The Thread Killer

Cornette didn't get fired for making that joke. He quit. Cornette admitted that the joke (while not intended to be racist) could be perceived as racist. He was willing to apologize to those who were offended by the joke. His issue (and the reason he quit the NWA) was that Dave Lagana was there when Cornette made the joke, had no problems with it, and never even mentioned it to Cornette. Cornette was clear that if Lagana had said to him that the joke was inappropriate and wanted him to call the match again, or if Lagana had taken the joke out in post-production, Cornette would not have taken any issue with it. But the moment the controversy erupted Dave Lagana was more than happy to try and put all the heat on Cornette. Dave Lagana basically apologized on Cornette's behalf without talking to him first, and even acted indignant and apologetic about the joke, when in point of fact Lagana hadn't had any problem with it before people complained. Cornette quit because he thought Lagana was being a hypocrite. It's possible the NWA might have fired Jim Cornette for that joke, but I am fairly certain (based on the way the NWA reacted to his resignation) that if Jim Cornette would have apologized for making that joke and been willing to publicly accept blame for the situation, at worst they would have just suspended him. The big issue here is that Cornette is either unable or unwilling to understand the difference between intent and perception. I fully believe that Jim Cornette did not make that joke with the intention of saying something racist or offending people. I believe his sole intention in making that joke was to try and promote Trevor Murdoch. But he continues to be indignant about the fact that people were offended, and he doesn't get to decide what does and doesn't offend people.

Ignoring the fact that Jim Cornette on his worst day is about a million times more creative than Vince Russo could ever be on his best day...making the statement that Russo has "a grip on reality" is laughable on it's face. Or maybe you agree with him that Hillary Clinton shouldn't have been President of the United States because she was a woman, and after all...women are meant to be subservient to men because they're designed from the rib of a man? Cornette has some absolutely ridiculous, outdated and in some cases totally ignorant opinions. But to act like Russo isn't just as bad...or even worse...is just letting hatred of Cornette cloud basic common sense.

I got bored and decided to watch some old ECW on the WWE Network. I remembered these posts from @SomethingSavage (who I miss seeing around here, by the way) so just for shits and giggles, I decided to watch the ECW PPV's in "watch along" form with What Happened When. I have been pleasantly surprised so far. I think you guys kind of hit the nail on the head earlier in this thread. It's pretty obvious that Tony has no interest in watching old shit that he has already seen or was directly involved in. It clearly bores him, which leads to nothing but stupid jokes. But it has been really fun listening to Conrad introduce him to ECW, give him some of the background information, and hearing Tony mark out for it like a new fan. His enjoyment of Heat Wave 98 seemed totally sincere, and it was fun re-watching that show (which I had previously seen several times) in this context. I think the whole format of Conrad and Tony watching stuff Tony has never seen before is actually a good fit for this show. I know I am very late to the party on this (I'm almost two years behind) but I am going to continue to do the ECW watch-along episodes. As long as there are no Casio Kid appearances.

That's a good point. It reminds me of that ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on Ric Flair, and the comments Shawn Michaels made about Flair, that upset Flair so much afterwards. Michaels talked about how Flair is so wrapped up in the Ric Flair lifestyle and gimmick so much, that he doesn't even know who Richard Fliehr is anymore. That really stuck with me, and I think in interviews like this one you really see how wrapped up in his gimmick Flair is. I wonder if there even is a Richard Fliehr anymore, and if there is one...he isn't a very confident person. By the way Charles, it is great to see you back here regularly at PWO and posting more regularly. Always great to see your contributions. :)

Yeah, I was really looking forward to the Crockett Cup. I also miss watching Power every Tuesday. This totally sucks. I just hope the NWA doesn’t end up having to close up or something because of the extended layoff. I feel for the guys on the NWA roster too, I doubt they are getting paid right now and it’s not like they were making WWE or AEW money to begin with.

