Bryan Alvarez

[Jingus]

INTERNET MARX R ALL VIRGINZ LOL

Dude, that's so 1997.

[Guest jonnymudd]

INTERNET MARX R ALL VIRGINZ LOL

Dude, that's so 1997.

 

yeah, and saying DUDE and SOOO isn't.

 

ok.

 

you clearly think you know best. I'll just stay and prove you wrong. all the time. no probs.

[Jingus]

So far you've proved that you can make unwarranted assumptions about total strangers based on nothing but your ignorance about the specifics of a situation. And that you can rehash all the ancient old snaps that 16-year-olds threw back and forth at each other in the Prodigy days. I'm shaking in my fucking boots from the thought of your next e-beatdown, big man.

[Slasher]

I'd agree that Bix comes off poorly in some of his rants but Dave Meltzer isn't above criticism. Even God gets criticized at times. Such is the way of life. Accept it.

 

And I'm very aware that Mudd is a troll and not really deserving of a response, but there it is.

[Guest jonnymudd]

I'd agree that Bix comes off poorly in some of his rants but Dave Meltzer isn't above criticism. Even God gets criticized at times. Such is the way of life. Accept it.

 

And I'm very aware that Mudd is a troll and not really deserving of a response, but there it is.

ok. im honestly not a troll.

 

i think this response is totally right. dave isnt above it. and he wouldnt expect to be. Bix comes off VERY poorly because he created it based on really nothing. and then acts like an injured animal.

 

And please, can we stop all this harking back stuff. Im aware that some have been online for some time, well done. you're old. im old. good. I live in 2009. i suggest jingus that you catch up. its quite nice here.

[Indikator]

Could it be that there is an influx of F4W guys going on?

 

If so, I think I can finally check out what all the young'ins are talking about

[Guest jonnymudd]

Could it be that there is an influx of F4W guys going on?

 

If so, I think I can finally check out what all the young'ins are talking about

 

been here a year mate. over it in fact. im quite shy.

[Sean Liska]

The news sites all blow and they're not worth spending money on. Everybody has their own bias towards certain groups and people. While Dave may be biased towards certain people and MMA, the other sites are on bed with TNA, ROH or whoever else that is not WWE.

 

 

Dave was absolutely in the tank for ROH when Gabe was booking. Actually it was more Gabe being smart enough to realize most of the ROH fanbase would be WON readers or at least be aware of its existence, and using that to his advantage. It was also the first time I realized that Dave has a tendency to turn a blind eye to things involving his sources. Also him not really getting on Foley for being nearly as blatant about going to TNA for a pure paycheck grab as Kevin Nash. I don't know if Foley's a source per se, but he's definitely a Friend of Dave, and as such his TNA run (including another rehash of the tired commissioner role and a run with the promotion's top belt) has largely escaped the wrath most over the hill wrestlers using a promotion to masturbate with would be getting.

 

In fact, I can't imagine anyone else getting a pass on the "quits a cushy announcer gig in WWE because Vince is a meanie" deal either. In fact, in his rush to justify Foley quitting rather than put up with it had the unintended consequence of making Foley look like a giant pussy who couldn't handle the same stuff guys like JR and Michael Cole deal with all the time.

 

 

Why would Dave rip Foley for quitting his job? It's his life. He fulfilled his contractual obligations and is the one turning down an easy jobs that pays well. I don't know where it would be Dave's position to judge him on that. How can you critique Foley for quitting a cushy job, and then say that going to TNA was a paycheck grab? Especially when he's clearly lost a bunch of weight and is taking big bumps when I can't imagine it's something he needs to do at this point in his life.

 

I don't agree that Dave was overly in the tank for ROH. He loves that style of wrestling. He goes crazy for mediocre Chris Daniels spotfests in TNA. Of course he praised ROH. But he was always realistic about their limitations and faults.

[sek69]

Why would Dave rip Foley for quitting his job? It's his life. He fulfilled his contractual obligations and is the one turning down an easy jobs that pays well. I don't know where it would be Dave's position to judge him on that. How can you critique Foley for quitting a cushy job, and then say that going to TNA was a paycheck grab? Especially when he's clearly lost a bunch of weight and is taking big bumps when I can't imagine it's something he needs to do at this point in his life.

 

I don't agree that Dave was overly in the tank for ROH. He loves that style of wrestling. He goes crazy for mediocre Chris Daniels spotfests in TNA. Of course he praised ROH. But he was always realistic about their limitations and faults.

 

If Foley had quit WWE and gone away, or wrote books, or anything else then that would be it and it's his right to quit, etc. Once he went to TNA was was basically pushed as a main event guy from the start, that's when Dave would have said something had it been anyone else. That's one thing Dave has always been consistent on, no matter if it was Dusty in the late 80s JCP, the Big Four AJ guys still carrying on in the 2000s, or guys like Nash and Angle in TNA. It's always been something that grinds his gears when an old broken down guy gets (or stays) at the top of a promotion when it's clear he really shouldn't be anymore. Especially when one of his go-to TNA criticisms is their over reliance on ex WWE guys at the expense of their homegrown talent.

