Jim Cornette explains booking

[Bix]

What's the point in even bringing something like this up? Why are we talking about a person not going to another person's funeral? I don't think that's right at all. On top of that, it's just completely pointless, stupid negative gossip.

When the PG 13 shoot came out, and the information was made public, it was covered all over the place, including in the observer. When talking about the rift between Jeff and Jerry, it's notable information to illustrate how bad things have gotten between them.

[Indikator]

What's the point in even bringing something like this up? Why are we talking about a person not going to another person's funeral? I don't think that's right at all. On top of that, it's just completely pointless, stupid negative gossip.

Yes and no. It's not really gossip, as it is a well established fact. But you are right, it is pointless as we don't have the authority to judge.

 

This is a personal matter. One of the most private things that can be. How can we as mere fans lambast or even mock it. Would you do the same with a neighbour or coworker? No, of course not.

[Bob Morris]

I guess this can be the Cornette commentary thread, since he's doing these on a more regular basis on his website.

 

His latest is a tangent on hardcore wrestling.

[kjh]

I mentioned this on Smarkschoice, but I think it bares repeating. His conclusion about pro wrestling returning as it used to be is starry eyed nonsense based on a factually inaccurate portrayal about the roots of professional wrestling. His grasp of Japanese wrestling history is also a bit shaky.

[Loss]

Factually inaccurate portrayal about the roots of wrestling? How so? Yes, I know his grasp of Japanese wrestling history leaves something to be desired, but care to explain the first part?

 

As for "starry eyed nonsense", what do you mean? He certainly is entitled to that viewpoint, is he not?

[Jingus]

I don't think Cornette really believes he can take it back to 1980 again, but it does seem like he wants to. He's willing to put over stuff like ROH when it suits him for being non-sports entertainment, but listening to him talk for any length of time makes it pretty clear that he desperately wishes he could stick the cat back in the bag and go back to the good ol' days of kayfabe.

[Indikator]

The territorial days are gone. Its more likely that the national promotions will implode and it's going to be 20s/30s style without big promoters. It's almost delusional or retarded to think that the territories could come back. The TV landscape in the US has changed drastically, it's way too synchronized. Just think of the top 40 radios, decades ago you had variety, now most outlets try to imitate each other. I'd say the possibilities are higher that a 50s feeder system could reemerge, as in you have 2-3 network shows with smaller promotions using the nationwide known stars. But the territorial days are over.

I guess the next logical step is going to be that the internet will bring easy access to smaller promotions all over the world. I don't know when or how it's going to be, but with ECW/ROH existing through VHS/DVD sales it wouldn't shock me if CHIKARA could build it's foundation on people ordering their shows Netflix style. It might be a little bit like the territorial days, but without regional borders. People will still know that kayfabe is a joke, so Jim doesn't have to worry, he could work himself in that aspect again.

[kjh]

This was Cornette's conclusion:

 

Will pro wrestling as it used to be ever return? Yes it will, only it will be called UFC, and it will happen whenever the two top stars get together on their own and agree to work a two out of three series of "business matches" to make money, just as Frank Gotch and George Hackenschmidt, the two top wrestlers in the world, did in 1908 and started this whole thing.

 

Of course, that series ended in a doublecross.

This is a factually inaccurate portrayal about the roots of pro wrestling, as it is generally accepted that Gotch vs. Hackenschmidt I wasn't the first ever worked wrestling match and even if was, it's laughable to suggest the promoters and seconds weren't in on the fact that the match was a work. Pro wrestling wasn't created by two shooters going into business for themselves realizing that by trading wins and losses they could create a feud that could draw money, but by promoters who manipulated the hype and the results of big matches to con the gamblers that bet on the outcomes of these matches.

 

As for my "starry eyed nonsense" crack, believing that the top two MMA stars would risk working a series of matches when they would be thrown out of UFC and banned from competing if they were discovered, is exactly that, "starry eyed nonsense". It's not going to happen.

[Al]

I don't think the point is that Gotch/Hackenschmidt was a work. Rather, what is to stop say, Bill Goldberg and Steve Austin from agreeing to work a match and promote it as its own event, outside of WWE or TNA?