I listened to the interview. Since the podcast came out on Friday, some Pro Wrestling "news" sites have posted recaps or summaries but in true fashion either missed the entire point of the interview, or just highlighted the most sensational soundbytes without getting into detail. I'll post my own recap here, but I'm not going to go point-by-point and I'm going to skip some of the irrelevant stuff. (Mostly about Benoit's wrestling career, and the whole deal with Sullivan putting the WCW World Title on Benoit after he and Nancy were divorced. It's not relevant to the Dark Side of the Ring stuff and no new ground was covered there.) Also, it should be noted that the interview was not exactly linear...they discussed some stuff early and then would get off topic and go back to it later. You couldn't exactly recap this interview in bullet points, because it was all over the place at times. The whole reason behind this interview was that Jim Cornette feels that Kevin Sullivan got a bad rap from the Dark Side of the Ring episode and that after seeing that episode, people are coming away with a false impression of Kevin Sullivan and the nature of his relationship with Nancy and Chris Benoit. Cornette wanted to use his podcast as a platform for Sullivan to set the record straight, or at least present his side of the story. It should be noted that Jim Cornette is a big supporter of the Dark Side of the Ring and the show's two main producers Evan Husney and Jason Eisener. He has helped them with research, he is obviously heavily featured in several of the episodes and he has had them on his podcast several times to discuss and promote the show. Cornette has no problem with the show, he just doesn't like the way Kevin Sullivan came off in the Chris Benoit episode. Cornette says he has voiced his disappointment to Husney and Eisener and gave the impression that they regret how Sullivan is portrayed in that episode. Sullivan discussed how he has always been reluctant to discuss the murders in any detail out of respect for Nancy's parents. Sullivan spoke very fondly of them and says that when he was contacted by Vice about doing the show, he said he wouldn't do it without Nancy's family's approval. The producers told Sullivan that they had Nancy's sister Sandra's approval, but Sullivan said that wasn't good enough for him. Sullivan reached out to Nancy's parents but never heard back from them, so the producers went ahead and shot the episode without him. The impression the show gave was that Sullivan refused to participate but that wasn't the case. Cornette and Sullivan got into detail about how the episode gives a false impression of the whole Sullivan/Nancy/Benoit triangle. Sullivan says that he and Nancy got married in 93 but were together for years before that. However, at the time Sullivan booked the angle with himself and Benoit, he and Nancy had already been separated for six months. This is the first time I had ever heard that, as I had always been under the impression that Sullivan and Nancy were still together when the Benoit angle began. They discussed how Sullivan was quite a bit older than Nancy, and how she had been with him for most of her younger years and they apart, giving the impression that Nancy really wanted to be more independent of him. Sullivan says that the couple owned two properties, a condo in Daytona and a home in the Florida Keys. Sullivan says that at the time of the on-screen Sullivan/Benoit angle, Nancy was living in the condo in Daytona and he was staying in the Keys and they did not have much contact with each other. Sullivan claims that they had tried a couple of times to reconcile but it hadn't worked, and that at the time of the Benoit angle they both already knew they were heading towards a divorce. So basically, according to Sullivan the popular narrative that Sullivan and Nancy were in an abusive relationship and then Nancy left Sullivan for Benoit isn't entirely true. Sullivan says that when he booked the angle with himself and Benoit, Benoit was actually reluctant to get involved because he was married and his wife was pregnant. Sullivan says the possibility of Benoit and Nancy getting involved never crossed his mind because Benoit was so concerned about his pregnant wife. The main bone of contention here is the impression given by the Dark Side of the Ring episode that Sullivan and Nancy were still together at the time of the Bash at the Beach PPV in July 1997 and that the Benoit/Sullivan match that night somehow escalated into some sort of shoot fight which continued backstage. Also, Sullivan takes issue with the story that Nancy had been planning on going home with him after the show but that Benoit got Nancy's sister Sandra to take her away instead. Sullivan claims that he wasn't even living in Daytona at that time, Nancy was. Sullivan claimed he was living in the Florida Keys but had a Hotel Room rented for that night in Daytona and never had any plans to go back to the condo as he wasn't living there...so he doesn't know why Sandra and Benoit would have to rescue her from him. Sullivan and Cornette discussed that this match took place just a few weeks after the infamous Tyson/Holyfield match when Mike Tyson bit