Loss

Someone who happens to be gay where it's not central to the gimmick or the wrestling style, and only occasionally mentioned in angles.

Well, part of it is that whether he does or not, it comes across like Dave has zero respect for the integrity of sports and thinks every decision should be made for financial reasons only.

I just wish there was as much JCP footage as there is WWF footage from that time period.

Sting was in a Laaz Rockit video apparently.

That exists as a handheld.

This one gets me every time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqQvIHyUPHU

I want a ticket to Gregor's show!

I'm actually expecting Jericho to win the title at Elimination Chamber so he can drop it to Punk at Mania. We'll see.

Does the prospect of Lightning Kid facing Wellington Wilkins Jr. in a 20-minute draw in a Minnesota indy in 1990 excite you? Because it should!

That may be the best post I've ever read on this board. Great!

Was the crowd reaction BECAUSE of Hogan's selling, though? Because he had garnered so much sympathy that people were rooting for him? Or were they preconditioned to cheer him no matter what? I'm not saying he was bad. I'm just saying I never saw a case of Hogan's selling turning around a dead crowd or raising the heat in the match from where it already would have been. I bring that up not because I'm trying to find a factually correct viewpoint, and I realize these things are subjective. I'm just raising the question.

One of Hogan's finest moments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvEjjIWMlco

Yes, that match is pretty hard to get through.

What Will described is relevant, since pro wrestling is an American concept copied by Japan anyway.

The idea was supposed to be that Flair should have lost the match, but Charles Robinson was in his pocket and just overlooked it.

Meaning they didn't feel like Flair working his style carrying his opponent like typical Flair/muscle guy matches did.

Actually, SuperBrawl the month before was the big number. Then, they started teasing a Flair heel turn and Hogan face turn, which killed the drawing power both of them had left in WCW, as fans preferred the opposite. They tried Hogan vs Flair many times on PPV after that, but it never drew again. By early 1999, the company was already on a downswing and they still produced that monster buyrate. Flair's promos in the lead-up were outstanding and what we never got to see from him in Hogan feuds before -- talk that real wrestling fans knew the difference between the two, and not to train for a big media appearance, but rather for the fight of his life. He then said while Hogan was the bigger celebrity, Flair was the better wrestler and he would tie him in knots. Hogan vs Flair with similar build during WCW's height might have set a record.

I really do like the '94 trilogy -- Bash at the Beach, Clash and Havoc, with each match being better than the last -- but they are Hogan matches, not Flair matches. I can understand not liking them, because Flair is just really filling a role.

What's interesting is that according to the WONs at the time, Flair didn't want to be a guy who kept coming back after retirements (BIGGEST LOL OF ALL TIME!) and intended for that to be his last match.

Yes. There is a lot of nauseating stuff about the Havoc match, even though it's a terrific match. Flair losing a retirement match and then not even getting a sendoff was pretty bad too.

Yeah, the leg shaking off of bodyslams. And the neverending poses. And that all of his matches as Hollywood Hogan were terrible and overbooked to shit. And that I'm surprised his back is in such bad shape considering he didn't take very many bumps in his career, compared to Flair, who bumped a ton and moves around much better these days. And we've talked about how in the 80s, he acted like a privileged heel instead of a babyface, and how from 1994-1996, he was incredibly nauseating and had the astroturf fan support. What else?

It would have unfortunately fallen apart quickly due to Windham's injuries, but Flair vs The Horsemen was a feud that was planned and never happened in both 1988 and 1989. Flair against a new group of Windham, Arn and the Blonds would have been really fun.

I remember thinking that was outstanding. I love it when heels can say stuff like that, but still come across as heels.

13 years later, Madonna does a tribute to Halftime Heat. And it's every bit as good.

Bret cooled off post-Summerslam because of how he was positioned, and Shawn/Undertaker was the hotter feud. Shawn was also getting people to chant for his death at Bad Blood, and we all know about his night in Europe at One Night Only. So I would say that by that point, Shawn had surpassed Bret in terms of getting a really hate-filled reaction, but I don't think he was hotter than Bret was pre-Summerslam.