 

 

As far as ROH goes, yes that is his favorite style, but most of Dave's raves on ROH were sight unseen and almost entirely based on what Gabe was telling him (with the rest being his opinion on guys like Joe and Daniels that he would have seen working in CA). ROH was almost exclusively an east cost fed and I don't think Dave was catching many cross country red-eyes just to watch an indy show. Like I said, it was a brilliant move by Gabe. He knew they shared a fan base and that the type of wrestling was right in Dave's wheelhouse, so he sent him show reviews that were basically press releases that Dave would print in the WON verbatim. Notice how once ROH was on PPV and TV and Dave was actually able to watch shows on a somewhat regular basis, a lot of his enthusiasm has worn off.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

When has Dave ever complained about Angle's being on top of TNA? I know he had serious reservations about them hiring him, as everyone did. But I've never heard him say that they shouldn't be pushing him. Maybe that they shouldn't push him as hard as they have which has made pretty much every one of their homegrown stars look inferior to him. But that he shouldn't be on top? No?

 

Comparing Foley to Dusty and Nash is disingenuous. Dusty got so much heat for the way he was booked in the 80s because he booked HIMSELF that way. Nash gets shit for his behavior in TNA because he shows up, has bad matches (though I did like some of his work late last year), shits all over the young guys he's working with and then conveniently gets injured when he's supposed to put them over. And I don't really have a problem with that, but it is counterproductive. I doubt Foley demanded to be given the title. Foley was one of the top stars during Russo's most successful booking run. Of course he's going to put the belt on him. I haven't seen or heard Meltzer rave about anything Foley has done in TNA because he's been given shit to work with. Perhaps that's somewhat his fault because I think if he had better ideas than what the TNA bookers had come up with, he's one guy who they would listen to. But I'm not going to pin it all on him.

[sek69]

When has Dave ever complained about Angle's being on top of TNA? I know he had serious reservations about them hiring him, as everyone did. But I've never heard him say that they shouldn't be pushing him. Maybe that they shouldn't push him as hard as they have which has made pretty much every one of their homegrown stars look inferior to him. But that he shouldn't be on top? No?

 

Comparing Foley to Dusty and Nash is disingenuous. Dusty got so much heat for the way he was booked in the 80s because he booked HIMSELF that way. Nash gets shit for his behavior in TNA because he shows up, has bad matches (though I did like some of his work late last year), shits all over the young guys he's working with and then conveniently gets injured when he's supposed to put them over. And I don't really have a problem with that, but it is counterproductive. I doubt Foley demanded to be given the title. Foley was one of the top stars during Russo's most successful booking run. Of course he's going to put the belt on him. I haven't seen or heard Meltzer rave about anything Foley has done in TNA because he's been given shit to work with. Perhaps that's somewhat his fault because I think if he had better ideas than what the TNA bookers had come up with, he's one guy who they would listen to. But I'm not going to pin it all on him.

 

I don't know about complain, but he did make comments about how Angle shouldn't be wrestling anywhere with his drug and injury issues when he started with TNA. Also during the times where Impact was the Kurt and Karen Show, he'd make comments on how it wasn't a good idea to spend so much time on them which can be taken a number of ways.

 

Of course when talking about TNA it's easy to bash the usual suspects like Russo and their "avenging their high school traumas" booking style, but a large part of why TNA isn't any better than it is has to be due to the fact that not only are so many of their main eventers ex WWE/WCW guys, they're almost all old and/or broken down. Nash, Sting, Steiner, Angle, Foley. The only guy who isn't a complete wreck is Booker. The rest of them get mentioned in the WON, it's usually with some remark about them not being able to cut it anymore. Foley gets mentioned and it's more "well it's TNA, what can you do".

 

 

Honestly I don't give a shit either way who Dave bashes and doesn't. I just threw it out there as an example that what Bix was talking about with him and Tenay is hardly the only example.

[S.L.L.]

Notice how once ROH was on PPV and TV and Dave was actually able to watch shows on a somewhat regular basis, a lot of his enthusiasm has worn off.

In fairness, this is probably due in no small part to ROH being a shell of it's former self.

[Sean Liska]

When has Dave ever complained about Angle's being on top of TNA? I know he had serious reservations about them hiring him, as everyone did. But I've never heard him say that they shouldn't be pushing him. Maybe that they shouldn't push him as hard as they have which has made pretty much every one of their homegrown stars look inferior to him. But that he shouldn't be on top? No?

 

Comparing Foley to Dusty and Nash is disingenuous. Dusty got so much heat for the way he was booked in the 80s because he booked HIMSELF that way. Nash gets shit for his behavior in TNA because he shows up, has bad matches (though I did like some of his work late last year), shits all over the young guys he's working with and then conveniently gets injured when he's supposed to put them over. And I don't really have a problem with that, but it is counterproductive. I doubt Foley demanded to be given the title. Foley was one of the top stars during Russo's most successful booking run. Of course he's going to put the belt on him. I haven't seen or heard Meltzer rave about anything Foley has done in TNA because he's been given shit to work with. Perhaps that's somewhat his fault because I think if he had better ideas than what the TNA bookers had come up with, he's one guy who they would listen to. But I'm not going to pin it all on him.