Evander Holyfield's ear. Sullivan claims that he and Benoit planned for this match to be violent and put in a spot involving ear biting, but the fight never devolved into a real "shoot." In fact, Sullivan claims that after the match, Benoit came and thanked him for putting him over and for everything he had done for him. Sullivan takes issue with the claim that Benoit ruptured his eardrum during the fight as well. Sullivan pointed out that he went diving in the Florida Keys a few days after the Bash at the Beach PPV, which would have been impossible if he had a ruptured eardrum. Kevin Sullivan went to great lengths in this interview to say that he has no problem with Nancy's sister Sandra, they got along in the past and have even been in contact over the past couple of years. However, he suggested during this interview that either Sandra got "worked" by some of the stuff he and Benoit were doing, or she is not remembering things accurately. For example, Sandra has claimed in the past that she attended the Bash at the Beach 97 with Kevin Sullivan's daughter and was backstage with her, but Sullivan claims his daughter wasn't even at that show. Sullivan pointed out that Nancy was very "old school" and never discussed angles with her sister. Sullivan also claimed that Nancy did not bring Sandra backstage. Sullivan even claimed that Nancy's relationship with Sandra wasn't quite as close at times as Sandra likes to portray now, that the two had problems in the past stemming from Sandra's jealousy of Nancy always being the focus of attention. The big issue obviously is the allegations that Kevin Sullivan was beating Nancy and that Benoit basically "rescued" her from that. They discuss some comments that were made about the Sullivan/Nancy relationship by Dean Malenko's wife, which Sullivan pretty much shoots down claiming he's never even met her. Sullivan confirmed (at Cornette's insistence, Sullivan actually seemed kind of uncomfortable talking about it) that the only time he and Nancy had a major domestic dispute and the police were called, it was Nancy who was actually charged for stabbing him. Sullivan claims this was the end of their relationship for all intents and purposes. Sullivan claims that Nancy ended up going to jail for three days but he bailed her out and that is when he moved to the Keys and she went to Daytona. Sullivan claims that he never gave Nancy a black eye and at the time he is reported to have given it to her, he hadn't seen her in months. Sullivan reiterated that he is not accusing Sandra of lying but that it has been 13 years and maybe she is conflating some memories of different events. Finally, they discussed the whole ridiculous conspiracy theory espoused by hardcore Chris Benoit fans that Kevin Sullivan was somehow involved in this murders. Sullivan says that those claims used to really upset him, because he has kids of his own who have heard those stories. He says that he has even seen some fans tell David Benoit that he was lucky he wasn't at his Dad's house that weekend or he would have been killed too. Sullivan says that those types of claims used to really bother him but now he has learned to just ignore them. Cornette and Sullivan discussed how some insane fans actually bought Sullivan's devil worshipping gimmick and believed he was actually capable of committing those murders. That was the basic gist of the interview. The main points seemed to be that Sullivan didn't refuse to participate in the Dark Side of the Ring out of fear of being confronted on his abusive relationship with Nancy, he was trying to get permission from her parents to speak before they shot the episode. He feels he was unfairly portrayed in the episode and a lot of stories in the show involving him are provably inaccurate. He also seemed to want to reiterate that he wasn't involved in the actual murders, although how anybody with half a brain could think he was, is beyond me. Kevin Sullivan is right up there when it comes to Professional Wrestlers who are famously full of shit when it comes to interviews. Some of the claims he has made over the years about his time booking in WCW have been laughable. Does that mean he's lying in this interview? I don't know. Obviously, I don't believe Kevin Sullivan had anything whatsoever to do with the murders. I also tend to believe that he didn't refuse to participate in the Dark Side of the Ring out of fear, either. It was obvious from listening to this interview that he is extremely uncomfortable discussing this and I get the impression he wants to put it behind him (and so he should.) As far as the nature of his relationship with Nancy? Nobody can say for sure what is true and what isn't. Only Sullivan and Nancy knew that, and she is gone. I note that he was careful not to say that he never hit her...he just said he never gave her a black eye. I am guessing there was physical violence in the relationship and it sounds like it went both ways since she was charged with stabbing him. Sounds like their relationship got pretty toxic and was pretty much over before Chris Benoit ever got involved. The sad thing is that she clearly went from a relationship which was bad into one which ended being even worse.

