Loss

I'd have to put the fact that one of his jobbers died in the 80s and he aired their match on TV that weekend anyway pretty high up there too.

Vince has sent a lot of guys through rehab, and I do agree that there's only so much he can do from his position, but there was never an offer made to send Kerry through rehab, and Vince can probably share more of the burden than anyone for creating nearly impossible standards in physique. That look just can't be achieved legally, and he doesn't push smaller guys typically.

It's pretty similar to the way they released Rhyno after he said he lost his will to live. Now granted, breaking the flowerpot shouldn't have gone unpunished, and he should have been reprimanded, but I don't like the tone to it, because you're left with a company choosing to get rid of someone pre-emptively when they could have just as easily suspended him without pay for 90 days and required him to get psychiatric counseling. It's mind-boggling to me that there's no resident psychiatrist on hand for WWE, considering the schedule and wear and tear the wrestlers go through.

Precisely. They released him soon after because they were afraid he'd die on the company's watch. Wrestling is really classy.

While we're at it, what happened to Los Conquistadores? They had a great comeback in 2000 and defeated the Hardyz for the tag titles, but that biased commissioner Mick Foley ordered a loss EDGE AND CHRISTIAN had to the Hardy Boyz the following night to be a way to give the Hardyz their titles back. Los Conquistadores were obviously so upset by this miscarriage of justice that they completely left wrestling.

Well, they did beat the Gladiators. If they get included, I demand that the New Breed be included as well, if for no other reason than referring to Dusty Rhodes as "Mr. President".

Good WCW/NWA list. Unless there are some big Totally Buff fans in the house, I might replace them with Windham and Garvin.

I strongly disagree with that. Owen and Davey Boy had far better matches as a team than the Bushwhackers or LOD did in the company in the time frame. There were plenty of long-term tag teams that didn't have team names that were still quite good. Not every team I mentioned here was long-term, but they all had memorable runs.

I'd also add the following: Owen & Davey Boy Furnas & LaFon Benoit & Jericho Austin & HHH Undertaker & Kane Ric Flair & Batista Edge & Rey Misterio Jr Los Guerreros Booker T & Goldust Chris Jericho & Christian Shawn Michaels & Diesel Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle Chris Benoit & Edge Undertaker & Kane Mankind & Kane Rob Van Dam & Kane And more I'm sure I can think of later.

From Universal Wrestling: Fantastics v Steve Williams & Jake Roberts (04/14/85, House Shows Vol 29) Fantastics v Midnight Express (06/30/85, House Shows Vol 55) Fantastics v Dirty White Boys (06/30/85, House Shows Vol 58) Fantastics v Eddie Gilbert & Jerry Gray (07/28/85, House Shows Vol 63) Fantastics v Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel (08/09/85, House Shows Vol 67) Fantastics v Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel (09/22/85, House Shows Vol 74) Fantastics v Dick Slater & Buzz Sawyer (10/27/85, House Shows Vol 81) Some of these are probably repeats.

How is the Flair/Tommy Rogers match from Georgia? Have you seen it?

I went through McAdam's page to see if he had any matches Warburton didn't. He only had a few, but he did have some. Fantastics & Steve Simpson v Eric Embry & The RPMs SCAFFOLD MATCH (J1096, Matches From 1983-1988) Fantastics v Rock & Roll Express (04/01/89 - J1116, Matches From 1986-1989) Fantastics v Chris Adams & Gino Hernandez (J1730, WCCW Ft Worth 1985) Fantastics v John Tatum & The Grappler TORNADO MATCH (J1731, WCCW Ft Worth 1985) Fantastics v Al Madril & Brian Adias (J1805, WCCW 1986-1987)

