Loss Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Talk about it when you get it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I used to think that I was simply not 'getting' Lucha and that's why these matches didn't appeal to me. But having seen a fair amount of it now, the minis matches still don't do it. I enjoy things like Mascarita's ability to do an armdrag from seemingly any position and be impressed with his willingness to dive off the top to the floor head first. But these matches just don't do it for me. It probably didn't help that Espectrito got hit with the big plancha from the top and then had to no sell it and roll back in so Espectro could take the cheap shot, and that the ref's hesitation on some of the near falls telegraphed the kick out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted May 16, 2009 Report Share Posted May 16, 2009 I liked how the pacing varied -- it wasn't as fast as I was expecting, though they would once in awhile kick it up a notch. The first fall was a thing of beauty, with the arm hammered and the legs off the ground. Day and and day out, lucha crowds have to be the best, and they really make the difference here. I guess it helps when you have such clear-cut rudos and technicos. But aside from the hot crowd and some cool spots, I was just okay on this one. I certainly enjoyed it, but it's not my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I used to think that I was simply not 'getting' Lucha and that's why these matches didn't appeal to me. But having seen a fair amount of it now, the minis matches still don't do it. I enjoy things like Mascarita's ability to do an armdrag from seemingly any position and be impressed with his willingness to dive off the top to the floor head first. But these matches just don't do it for me. It probably didn't help that Espectrito got hit with the big plancha from the top and then had to no sell it and roll back in so Espectro could take the cheap shot, and that the ref's hesitation on some of the near falls telegraphed the kick out. I'm sort of in the same boat. Obviously, there are many talented Lucas, but it usually lacks something. The minis didn't help change my mind much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Here's my problem with a lot of the lucha I've seen, especially singles with two out of three falls. There's no drama in the first two falls. That's the case here. First fall: Both guys do stuff, one cover and the fall is over. Second fall: Both guys do stuff, one submission attempt and the fall is over. The third fall of this is great with the action and the near falls, but it felt the first two falls were there simply because they wanted a three fall match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Amazed how much I liked this, considering I never got into Lucha and was even less hot on minis. At first, I wished they had wrapped it up in two falls, as I was enjoying it much more as a sprint than an epic, but as the third fall pushed on, the brilliance shone through, and I honestly think if these two were bigger this would be seen as one of the classic matches. The speed and athleticism were immense, I was out of my fucking seat for the spot near the end where Espectrito dived onto his own corner man after the big save. Takes a while to get accustomed to stuff like a powerbomb a minute in followed by a hold...I can't see how anyone wouldn't consider this great though. ****1/2? Oh, and did I mention that some of the bumping was insane? Talk about dying for your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Pro wrestling is based in two out of three falls matches. This is not a lucha thing. I don't really watch much modern stuff, so I have no idea if title matches are still 2/3 falls or not, but I like that. A win is a win, and the first two falls definitely have consequences. This is such a brilliantly put together match. I really think if I was doing a list of the top 100 matches of the 90s, this would fall somewhere in the top 25. I love the way the big spots are built up -- particularly Mascarita Sagrada trying the dive on Espectro at ringside, only for Espectro to catch him and hold him for an Espectrito die, only for Sagrada to come to the rescue and Espectrito to end up diving on Espectro instead. It's similar to the standard 1980s WWF house show Jimmy Hart spot, but it's much better here. A minis match feeling like a main event is such a major accomplishment. Without having seen that AJW tag at Queendom, this was in my mind the match of the month in a loaded month that featured the two WM X matches and some really good Candido/Smothers matches on house shows in SMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Have to agree with Loss here. Without the first two falls the third fall just wouldn't work. From the constant outside interference against Sagrada you get the classic payoff of the dive near the end. The arm drags set up Sagrada's offence really well, and more than anything, the first two falls offer something to build on so when they finally start upping the ante even more and pulling out the bigger moves and dives, it means a lot more. I preferred the first two falls to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I'm still going to disagree with the first two falls. Building up to the big moves is fine and, quite frankly, should be done. But I never got a sense that there was any need to win the first fall for the psychological advantage, nor did I sense any urgency to win the second fall and keep the match alive. It felt more like "Get this stuff in and go to the finish" than a setup for bigger things. The third fall is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 A minis match feeling like a main event is such a major accomplishment. That's what really hit me with this match. It had all the feel of a uh, normal-sized championship match. I'm just getting used to the difference in Lucha championship matches, mask/hair matches, etc. This was totally a championship match just performed by minis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I thought this was pretty fantastic! I'm pretty sure this is my first foray into the Lucha minis, but it's definitely given me motivation to start checking out some more of the highly pimped stuff; from '97 CMLL, for example. Mascarita Sagrada's so awesome, and Espectro taking multiple cheap shots at him as the crowd goes ballistic leading to the big save in the third caida was my favourite part about the whole thing. Both guys bump like loons, too. The Espectrito bump in the third (don't remember what he was going for... I watched this a few days ago and it's slipped my mind) looked nasty as shit. It looked like they botched the intended finish, but it doesn't make a difference at all really, because everything else was great. When this isn't even the best lucha singles match I've watched from a single disc in the space of a week, I know I'm watching a stacked comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floyd Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 This was pretty good stuff. My mini experience is primarily WWF stuff, so I'm used to humor in midget matches. This match quickly became the exception as it was treated as a regular match (and a very good one). Espectrito did some cool high flying moves while Sagrada (who towered over Espectrito by Centimeters) used submissions and midget powermoves. **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 I love the way the big spots are built up -- particularly Mascarita Sagrada trying the dive on Espectro at ringside, only for Espectro to catch him and hold him for an Espectrito die, only for Sagrada to come to the rescue and Espectrito to end up diving on Espectro instead. It's similar to the standard 1980s WWF house show Jimmy Hart spot, but it's much better here. A minis match feeling like a main event is such a major accomplishment. This, this, a THOUSAND times this. That dive spot was positively awesome in every way. I'll admit I have not seen a lot of lucha. There were a few moments I did not like but I really liked it. Especially it having that major match feel. The crowd was really into it. Can someone who watches more lucha explain the guy runs off ropes and runs into opponent with neither guy budging or selling? Is the hittee supposed to be dazed by it? Is that common in lucha? Cause that was weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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