If only Russo had known that if he wanted to see JBL get knocked out, all he had to do was get Vince McMahon to hire Joey Styles. Think of all the needless trouble that could have been avoided.

I'm sure the pandemic is hurting the Khan family plenty, and even before this there were reports that Tony Khan had decided to put the brakes on any big AEW signings...but saying they "don't have money" is a bit of a stretch. Put it this way...if The Revival's contracts expire during this pandemic (which they might) then you can pretty much bet AEW is going to sign them, pandemic or no pandemic.

Conrad Thompson did a podcast with the producers of the Dark Side of the Ring today. Turns out, they filmed a lot of content for the Brawl for All episode last year, including the interviews with Russo and Cornette...but then their episode order got cut from 10 to 6, so they decided to put a lot of the stuff between Russo and Cornette into the Montreal Screwjob episode, where it had not been originally intended. They really wanted to use a lot of the footage because they thought it was good TV, but didn't know if they'd have the chance to use it otherwise. That makes a lot of sense now, because at the time the Russo/Cornette stuff seemed kind of pointless and shoehorned into the Montreal episode. Turns out it was originally intended for this episode, where it makes a bit more sense.

I listened to the recent episodes of Talk is Jericho with Matt Hardy and then Brodie Lee. Very interesting insight into this whole question. Both guys had the exact same story...Vince offered them huge amounts of money, up until the very last minute their contracts expired, to try and get them to stay. And in both cases, they both knew they weren't going to be used and "creative had nothing for them" but Vince just didn't want anybody signing with AEW after losing Jericho and Moxley. Brodie Lee made it sound like Triple H told him that the WWE's main concern was how it would look if all sorts of people started asking for their releases and going to AEW. I think that's why they refused to even give a guy like Mike Bennett his release when he asked. They have no intention of using a lot of these guys, but they just don't want them going anywhere else.

You know, I never would’ve figured that there would be a way to make a Baron Corbin match even less enjoyable…but here we are.

The important thing is that Mauro couldn’t make it.

I guess maybe it was naïve of me to hope that because of the empty arena they wouldn’t do their normal routine with switching camera angles every 3 seconds.

I couldn't agree with you more. That Mike Mills segment was the kind of thing that shows Cornette at his best and highlighted why I listen to his podcasts to begin with. I couldn't care less what Jim Cornette thinks of Legend's House, for fuck's sake. Conversely, that little history he gave of the Texas wrestling territories on the Drive-Thru last week was very interesting, informative and entertaining, in my opinion. But I'm afraid that type of content is becoming less featured on Cornette's show. After Cornette signed up for the WWE Network. Brian Last posted a poll on Twitter, giving fans a choice of what content they wanted Cornette to review first. There were some decent choices in the poll, but Legend's House actually won the poll. I was actually really surprised at first but I guess this just proves something I have suspected for a while now. Cornette is playing to his Twitter fans more and more now. Cornette's newer fans don't want to hear about classic Pro Wrestling history at all, or hear his match reviews and constructive insight on how the modern product could be improved using lessons from the territory days. These newer fans just want to hear yet another version of the "Dairy Queen video." We all know how Cornette will react to this stuff, there's no surprise there. There has been a noticeable decline in the quality of Cornette's Drive-Thru since he started to grow in popularity and gain new listeners after his infamous review of AEW's Double or Nothing last year. There used to be some really interesting questions about historical stuff or Cornette's time in the territories. Now it's stupid crap like "what would you think of Orange Cassidy as AEW Champion?" or questions about who should be in the WWE Hall of Fame. And a lot of that is on Brian Last. But both he and Cornette obviously know what helped these shows gain in popularity, and they are playing to that crowd...not the old school fans who used to be his fanbase.

I was excited at the prospect of watching Dynamite. Then I saw that the first match featured Jimmy Havoc, with Kenny Omega on commentary. At that point, I became much less excited. And for the record...Kenny Omega may very well be the blandest, least interesting person in all of Professional Wrestling when he has a microphone in front of his face.

Why did you skip WM9? That was the one in Vegas, right? I hear you, though. I was a 15 year old fan at the time of the first Wrestlemania, but had no way to watch it...I had to wait until it came out on video and rent it, although as I remember they did a great job of getting it into Video Stores quickly. I saw 2, 3, 4 and 5 on closed circuit and then since then I've seen every other one on PPV. Even at times my fandom had waned to the point of not watching WWF TV anymore, I still always watched Wrestlemania, for sentimental reasons if nothing else. I sometimes regretted it but I always made sure to catch Wrestlemania, no matter the circumstances. But this year, I dunno. I don't like the empty area stuff at all. I don't blame them for doing it, because they have no choice...but I am not at all excited about it. Then again, I'll probably be stuck in the house and will end up watching it out of boredom and a lack of anything better to do. If nothing else, the watch along threads here at PWO are sometimes as entertaining as the shows themselves.

