meltzerlike at all.

 

Perhaps I've been reading too many 1991 WONs where he spends the non steroid trial portions ranting on No Shows:Scourge of the Wrestling Industry.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I'm not setting up any strawmen. I'm just wondering why Irv would include a *wink* *wink* in the title of a post about Orton's motorcycle accident and also mention his alleged suicide attempt. I was being a little glib, sure, but IMO it seemed like Irv was implying the accident story was a cover for something else.

Of course he's implying it was a cover for something else. He just doesn't say anywhere that Orton intentionally crashed his bike to try to kill himself.

[sek69]

Then he should stop with the lame *wink* *wink* stuff and say what he's thinking rather than do the whole GEE I WONDER WHAT IS AFOOT WITH YOUNG MASTER RANDY? routine.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

http://muchnick.net/babylon/

 

Irv's still at it. He just WILL NOT SHUT UP about the "Benoit Wikipedia Hacker." I'm starting to feel sorry for this kid. Sure, I don't approve of Wikipedia trolls, and I think his actions were kind of immature and tactless, especially considering the fact that she really DID turn out to be dead. But the guy got questioned by the cops, got raked over the coals by the media a little bit, and it's clear that he just made a dumb joke. Will Irv ever leave him the fuck alone?

[Bix]

The public release of a Stamford police detective’s interrogation of the 19-year-old college student who leaked to Wikipedia on June 25, 2007, that Nancy Benoit was dead, more than half-a-day before the rest of the world knew it, appears to be at hand.

http://www.facepalm.org/

[rovert]

Didnt people post similar rumours when X-Pac missed a WWF/E PPV a couple of years ago?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Didnt people post similar rumours when X-Pac missed a WWF/E PPV a couple of years ago?

It was a TNA PPV. I believe it was the one with the first AJ/Joe/Daniels 3-way. I don't remember people posting any "rumors" so to speak, but there were worries and speculation from fans because nobody could get a hold of Waltman and IIRC he wasn't heard from for several days afterward.

 

Anyway, Irv has posted the BENOIT WIKIPEDIA HACKER FAQ on the WO site:

 

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/7347/

[Bix]

At least he's admitting there's no real reason that he's pursuing all of this crap other than putting the involved police departments in a bad light.

[kjh]

I'm not sure what the point is of publishing the actual video on his blog is. Surely a transcript would suffice?

[sek69]

Well he does make a case on that WO link that's a little less crazy but he seems to be assuming a lot of things not in evidence:

 

1. He wonders why the police didn't press further for any possible WWE connections to the kid, which kind of makes sense if you're investigating a double murder and the person you're interviewing lives in the same town as the HQ of the company that employed the murderer. Especially considering the kid's dad works for the city.

 

2. He seems hung up on the fact that another one of the edits he made was removing a racial slur from Chavo's page. I guess if you're considering the Nancy edit a one in a million coincidence, the odds of him editing another person involved in the story seems quite remote. Still, if this kid was the typical internet wrestling fan it wouldn't be unheard of for him to run to the defense of a Guerrero.

 

3. The fact that he had to threaten a lawsuit to get the police to release the tape that is public record really seems to be the only thing he has a legit point on. He seems to be under the impression Stamford is nothing more than a company town for WWE and Boss Vince makes the rules, but it seems more like the PD not wanting some nut to post the tape on the internet in an attempt to embarrass them.

[rovert]

So when is Irv's book out? It would be worth buying just for Irv trying to make a concessive argument out of all this.

 

 

I don't remember people posting any "rumors" so to speak

Yeah thats what actually meant sorry. Conjecture over solid facts or half facts.

[Bix]

Irv implies that bookstores didn't carry his first book due to controversy or something. It obviously had nothing to do with it being a minor ECW Press release

 

Your humble blogger, who knows where his bread is buttered, is no Amazon basher. Amazon, you look mahvelous! I say this based on the experience of my first book, Wrestling Babylon. Even the most supposedly daring independent bookstores didn’t carry WB. One indie where I live, almost by accident, agreed to host the launch reading, and the event got wide media, attracted an overflow crowd of more than 100 people, and instantly sold out the allotment of 30 copies. Then the store promptly put the reorder stock of Wrestling Babylon on a back shelf and forgot about it again.

For all its flaws of bureaucracy and impersonality, Amazon offers a universe of infinite shelf space, along with a refreshing lack of snooty judgment. I appreciate that and I look forward to another excellent Amazon run with Chris & Nancy.

[kjh]

To add to Bix's point, it's not like Irv was publishing any new material. Wrestling Babylon was just a collection of articles that he had written in the past; all of which had been available for free on the Internet at one point.

[sek69]

It's really sad to see how far Irv has gone off the rails with this book stuff. At this point, he probably has his walls covered with Benoit related photos and newspaper clippings like Mel Gibson's character in Conspiracy Theory.

[Jingus]

It's straight-up lying to claim that bookstores didn't carry Wrestling Babylon. I've seen it on the shelves at Barnes & Noble and Books-a-Million. Hell, I've seen it on display more places than some much more "legitimate" books, like Regal's autobiography. Why would he whine about such a blatant falsehood?