 

I don't know about complain, but he did make comments about how Angle shouldn't be wrestling anywhere with his drug and injury issues when he started with TNA. Also during the times where Impact was the Kurt and Karen Show, he'd make comments on how it wasn't a good idea to spend so much time on them which can be taken a number of ways.

 

Of course when talking about TNA it's easy to bash the usual suspects like Russo and their "avenging their high school traumas" booking style, but a large part of why TNA isn't any better than it is has to be due to the fact that not only are so many of their main eventers ex WWE/WCW guys, they're almost all old and/or broken down. Nash, Sting, Steiner, Angle, Foley. The only guy who isn't a complete wreck is Booker. The rest of them get mentioned in the WON, it's usually with some remark about them not being able to cut it anymore. Foley gets mentioned and it's more "well it's TNA, what can you do".

 

 

Honestly I don't give a shit either way who Dave bashes and doesn't. I just threw it out there as an example that what Bix was talking about with him and Tenay is hardly the only example.

 

Dave has said that Foley doesn't look the part anymore and can only wrestle in protected situations in order to be effective. But I don't see anything wrong with Foley being on top and wrestling monthly. He's a huge star, can still cut among the best promos in the industry, and is famous for his ability to help create new stars like he did with Rock, HHH, and Orton. He's amongst the most unselfish guys ever. He's perfect for TNA. They just need to actually use him correctly. Imagine if they built a feud for him as compelling as the ROH program with Joe that never got blown off. They could immediately make a new star with that type of clever booking.

 

I also don't sense that Dave's PPV reviews for ROH were different from his other ones. He loved the action on the Gabe PPVs but said that the production value and star power wasn't there. He's sour now because ROH sucks. When did he print show reviews from Gabe? WON readers were always in attendance at their shows and sent in reviews.

[kjh]

But I don't see anything wrong with Foley being on top and wrestling monthly. He's a huge star, can still cut among the best promos in the industry, and is famous for his ability to help create new stars like he did with Rock, HHH, and Orton. He's amongst the most unselfish guys ever. He's perfect for TNA. They just need to actually use him correctly. Imagine if they built a feud for him as compelling as the ROH program with Joe that never got blown off. They could immediately make a new star with that type of clever booking.

I think sek is too vociferous of his criticism of Foley, but I think he does have a point. In WWE he lobbied to have programs with Orton and Edge where he helped make them as stars. I think we can conclude from how he's being used currently that he's not doing the same in TNA, that he's more interested in rubbing shoulders with the real stars, his old pals like Angle, Jarrett and Sting. He may do some comic relief with the Motor City Machine Guns, but he hasn't any interest in genuinely putting them over in the ring. That's telling, given that he's got much more sway in TNA than he ever had in WWE.

[Sean Liska]

But I don't see anything wrong with Foley being on top and wrestling monthly. He's a huge star, can still cut among the best promos in the industry, and is famous for his ability to help create new stars like he did with Rock, HHH, and Orton. He's amongst the most unselfish guys ever. He's perfect for TNA. They just need to actually use him correctly. Imagine if they built a feud for him as compelling as the ROH program with Joe that never got blown off. They could immediately make a new star with that type of clever booking.

I think sek is too vociferous of his criticism of Foley, but I think he does have a point. In WWE he lobbied to have programs with Orton and Edge where he helped make them as stars. I think we can conclude from how he's being used currently that he's not doing the same in TNA, that he's more interested in rubbing shoulders with the real stars, his old pals like Angle, Jarrett and Sting. He may do some comic relief with the Motor City Machine Guns, but he hasn't any interest in genuinely putting them over in the ring. That's telling, given that he's got much more sway in TNA than he ever had in WWE.

 

Can we say that for sure given the way TNA has been booked over the past few years, though? The company has never shown much interest in creating stars. He has sway, but he doesn't have total creative freedom to where he's dictating PPV lineups. If Jarrett wants him in the King of the Mountain match and in PPV matches with Angle and Sting, we don't know that he has the ability to veto that and demand to work a PPV program with the Machine Guns or AJ Styles.

[jdw]

What your really not getting is that Dave Meltzer doesn't have internet enemies. He's a grown adult male with a life. Something I hope you grow to undersand.

Dave knew me before he even knew there was an internet. I doubt that Dave would even think of me as an "internet enemy". We may disagree on things, and there's little doubt that I've annoyed him over the past decade. But pretty much every conversation we've had over the past four or so years have been very cordial. Our conversations after Misawa dropped dead are still sitting in my inbox, and they would disappoint people who think we hate each other, or that I hate Dave.

 

This is the point that people don't get: you can be critical of something that you respect and/or find informative. Nothing is 100% perfect. It's not only readers that should keep an open mind to criticism, but also authors themselves.

 

John