I don't think that's in character, I think he's just a moron. I've also seen people on Twitter bitching about "willingly giving up their rights." I don't even know how you could argue with somebody that stupid. It's like trying to argue with one of those idiots who think the world is flat, or a 9-11 "truther" or that you shouldn't vaccinate your kids. If somebody is actually that dumb, you can't even use logic to convince them otherwise.

I saw it live. There really wasn't any such thing as "Pay Per View" at the time, and if there was very few people had it. You have to remember, a lot of people didn't even have cable at that time. The majority of people saw the show on "Closed Circuit Television" where you bought tickets to go to a local arena, and they broadcast the show on huge screens with crappy audio. At the time, I didn't mind Wrestlemania 2 all that much. I got kind of caught up in the spectacle and the experience. You have to consider that WWF shows really weren't all that great at that time when it came to the quality of the matches, either. At the time, I remember enjoying the Battle Royal and the Bulldogs match, and not minding the Hogan/Bundy match. But you're not wrong, it does not hold up well at all.

I marked out for that segment I freely admit that. :)

Poor JR. He just couldn’t stop himself from saying “medical facility.”

I love Jake Roberts but I don’t understand his new haircut. Why is only one side of it grey and shaved? On the plus side I’m really glad they didn’t drag this out for weeks before we found out who Jake’s new protégé was.

That explains why there are always Pro Wrestling references on Billions. (Which is an awesome show.)

I'm all for Matt Hardy coming in to AEW and going hog wild with his whole "Broken" gimmick. I just don't want to see him getting stuck working with The Dark Order, because they suck.

He frequently accuses Kenny Omega of having a Japanese schoolgirl fetish, too. (Which hey...where's there's smoke...) You're right though. I used to think that Kenny took too much shit for his mannerisms being effeminate and that some of the criticisms levied at him were borderline homophobic. Then I found out that he starred in an art film entitled: "Sissy Boy Slap Party." And I saw a couple of minutes of it on YouTube. I don't think he is gay, and even if he was I wouldn't care, nor would I support anybody criticizing his lifestyle choices. But after Sissy Boy Slap Party, I can see where the people that are taking shots at him for that are getting their ammunition.

Or you know...revolutionary idea here...people could watch and enjoy BOTH. Radical thought, I know. But it's actually possible, because I do it pretty much every week. I don't even hate Omega, I just think he's wildly overrated. There are fans around who claim that Omega is the best Pro Wrestler in the world right now, and I don't see the evidence of that. Especially since Dynamite debuted. I think he's a talented Pro Wrestler who is capable of being involved in very good and even great matches. His recent Iron Man match with PAC and the Tag Team match at Revolution are both clearly proof of that fact. But I think his promos are shitty, his facials and mannerisms in the ring are comical, and his selling is inconsistent and unconvincing a lot of the time. Kenny Omega is very good, but there are plenty of guys around who are just as good as he is, and better in quite a few cases. Let me have that opinion...without the judgment. I don't know what information you've been getting, but Cornette criticizes WWE and NXT almost as much as he does AEW. There seems to be a misconception that Cornette blindly hates AEW and shits all over everything they do, so he must therefore prefer NXT and WWE. He's even had some wacked out AEW fans on Twitter accuse him of secretly working for WWE, which is laughable. On his podcast he and Brian Last reviewed both Dynamite and NXT every week for a few months, and he gave Dynamite a better review than NXT about half the time. Hell, he reviewed Raw for the past three weeks and he absolutely eviscerated it. He even shit on Seth Rollins, who used to be one of his favorites. (Which I was glad to see, because for my money Seth Rollins and Kenny Omega are cut from very similar cloth.) As recently as this past week, he said that he thought Dynamite was a very good show, the best they've done so far. (Which I totally don't get, but whatever.) He's even gone so far as to say that at least AEW is interesting when WWE is just boring overly scripted garbage. Cornette doesn't hate all "modern" Pro Wrestling, he gushes about Darby Allin all the time and they don't get much more current and modern than him. He always praises The Jurassic Express, he just hates Marko Stunt. Hell, he even gave the Tag Team Title match at Revolution a positive review, even though Omega and The Young Bucks were involved.