[Sean Liska]

He said it would happen with UFC, which means two of their top guys would promote an independent show and agree to work it. Definitely hard to see that happening in this day and age with the internet around and someone like Meltzer actually having some mainstream exposure reporting on MMA.

[Jingus]

Vegas takes bets on MMA, right? Wouldn't be too hard to make a shitload of money that way. "We weren't insider trading, we were just betting that our friend was gonna win the fight, and he did!" You'd have to be smarter about it than your average fighter probably is, but considering a lot of them live in or operate out of Vegas, it wouldn't be too difficult to think there are some MMA guys who know how to rig a sports bet. After all, boxing's been fixing fights probably about the same length of time that wrestling has, it is possible to do so and get away with it.

[goodhelmet]

Terry Funk predicted that UFC/MMA would be the next phase of pro wrestling and will kill out the Sports Entertainment as well. He said eventually, that will end up being worked also. Cornette isn't alone in that thinking.

[Cox]

Yeah, well...how many pro wrestlers think the NFL is a work? Wrestlers are the most cynical bastards alive, they think everything either is a work, was a work, or will be a work, sometimes all three at the same time.

[kjh]

Will, I read Terry Funk's book years ago and I thought the prediction was silly then. That Cornette isn't alone in his thinking means little, there's plenty of commonly accepted beliefs in the wrestling business that are pretty silly.

[stunning_grover]

Jim Cornette's comments from jimcornette.com...

 

A CONTRACT WITH THE WRESTLING FANS

Posted December 8, 2009

 

You can call this an open letter. You can call it an early New Years' Resolution, an apology for abandoning my principles, or you can call it, as I am, a contract with the pro wrestling fans.

 

Over the past few years I have attended numerous fanfests and wrestling events, and spoken to hundreds, if not thousands, of true wrestling fans. In the nine months my website, jimcornette.com, has been up and running I have received literally thousands of emails from fans around the world. The overwhelming majority have said the same thing in a variety of ways--they want their pro wrestling back. They are sick of sports entertainment. They are tired of the sport they love being treated as a Saturday Night Live sketch.They are embarassed to admit to their friends or family that they watch wrestling nowadays, or worse yet, they have quit watching altogether. They are confused and frustrated by the way bright young wrestling stars are passed over by the big leagues in favor of bodybuilders, bikini models, and quasi-celebrities, or given silly, kiss-of-death gimmicks guaranteed to fail, bestowed upon them by comedy writers who have never bought one ticket to see a wrestling match. They are disgusted by the same writers who have made the matches a meaningless backdrop for silly soap opera scripted by people who, as Bill Watts used to say, if were ever to be caught in an athlete's locker room would be whistling "Stranger in Paradise". They are fed up with the pervasive nepotism and the arrogance of Vince McMahon thinking he invented and/or owns the entire sport. Most of all, they are confounded by seeking an answer to the biggest question of all, generally phrased as "Why in the flying f*** does Vince Russo have a job?"

 

It's no secret that I feel the same way, that I despise "sports entertainment" and what it has done to our sport, and have long predicted the decline and ultimate demise of our industry because of it, a point that we are closer to in 2010 than ever before.

 

It's also no secret that for the past three years I abandoned my principles, and not only worked for a company that's moved even farther towards "sports entertainment", but went against every bit of my better judgment and coexisted with the man who has done more damage to our business than anyone else in it's history, the man who Bret Hart has said should be "taken out in the parking lot and hanged", the man who Jerry Jarrett has said "writes TV like a man on LSD", Vince Russo.

 

I am ashamed by this. Sure, there were mitigating circumstances, which I will list here, then summarily dismiss and never mention again--I went to work for TNA because it was the company best poised to prevent the WWE from having a monopoly on our industry--When Russo was hired, I tried to resign but was talked out of it because of my loyalty to the Jarrett family for giving me my start, and my friendship with and respect for Dutch Mantell, one of the true great minds in our business--My wishful thinking that sooner than later Dixie Carter would have a moment of clarity and fire the man responsible for more bad gimmicks, rotten television, ruined careers, unsold tickets, illogical booking and irreparable, lost potential than any 5 other bookers in history--My desire to help the great TNA talent roster and fine TV production crew overcome the Russo handicap and succeed in spite of him--and not least the fairly good-sized check I was receiving for one of the lighter schedules I have ever worked.