Every Fantastics match Warburton has on his list: Fantastics v John Tatum & Jack Victory (#14 World Class Ft. Worth 2/88) Fantastics & Duggan v Hercules, DiBiase & Doc (#17 Mid South 10/84-11/84) Fantastics v Ivan & Nikita Koloff (#31 UWF 05/86-08/86) Fantastics v Sheepherders (#31 UWF 05/86-08/86) Fantastics v John Tatum & Jack Victory (#31 UWF 05/86-08/86) Fantastics & Missing Link v Gilbert, Tatum & Sting (#31 UWF 05/86-08/86) Fantastics v Eddie Gilbert & Sting (#31 UWF 05/86-06/86) Fantastics v Eddie Gilbert & Sting (#31 UWF 05/86-06/86) Fantastics v Jake Roberts & Kelly Kiniski (#45 WCCW 11/84-12/84) Fantastics v Sheepherders (#46 UWF 04/86-05/86) Fantastics v Bulba & Mendoza (#46 UWF 04/86-05/86) Fantastics & Terry Taylor v Sheepherders & Jack Victory (#46 UWF 04/86-05/86) Fantastics v Sheepherders (#46 UWF 04/86-05/86) Fantastics v Pat Rose & ?? (#65 Mid South 08/85-09/85) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Jerry Gray (#65 Mid South 08/85-09/85) Fantastics v Bob Sweetan & Steve Williams (#65 Mid South 08/85-09/85) Fantastics v Dutch Mantel & Bill Dundee (#65 Mid South 08/85-09/85) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#67 WCCW 04/85-05/85) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#67 WCCW 04/85-05/85) Fantastics v Rip Oliver & Jack Victory (#67 WCCW 04/85-05/85) Fantastics v Kelly Kiniski & Jack Victory (#68 WCCW 06/85-07/85) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#69 WCCW 02/85-03/85) Fantastics v Rip Oliver & Kelly Kiniski (#69 WCCW 02/85/03/85) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#69 WCCW 02/85-03/85) Fantastics v Larry Clark & Jerry Gray (#71 Mid South 09/85-10/85) Fantastics v Steve Williams & Ted DiBiase (#71 Mid South 09/85-10/85) Fantastics v Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel BULLWHIP ON A POLE MATCH (#71 Mid South 09/85-10/85) Fantastics v Buzz Sawyer & Dick Slater (#74 Mid South 10/85-11/85) Fantastics v Dennis Condrey & Krusher Kruschev HAIR v FLAG MATCH (#83 Mid South 08/84-09/84) Fantastics v Crews & Barber (#83 Mid South 08/84-09/84) Fantastics v Buddy Landell & Krusher Kruschev (#83 Mid South 08/84-09/84) Fantastics v Sheepheders (#92 Memphis 11/85-01/86) Fantastics v Tom Pritchard & Pat Rose (#92 Memphis 11/85-01/86) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Invader (#92 Memphis 11/85-01/86) Fantastics v Pat Rose & The Spoiler (#92 Memphis 11/85-01/86) Fantastics v Dutch Mantel & Tony Falk (#92 Memphis 11/85-01/86) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Tony Falk (#92 Memphis 11/85-01/86) Fantastics & Duggan v Midnight Express & Jim Cornette (#95 Wrestling's Best #6) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#105 WCCW 01/86-02/86) Fantastics v Steve Regal & Jack Victory (#107 WCCW Ft Worth) Fantastics v MOD Squad (#108 Memphis 01/86-03/86) Fantastics v Dick Slater & Buzz Sawyer (#109 Mid South 01/86-02/86) Fantastics v Chavo & Hector Guerrero v Midnight Express v Rock & Roll Express (#113 Mid South 03/85) Fantastics v Raider & Brown (#114 Mid South 07/85-08/85) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Tom Pritchard (#114 Mid South 07/85-08/85) Fantastics v Rip Oliver & Kelly Kiniski (#134 WCCW Ft Worth 07/85) Fantastics v Taras Bulba & Gustavo Mendoza (#137 UWF Power Pro/WWA/Florida/Hawaii/WCCW) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#137 UWF Power Pro/WWA/Florida/Hawaii/WCCW) Fantastics v Dutch Mantel & Bill Dundee (#138 Florida/Power Pro/Hawaii 03/86-04/86) Fantastics & Terry Taylor v Sheepheders & Jack Victory BARBED WIRE CAGE MATCH (#187 Wrestling's Best #10) Fantastics v Fabulous Ones (#187 Wrestling's Best #10) Fantastics v Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard #187 Wrestling's Best #10) Fantastics v Sheepherders (#187 Wrestling's Best #10) Fantastics v Midnight Express (#194 Central States 04/85-05/85) Fantastics v John Tatum & Jack Victory (#211 UWF 10/86-11/86) Fantastics v John Tatum & Jack Victory (#211 UWF 10/86-11/86) Fantastics v Crews & Mendoza (#211 UWF 10/86-11/86) Fantastics v Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts (#211 UWF 10/86-11/86) Fantastics v Sting & Rick Steiner (#215 UWF Power Pro 11/86-12/86) Fantastics v Mike George & Crews (#215 UWF Power Pro 11/86-12/86) Fantastics v Jack Victory & Mike George (#215 UWF Power Pro 11/86-12/86) Fantastics v Eddie Gilbert & Sting (#220 UWF 12/86-01/87) Fantastics & Steve Williams v Michael Hayes, Buddy Roberts & Terry Gordy (#220 UWF 12/86-01/87) Fantastics v Eddie Gilbert & Sting (#220 UWF 12/86-01/87) Fantastics & Chavo Guerrero v Jack Victory, Mike George & Crews (#239 UWF Power Pro 01/87-02/87) Fantastics & Terry Taylor v Sheepherders & Jack Victory (#244 Wrestling's Best #18) Fantastics v Chavo & Hector Guerrero (#282 Mid South 01/85-02/85) Fantastics v Iceman Parsons & Buddy Roberts (#292 Puerto Rico 01/88-02/88) Fantastics v Doug Somers & Texas Jack (#320 Florida 08/87-09/87) Fantastics v Apollo & Tony Falk (#329 WCCW 12/87-01/88) Fantastics v John Tatum & Jack Victory (#329 WCCW 12/87-01/88) Fantastics v Atkinson & Gene Ligon (#334 NWA TBS #4 02/88-03/88) Fantastics v Chris Champion & Sean Royal (#338 NWA TBS 07/88-08/88) Fantastics & Solomon Grundy v John Tatum, Jack Victory & Thing (#339 WCCW 02/88-03/88) Fantastics v Art Pritts & Bear Collie (#343 NWA TBS #5 04/88-05/88) Fantastics v Rick Steinborn & Martin (#343 NWA TBS #5 04/88-05/88) Fantastics v Watson & Stevens (#343 NWA TBS #5 04/88-05/88) Fantastics v Aumen & Price (#343 NWA TBS #5 04/88-05/88) Fantastics v Steinborn & Star (#349 NWA TBS #6 06/88-07/88) Fantastics v Grappler & Joe Cruz (#349 NWA TBS 06/88-07/88) Fantastics v Warlord & Ivan Koloff (#353 NWA TBS #7 07/88-08/88) Fantastics v Scott & Price (#353 NWA TBS #7 07/88-08/88) Fantastics v El Diablo & Kelly Kiniski (#360 WCCW 08/84-11/84) Fantastics v El Diablo & Dell Veasy (#360 WCCW 08/84-11/84) Fantastics v PYT Express (#372 WCCW 11/84) Fantastics v Jones & Steele (#380 NWA TBS #9 10/88-12/88) Fantastics v Randy Mulkey & Mike Jackson (#391 NWA TBS #10 12/88-01/89) Fantastics v Original Midnight Express (#391 NWA TBS #10 12/88-01/89) Fantastics v Original Midnight Express (#391 NWA TBS #10 12/88-01/89) Fantastics v Steve Williams & Mike Rotunda (#391 NWA TBS #11 01/89-02/89) Fantastics v Tommy Angel & Riddle (#411 NWA '88) Fantastics & Rock & Roll Express v Rotunda, Steiner, Ivan Koloff & Russian Assassin (#411 NWA '88) Fantastics v Ringlords (#468 Five Star Wrestling 04/90) Fantastics v Wolfe & Nation (#468 Five Star Wrestling 04/90) Fantastics v Steve Pritchard & Mike Jackson (#468 Five Star Wrestling 04/90) Fantastics v Horowitz & Williams (#478 NWA TBS #26 07/90-09/90) Fantastics v Doom (#478 NWA TBS #26 07/90-09/90) Fantastics v Stan Lane & Jim Cornette (#546 TWA/South Atlantic/ICW) Fantastics & Jackie Fulton v Joel Deaton, Billy Black & Jimmy Golden (#600 SMW 03/21/92-04/11/92) Fantastics v Mike Jackson & Steve Pritchard (#640 NWF 06/92/Heritage '89) Fantastics v Brett Sawyer & Sam Houston (#640 NWF 06/92/Heritage '89) Fantastics v Paul Orndorff & Paul Roma (#833 WCW TV Fall '94) Fantastics v Steven Regal & Bobby Eaton (#892 WCW #61 03/95-07/95) Fantastics & Brad Armstrong v Larry Zbyszko, Rick Steiner & Al Perez (#940 NWA Philly 1988-1989) Fantastics v Original Midnight Express (#940 NWA Philly 1988-1989) Fantastics v Bill Dundee & Dutch Mantel POLE MATCH(#1025 USWA comm releases) Fantastics v Owens & Siegel (#1036 Mid South 06/23/84-08/11/84) Fantastics v Bob Orton & Pat Rose (#1036 Mid South 06/23/84-08/11/84) Fantastics v Veasy & Brickhouse Brown (#1036 Mid South 06/23/84-08/11/84) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Hans Schroeder (#1036 Mid South 06/23/84-08/11/84) Fantastics v Owens & Jim Horton (#1036 Mid South 06/23/84-08/11/84) Fantastics v Steve Williams & Gino Hernandez (#1078 Mid South Power Pro 09/23/84-10/13/84) Fantastics v Tony Falk & Taras Bulba (#1327 Memphis 11/16/85-12/14/85) Fantastics v Jerry Garman & Benny Traylor (#1327 Memphis 11/16/85-12/14/85) Fantastics v Paul Brown & Raider (#1568 Mid South Houston 07/85-08/85) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Tom Pritchard (#1568 Mid South Houston 07/85-08/85) Fantastics v Pat Rose & Tom Pritchard (#1568 Mid South Houston 07/85-08/85) Fantastics, Koko Ware & Scott Casey v Bulba, Morgan, Falk & Rose (#1618 Memphis TV 01/11/86) Fantastics v Undertakers (#1620 Memphis TV 02/01/86) Fantastics v Midnight Express 2/3 FALLS (#1798 WCCW 06/08/85-06/15/85) Fantastics v Mike Davis & Tommy Lane (#1837 WCCW Ft Worth 11/86-01/87) Fantastics v Peterson & Tatum (#1856 WCCW 09/28/85-11/01/85) Fantastics v Sting & Eddie Gilbert 2/3 FALLS (#1883 UWF Houston 10/86-11/86) Fantastics v Ray Mendoza & The Libyan (#1897 UWF Houston 06/86-07/86) Fantastics v Rick Steiner & Buzz Sawyer (#1898 UWF Houston 05/86-06/86) Fantastics v Dale Veasy & Don Sanders (#1911 Mid South 09/84)

