The New Japan 175

[smkelly]

So with the deadline fast approaching, spent today before my shift trying to play some catch-up.

 

As a general rule, I steer clear of the individual threads discussing each match until I watch them--so as to avoid spoilers.

 

Even though I know the predilection of many of the folks in this fair community, I was rather shocked at the abject Hatred (yeah, capital H) for Tiger Mask/Dynamite from 4/23/81.

 

It was far from a perfect match, and right now it's middle of the road on my ballot, but I still found it entertaining. It probably also should be noted I can count all the Sayama matches I have seen in my life on one hand and have fingers left over.

 

What was your opinion about that match?

I look at this match like Steamboat/Savage from WMIII. From adolescence, I remembered this match being God send, like Savage/Steamboat. But over the years, as I grow older and my likes and interests spread and explored new horizons, the less interested I am in this match, like Savage/Steamboat.

 

TM is overly botch like in this match, and it hinders the progression of the match. Dyno's dramatic and over-exaggerated selling makes me laugh, which isn't a good thing in a non-comedy match.

 

Although I see the significance in this match, and their rivalry, this match is mediocre to the true junior classics.

 

 

I re-watched the Andre/Hansen match for the fourth time. It is firmly sitting at #1.

I hated it when the match ended though, I wanted more. That is a great match, when it leaves you wanting more, like a stripper, but in a good way.

[Resident Evil]

I don't mind the 1981 match at all and may have been the one who nominated it. It was the idiotic 1983 match that wasn't worth a shit.

 

Also, for those who didn't see it at DVDVR... TAX DAY April 15th is the deadline for ballots.

For you, it isn't worth a s***. Don't say the match isn't worth anything.

 

For me and others, it's among the best matches ever. There's a difference. For instance, I hate and could not get through a match you absolutely love. That doesn't mean I say the match isn't worth a s***. I still respect that the match works for people and is of value.

 

This is the kind of match where the majic can't be duplicated and I can rewatch over and over again in pure amazement of what they did.

[smkelly]

FIGHT~!

[Wahoos Leg]

My working ballot through 2 discs.

 

I'd like to say this is pending some rewatches... but I've got 13 discs to go in six weeks.

 

WORKING TOP 10

Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen (9/23/81)

Antonio Inoki vs. Stan Hansen (4/3/80)

Antonio Inoki vs. Stan Hansen (9/11/80)

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid (2/5/80)

Tiger Mask vs. Gran Hamada (11/6/81)

Bob Backlund vs. Stan Hansen (9/30/80)

Antonio Inoki vs. Stan Hansen (2/8/80)

Chavo Guerrero vs. Kengo Kimura (11/3/80)

1981 NJPW Tag League Finals-Antonio Inoki & Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Andre the Giant & Rene Goulet (12/10/81)

2/3 Falls-Tatsumi Fujinami & Kantaro Hoshino vs. Dynamite Kid & Steve Keirn (1/18/80)

 

 

WORKING BOTTOM 5

Tiger Mask & Kengo Kimura vs. Negro Navarro & El Signo (10/30/81)

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Chavo Guerrero (5/9/80)

Gran Hamada vs. Babyface (4/3/80)

Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Steve Keirn (11/6/80) (I know a lot of people loved it but it bored me silly.)

Chavo Guerrero vs. Kengo Kimura (9/30/80)

[Wahoos Leg]

I brought this up on DVDVR but didn't receive much of a response.

 

Maybe we're just catching the highlights, but three years into the New Japan set I'm rather shocked at how well Inoki, Fujinami and Tiger Mask have been protected.

 

Thus far, Fujinami's only been beaten twice--once in the first fall of the set-opening tag match and again in the 1981 MSG Tag League Finals, with Andre pinning him.

 

Inoki has only lost once, to Hansen by countout.

 

Tiger Mask, with the 4/21/83 match against Dynamite still to go, has yet lose a match of any sort. Though he was part of a double countout against El Canek and a double DQ in the tag match with Hoshino against Hamada and Kobayashi.

 

My question is, were these guys really that bulletproof? Or are there matches out there where they did job that just didn't make the cut?

 

Just makes me shake my head when I hear people bitching about how guys are protected in the modern-day scene.

[Resident Evil]

Tiger Mask never lost a match by pinfall in 80s NJPW which I thought was sooo awesome because it fit his wrestling style so well. The guy was a superhero on a different level athletically and creatively so it made sense to never have him lose. DK was the only one ever to get one over on him but even that was a DQ. It's part of what makes 4/21/83 one of the best matches ever because you can just see and feel Dynamite getting closer to actually doing it. It makes everything in the match mean more.

[Wahoos Leg]

Tiger Mask never lost a match by pinfall in 80s NJPW which I thought was sooo awesome because it fit his wrestling style so well. The guy was a superhero on a different level athletically and creatively so it made sense to never have him lose. DK was the only one ever to get one over on him but even that was a DQ. It's part of what makes 4/21/83 one of the best matches ever because you can just see and feel Dynamite getting closer to actually doing it. It makes everything in the match mean more.

See, I just think it makes him come across as a no-selling bastard.

 

He reminds me some of the characters I ran across when I used to do e-wrestling, whose movesets consisted of all this completely illogical flippy offense and actually incorporated the no-selling or "never submitting" or what have you into their characters.

 

I've not watched 4/21/83 but I really disliked the match from 1982 that won the WO match of the year award. My least favorite of their 3 singles encounters in 1981 and 1982 included on the set.

[Phil Schneider]

That 4/23 match is sitting at 175 on my ballot, it stunk and wouldn't have made the set if it wasn't so famous

[Childs]

The bigger answer is that it was common for top guys to be protected in Japan and not at all particular to New Japan. I'm reviewing All-Japan matches right now, and guys like Baba, Jumbo and Hansen hardly ever lost clean. Misawa rarely took a pin in the '90s and it was a big deal when he did. It's not like it was that different in the U.S. Hogan and Flair weren't exactly taking falls left and right in their heydays.

[Wahoos Leg]

The bigger answer is that it was common for top guys to be protected in Japan and not at all particular to New Japan. I'm reviewing All-Japan matches right now, and guys like Baba, Jumbo and Hansen hardly ever lost clean. Misawa rarely took a pin in the '90s and it was a big deal when he did. It's not like it was that different in the U.S. Hogan and Flair weren't exactly taking falls left and right in their heydays.

I get what you're saying but you at least saw Hogan and Flair get punked out in angles. Tiger Mask just comes off as bulletproof.

[S.L.L.]

In angles, sure, but how many of those types of angles happen in Japan?

[kjh]

Just makes me shake my head when I hear people bitching about how guys are protected in the modern-day scene.

Maybe the wrong guys are getting protected? I think John Cena has lost some of his lustre by doing too many jobs since his comeback from the pec tear.

 

It's also worthy noting that plenty of people bitched about how protected Inoki was in the 80s at the time too.