anarchistxx

Really mediocre show on the whole, other than the Rhodes/Shield tag which was fantastic with an awesome stretch. The only thing to wake the crowd up all night. The Wyatt Family are horrible, have been since they debuted. Neat idea in theory, but the actual execution is not going too well at all. Bored me to tears, even moreso than R-Truth/Curtis Axel which was equally dull, just no heat whatsoever. Axel is pretty dreadful, can't connect with the crowd on any level. Punk/Ryback was too long, and pretty average, although it certainly wasn't all Ryback's fault. I'll go out on a limb and say Punk hasn't been too good for a while now, unless he's in there with somebody who can take him to a great match. Ryback is actually alright at what he does, but twenty minute PPV matches certainly shouldn't be in his repertoire yet. His character is better than his wrestling. I think he'll be one of those guys the IWC really comes around on in a couple of years, Mark Henry/Chris Masters style. He isn't that good yet but he shows a lot of promise and at least has some charisma. I like him quite a bit. Bryan/Orton was underwhelming like the rest of the card, not helped by the dead crowd. Really not a lot to say about that match, just a competent enough main event that did enough to get by. The ending was alright in principle, but that should have been the ending to a Raw not to a $50 PPV. This whole show could have happened on Raw without anyone batting an eyelid, except for the Rhodes stuff. A show that should never have happened in my opinion, considering they have another one three weeks down the line. They could have used the extra time to built to HITC rather than tossing this show in.

RVD/Del Rio was fairly lackluster I thought. They just sleepwalked through a load of ladder related spots we've all seen a million times, and everything seemed ridiculously sluggish. They seemed to have no chemistry whatsoever, and for a hardcore match built on a long standing feud nobody brought the hate,or emotion, except for Del Rio for the finish which was pretty neat, even though the wrong guy won. Del Rio is so stale right now, especially with the belt. He badly needs a bit of time out to reinvent himself and freshen up, but the office probably thinks they can't lose a 'big name' right now, the roster is thin enough as it is looking at the card. In ten years they have gone from having the most stacked roster in wrestling history to a company that arguably has no real star names working full time at the minute.

I loved it at the time, but then I was a young kid. Being generous, January-April had some fun matches and feuds, and October-December was a decent prelude to the awesome stuff that was to follow in 2000. May-September was fairly awful though.

I think 1999 was the only truly turgid year of the Attitude Era. 1998 had a lot of great angles and a few memorable big matches, and was helped by things still feeling fresh. By 2000 there was solid wrestling all over the card and some interesting new faces. WWF in 1999 was like one of those great comedy shows that had suddenly got hugely popular in the mainstream, but had run out of ideas, so the writers ratchet everything up and throw in a load of gross gags, toilet humor and exaggerate all the characters to the point where they lose the essence of what it was originally. That 1999 was the year in which the popularity of the product peaked says a lot about casual wrestling fans, and how virtually nothing the current incarnation of WWE could produce will ever win them back. The management seem essentially reconciled to that now, and have adjusted the product accordingly to hit different demographics.

Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton Alberto Del Rio © vs. Rob Van Dam CM Punk vs. Ryback The Shield (c's) vs. Cody Rhodes and Goldust Curtis Axel © vs. R-Truth Kofi Kingston vs. Bray Wyatt AJ Lee © vs. Brie Bella Dolph Ziggler vs. Damien Sandow Surely one of the worst looking cards the WWE has ever put together? The only things of remote interest are the main event and the Rhodes/Shield tag. This is going to do an absolutely awful buy rate, surely? Especially since it is just being shown on regular cable in the UK, so they will lose a lot of their international buys. The cynic in me would argue that they are trying to cut the legs off Daniel Bryan, offering shows like this up as 'proof' that he cannot draw at the top of the card. There will almost certainly be another screwy finish, which will alienate more elements of the crowd. The alternative is to make tonight Bryan's final big moment of justification, where he wins clean and keeps the strap, but that would be even more of a disaster: having his huge, star making victory on such a small, underwhelming show would cut his momentum anyway, especially as it won't feel anywhere near as special as Summerslam. Admittedly I haven't watched any of the build up for this show, so the feuds could actually have been put together pretty nicely and built up some anticipation. Anybody out there wants to argue it is a solid card?

My advice would be not to just watch a ton of 5* matches. Not only will you not get a feel for the overall style and vibe, you will also get burned out pretty quickly. My five year hiatus from watching wrestling started when I had about 100 DVDs that were nearly all 'Best Of' comps for promotions, wrestlers, styles etc. By all means dive in with some of the best stuff, but be sure to watch some shorter matches, less known stuff, things that are interesting or curiosities or not acclaimed. That will make you appreciate the best stuff more. Also, if you are watching supposedly 5* matches then you will go in with massive expectations, and most likely be disappointed. Try to watch things without reading too much about them first. More than anything just progress organically. Rather than draw up a list of 'Must See' matches, just jot down a few things you want to see and follow it naturally from there. It is the same with music or reading; you don't really get enjoyment from slogging through a '100 Best Albums Of All Time' list. What is more rewarding is discovering a great album, reading about it and the artist, getting led to other things, similar records, things that influenced it. Then things start to take on a context. Watch certain things chronologically as well, if you want to get invested in some sort of story. 06/09/95 in isolation is just another match, albeit an incredibly good one. But if you watch all the Kawada/Misawa stuff in the years leading up to it, the payoff is all the better, and you get a feel for the story and the emotion. If you're going to start in the 80s I'd suggest going with Jumbo/Kerry, as that has a lot of elements you'd get in a big US title match in the same timeframe.