The stipulation doesn't play into the match at all, so I wonder why they even bothered with it. It seemed that every Guerreros tag around that time was called a Mexican Death Match, though.

I want to do more, but I've had trouble finding time. I'll try to do it before I go, but when I get back from vacation, if I haven't done it yet, I will then. I believe Steve Austin came in second, and Rock third I believe.

Rock & Roll Express & Jose Lothario v Chavo & Hector Guerrero & Buddy Landell - Mid South 1984 (Mexican Death Match) Man, the Guerreros are awesome! I wish Chavo and Hector had had a run in the NWA, because they'd probably be remembered as being close to the same level as the Midnight Express and far ahead of the Rock & Roll Express. They're the ones doing the majority of the work that resonates here -- check out the competition the Guerreros and Landell get into trying to see who can sell Jose's weak punches the best, and so many of the stooging tactics (i.e. getting shown up and retreating to the arms of your tag team partner) are things Eddy took from them and still does when working as a heel today. Landell, when he's in, is pretty good too, mainly for his selling and his tremendous body language. He's not quite in Flair's class as a worker, but the gap isn't as huge as you'd think, as his flailing and huge movements are perfect for a six-man tag environment. They sell for Jose like he's the top draw and the promoter's son or something, almost lining up and fighting each other for the opportunity to take bumps off of him. The heels are also the ones who bring the cool moves to the match, like Hector's awesome vertical suplex and Chavo's terrific bear hug into a belly-to-belly suplex and leg lariat. The faces are just ordinary. They're not particularly bad, but there's no real extended face in peril segment to speak of, and no real point where the outcome seems anything but immiment. This is a short match, but it's paced early on like they're going broadway. The Rock & Rolls do some nice stuff, but it's over-the-hill Jose Lothario who makes the most of the spotlight he's given, believe it or not. Lothario's punches mean more than a thousand double dropkicks, even if it's the double dropkick that wins the faces the match. Again, getting there, it's not so much that they did anything wrong, but the finish seemed to come out of nowhere. Time management was a problem here, because for all of the fun heel work, the faces dominated too much and too long early on, when that's probably the one part of the match that was the most disposable. They also waste time by teasing Gibson as the face in peril briefly before tagging Morton, which wasn't designed to go anywhere and didn't have enough impact or good work to be meaningful anyway. Don't get me wrong -- there's some excellent work contained in this, but all watching this made me want to do was see Chavo & Hector work against other teams.

They had a short stint in Memphis and I have most of that on videotape. They had longer runs in WCCW and Mid South, though.

From the AJPW match list at tOA: 08/19/90 Fantastics vs. Embry & Charland ***1/4 09/23/90 Fantastics vs. Malenko & Kikuchi ****3/4 09/23/90 Kobashi & Ace vs. Fantastics (All Asia) ***1/2 07/07/91 Fantastics v Kroffat & Furnas ****

The cage used for some Lawler/Savage match I've seen was quite bad. I do know there were early cage matches that literally used chicken wire. Absolutely. This used to be very common. Anyone who sees an SMW cage match will laugh out loud the first time they see the structure.