 

But none of this holds water if I was truly committed to helping produce a good product, to making wrestling better for the fans of today and the wrestlers of tomorrow. None of this matters if I had to embarass myself by being associated with this nonsense. Even if Dixie Carter is inexperienced in wrestling, she is a grown woman and should be able to spot a moron, especially when she's pouring tens of millions of dollars of her father's money down a well that same moron is digging. After 30 years, I am a whole lot closer to the end of my career than the beginning, and while I have nothing left to prove as a performer, I would still rather be remembered after I am gone as someone who helped produce good professional wrestling that was enjoyable for the fans and profitable for the wrestlers and the promotion than be remembered as a former star who produced inane corporate "sports entertainment" that limped along to a bitter end, decimated by the UFC and it's own inability to police itself from people who have no knowledge of or respect for the profession they were allowed into.

 

Even though it's true that I never publicly praised any part of TNA's booking or creative direction, dancing around on interviews, grasping for something positive to say, changing the subject, my very presence in a Vince Russo-booked promotion lent my tacit approval to it. I wasted three years of my life. I worked and sweated over something that ultimately had no chance of success. I abandoned my principles. I took the check. And for that, I hereby apologize to every wrestling fan in the world. I'm sorry. I'm ashamed of myself. Most importantly, I won't do it again. And I ask for forgiveness.

 

As Mama Cornette used to say, "everything happens for a reason". My total inability to force myself to back Vince Russo's vision of wrestling led to my release from TNA, but it also led to my return to Ring of Honor. I was there 3 years ago, and I made a mistake in leaving. ROH has made great strides since that time. It's a promotion that respects not only the sport but it's fans. It's run by good people who care about it's employees and it's product. It has the youngest, most athletic talent roster in the industry. It has the most competitive, serious in-ring product in this country. It has a national TV outlet and a devoted, growing fan base. And if the balance of power in wrestling is to shift, I'd like to make sure I have my thumb on the scale.

 

So I make this agreement, this contract, with all the wrestling fans who want an alternative, who "want their wrestling back." I don't care if you're a young fan who has never seen serious pro wrestling, or an older fan who has gone away because you gave up hope, ROH is new style with old school philosophy. I am committing myself to ROH, putting my reputation and credibility where my mouth is. I am not a "big name" taking a payoff to endorse something I don't believe in. I will not forsake ROH if or when a better offer comes along to reenter the "sports entertainment" cesspool. I truly believe Ring of Honor IS "the wrestling of the future"--and the future is NOW!

 

I make this pledge as my end of the contract--in return, I ask all the fans who want an alternative, who want their wrestling back, to support ROH as well. Watch the TV on HDNet--attend the live events in your area--check out the DVD's--go to their website, ROHwrestling.com--and most importantly, spread the word to your fellow fans, current AND disenfranchised. Just as ROH is bigger and better than it was three years ago, it's not nearly what it will be in 6 months, or a year, or two years, and you can keep track of, even be responsible for, it's progress.

 

ROH is a company that will listen to, not scoff at, it's fans' requests. But it needs your support, because NO promotion can thrive without the fans. Want your wrestling back? We want to give it to you! That's why I make this contract with you. I will not forsake you again. Don't forsake Ring of Honor. If you will give us your support, your attention, your dedication, I pledge to you that we will not let you down.

 

Jim Cornette

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

So if a WWE or TNA worker explodes like Rock/Austin/Hogan and wrestling's popularity takes off again, Cornette would turn down a lucrative offer to return to the "sports entertainment" world? Doubt it. I like Cornette and agree with a lot of what he says, but he can only come out looking silly when he paints himself into a corner like this.

[Ronnie]

^^ That's what he says, yes, in his latest appearance on WO radio.

 

He's very clear that the one thing he wishes to avoid above all else is Vince McMahon having a monopoly. To this end, he will always work for some other firm.

 

On a not-so-serious note he also said that the only way he would ever negotiate with TNA in the future is if Dixie gave him Vince Russo in a shoot-fight first. I believe there was a line too where he said the next time he speaks to Vince Russo, one is going to jail, and the other to hospital. He's really, really not a fan