Two things from Raw: - John Cena is surely going heel and turning on Bryan? Otherwise why would Daniel Bryan be mentioning and thanking him profusely every single show. It would lead nicely into Cena/Undertaker at Wrestlemania and then he could go back face if they wanted. - Curtis Axel is absolutely horrible. So unnatural for a third generation guy, everything he does looks incredibly forced. Luckily Heyman being great has saved the angle slightly. Weird to see them rehash the Tommy Dreamer ECW angle with the kendo stick.

That is true, I tried to book the rest of the show around that match and realised there weren't enough other workers to put together any kind of viable card.

I'm not dogging the show - I said it was very good earlier in the thread. But calling it the greatest WWE PPV of all time is ridiculous hyperbole, and a fairly absurd claim to make only two days after the show when the dust has barely settled. I only missed maybe twenty minutes of the card, so unless those twenty minutes contained an amazing MOTYC (which nobody is arguing) then I am in a reasonable position to assess the show. You can still have a fair opinion on Revolver if your copy doesn't have 'Doctor Robert' on it; you could still make an argument that it wasn't as good as Abbey Road. Maybe if your disc was missing 'Tomorrow Never Knows' or 'Eleanor Rigby' you would be less well placed to make that argument. I suppose you're more of a WWE mark in general, but you do seem particularly well disposed to Alberto del Rio Christian especially. Without wanting to go overboard on the music references, I feel like you arguing for Christian as a top level guy is like me trying to claim Midlake are one of the greatest bands of all time, just because I personally think Van Occupanther is a classic. Not what I said at all. My point was it was a very good show, that wasn't on the level of the truly great all time PPVs. My only comments regarding Del Rio/Christian was that it probably wasn't that good, considering the previous work of both guys. I never said it did suck, but either way I'm sure I wouldn't have enjoyed it and it wouldn't have added anything to the show for me. I was actually more well disposed towards the show having not seen it. Quite the opposite - the historical evidence suggested it was going to be a load of shit, so I didn't bother watching to find out. If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it etc etc. Knowing all that I do I shouldn't think you would understand that though.

Still No Mercy and Wrestlemania 2000 for me, although I haven't played a new wrestling game since at least 2005. I remember thinking Day of Reckoning on the Gamecube was underrated, it was really fun on multiplayer because you could have these endless series of reversals if both of you were good players.

Give the two guys involved and my knowledge of their work, I'm prepared to suspect it wasn't an all time classic. It was only twelve minutes I suppose, so perhaps it worked alright as an action packed sprint. Doesn't scream memorable title match at that length though. I'm guessing it was just a solid midcard bout. If somebody sells it to be otherwise (someone who isn't a mark of either guy) I will check it out.

Off the top of my head: Kurt Angle vs Rey Mysterio Fujinami vs Dynamite Kid Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Furnas/Kroffat Benoit vs Regal Necro Butcher vs Samoa Joe Misawa/Akiyama vs Kawada/Akira Taue Shinjiro Ohtani vs. El Samurai Jaguar Yokota vs. La Galactica Jay & Mark Briscoe vs Jack Evans/Roderick Strong vs Young Bucks TLC Jumbo Tsuruta vs. NWA World Heavyweight Champion Kerry Von Erich Maybe a bit too stacked but I think there is variety in there. Throw in a few intermissions/promos/angles, reduce the junior matches to short sprints.

Presence has 'Achilles Last Stand' and 'Nobody's Fault But Mine' on it, but it doesn't come close to being the best Zeppelin album despite those two flawless tracks. The Summerslam 2002 card is Led Zeppelin III - more consistent, more varied, and a more complete show. Wrestlemania 17 is IV i.e. the best matches/songs in all the different styles the company/band excelled at.

I'll probably try and do a list for this. I've seen quite a bit from the first half of the decade, especially 2003-2006 NOAH, but I'd really have to catch up on the later stuff, except for 2009 where I saw a handful of the top matches.

It was a two match show; nobody will remember ADR/Christian in a few months, let alone a few years. Summerslam 2002 is clearly better, and had great variety with Angle/Mysterio, Edge/Guerrero, Benoit/RVD, Michaels/HHH and Rock/Lesnar all being good to great. The highs this year were better though. As for full PPVs it is way too early to assess, and there was plenty of underwhelming stuff on this card. Wyatt v Kane and the Divas match certainly don't belong on the best PPV of all time. WMX7 beats it hands down for a start. Even in the recent past MITB 2011 gives it a major run for its money - pretty much the show that got me back into wrestling. Punk/Cena was just about on par with the two major matches here, both the ladder matches delivered in a big way, Show/Henry was fun, Orton/Christian was decent, and the undercard didn't have any wastage besides a Divas match that didn't even go five minutes.

I doubt the main event for the next PPV is even set in stone, knowing how WWE Creative operates.

A huge stable of HHH/Orton/Vince/Stephanie with The Shield as muscle could be very entertaining, and is guaranteed to have massive heat. Throw Ryback in there as the bully who hides behind The Shield when the going gets tough and you have some great television, providing it doesn't consist of a twenty minute HHH promo every week. HHH/Orton/Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns vs Daniel Bryan/CM Punk/Dolph Ziggler/Mark Henry/Big Show would be an amazing Survivor Series match.

I actually think Brock Lesnar vs Daniel Bryan would be an interesting Wrestlemania main event. There is nobody else who could give DB a bigger rub, and it is at least a fresh match. They could wrap all the loose ends up with Bryan/HHH/Orton well before that, leaving them to partake in wherever this is leading. Austin/HHH would be an enormous waste of Austin though, they must have wrestled at least ten times on television already. Surely they would rather use Austin to do something fresh with Cena/Punk/Orton? Or if Austin only wants to wrestle an old timer, there is a lot more mileage with him returning to take on The Streak.

Oh, and these 'Ryback is a bully' promos/segments are definitely the sort of thing that need to be on the 2013 yearbook. Endlessly entertaining.

They won two handicap matches, and had a hard time controlling Daniel Bryan between the three of them. I wouldn't make any assumptions yet, they've still gone from destroying The Rock and The Undertaker to not even making the card on the second biggest show of the year, and wandering aimlessly between feuds. I harp on about this, but WWE needs to start giving guys proper personalities and motivations. This just randomly beating people up and setting up a match never goes anywhere, and it always leads to pushes and characters petering out after the the first few months. Have people feud over something, have a proper storyline.

Rob must be wondering why the hell he came back. Hope he is on a decent paycheck. You'd think they'd have some reasonable plan for his return that went beyond the Summerslam pre-show and pairing him with about the most unsuitable guy ever, and a borderline comedy character to boot. On another note, CM Punk cut an absolutely incredible promo on Raw, I'm always still amazed how over he is. The Daniel Bryan/Stephanie segment was fantastic as well, she is actually better than her husband on the mic.

Fuck me, he really doesn't help himself. The 'Randy Orton Title Coronation' consisted of a (interminably boring) twenty minute HHH promo, with Orton himself relegated to a two minute segment on the mic before Daniel Bryan came out and Trips once again took over. The worst thing was that Vince was ridiculously entertaining in his ninety seconds, before Helmsley bored us all to tears. He needs to get those forehead creases sorted out as well, surely he can afford some surgery.

vs RVD in the ECW Arena.

Isn't that typical behavior for the prototypical Kliq Douchebag though? Help your close friends, be generous to the people you love, be loyal to the group - and then manipulate, politic and be a horrible jerk to everyone else.

Watched/skimmed through most of the rest. Kane/Wyatt Family was fairly terrible, just a pointless bore. Rhodes/Sandow was solid if unremarkable, and at least the right man won. I skipped Christian/ADR; I find Del Rio to be dreadful and interminably boring, and the ending was never in doubt. Skipped the Divas match also. The Ryback scene was amazing, best thing on the show up to then by a mile, I couldn’t stop laughing. He is both believable and hilarious as a bully, his character is extremely entertaining at the minute, I really like the direction they are going with it. “Ryback certainly isn’t an ambassador of the WWE Be A Star program,” by Jerry Lawler also cracked me up for some reason. Lesnar/Punk was superb, fast paces, believable and athletic. Crowd was fantastic. Such a contrast to that dull, slovenly Lesnar/HHH match last year with a totally dead audience. Maybe Lesnar’s best ever match, Punk was the perfect foil. Part of me thinks they should have given the crowd what they wanted and had Punk win, especially considering what was coming later. Ironically given Punk’s size this was the one time where I felt Lesnar losing would have been believable. The HHH and Cena wins seemed entirely unrealistic, at least in the context of the way the two matches were worked. The mixed tag was well worked and pretty fun.Bryan/Cena was incredible as I have already mentioned. The PPV as a whole was a very good show, the two marquee matches delivered in a big way which is all you can ask for. Probably the two best matches of the year in WWE. Undercard was either underwhelming or I didn’t care. Can’t believe RVD didn’t even make the card. Why bring a guy back under all that fanfare and then just throw him on the pre-show? The Shield as well, all that push and then they aren’t on the second biggest card of the year. No consistency whatsoever with the booking.