Loss

I suspect this is all to set up HHH attacking Jordan because reasons, then Jordan turning on pops because reasons to give HHH the Summerslam win because reasons.

It feels more like something they would have done in 2007-2008 than 1999. Less incest and spousal abuse, more "Paul, I can't feel my legs!" and angles involving Mr. Kennedy.

Would Miz have had a career turnaround without that Talking Smack promo?

Since we live in Bizarro World, Raw Talk probably does get higher viewership numbers, just like Daniel Bryan isn't a draw, Roman Reigns is over and sells tons of merchandise, and everything else that is up is really down. Nothing makes any sense. Edited to add: I remember reading once that NCIS is a show that nobody watches except 14 million people, in the sense that it's one of the highest rated shows on TV but gets almost no water cooler talk or critical buzz. So I'm starting to think that's how wrestling works now.

WWE has been perpetually building to a future that never arrives for many years now.

Hey, Test wasn't half bad.

It is a balancing act, and of course heels have to build heat. But even heels dominating can be fun and exciting. When fans can tell their moment is coming, they are usually willing to be patient and go along for the ride. When it's questionable or obvious that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, that's a different story.

I suspect Soundcloud isn't long for this world. https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/12/soundshroud/amp/

I don't even think Rey proves anything about an entire group of guys so much, but he does make the case for variety. Rey was over because of his size, not in spite of it. But you also can't have 10 Reys in top positions, just like you can't have ten of anyone.

They should push Corbin because people seem to buy Corbin. Of course, that's the same reason they should push guys like Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn. I'm all for more stars. I don't think we have to forge some type of ideological war between "smark" favorites and Vince's favorites. I think there's room for everyone.

Oh, I agree that WWE does try placating that audience to an extent. But I don't know how different it is from their historic approach, when one might say they were placating a similar audience with Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Rey, etc, although admittedly each of those guys did prove to have broader appeal over time in different ways. It's treated as a new approach when I don't really see how it is. And to be clear, I'm someone who thinks they should be building around Reigns, Corbin, and Strowman, just as they are. Rollins and Ambrose are fizzling out. But I also think there's room to put guys like Cesaro and Zayn at least on the level of Styles, Owens, and Joe where they can be challengers in PPV main events anytime they are needed. I don't know -- it's more a personal thing than something I think they need to do for their survival or success. Watching a company at war with its hardcore audience regularly has moved from being strangely fascinating to tired and uncomfortable.

If Daniel Bryan won the 2015 Royal Rumble, Reigns would be over as top babyface, precluding some other blunder after that. He wasn't getting booed after going solo in 2014.

Why would one assume that the people who are in the crowds make up the majority opinion about Raw instead of thinking that maybe they are a hardcore minority of people who spend tons of money going to shows? I'd trust the hard numbers more than I would fickle crowds who boo Roman and supposedly want someone else in his spot yet chant CM Punk while Sami Zayn is in the ring in a talking segment or play with a beach ball during a cruiserweight match. And before someone says something about how they might alienate their fans by pushing someone those fans "reject" let's not discount signs that say "I came to boo Roman Reigns" the fact that we already saw that didn't happen with John Cena or that a lot of "I'm a smart, REAL wrestling fan!" are actually really stupid and are the types of people who buy tickets so they can go and attempt to "hijack" the show with chants. This is a problem unique to this company at this time in pro wrestling history. That suggests it's a structural issue that can be fixed. To me, watching vocal fans, whether they are a majority or a minority isn't the issue. They reject the creative direction of the company on television and it's an uncomfortable viewing experience. And even if WWE is by and large delivering what their paying customers want to see, it creates an illusion that they aren't. Either give in to the loudmouths or outsmart them to get them on board. I don't care which. I would just rather it all align. A top babyface getting booed so passionately is sort of like watching a preschooler pee himself on stage in a school play. I just find it uncomfortable.

There is a vast difference between the hard numbers and what we all see plain as day in front of us. More than anything, I just wish WWE would try to figure out the root cause of that and fix it. They could make Sami Zayn champ and have the crowd (I mean that figuratively) or they could improve their creative so that their top babyfaces get cheered. Either way is fine with me. I just want crowd reactions and booking direction to align again.

Roman has what it takes to be a top guy in terms of in-ring and presence and all of that. I even think based on the outside media I've heard him do he could be a force if he had a little more freedom on promos. The problem has been awful booking getting him there. Fans want to feel like they were part of that climb, and that they played a part in the wrestler getting to the top. That dynamic is completely missing with Reigns. There's nothing really to share when he's victorious, because no one was ever allowed in. He's meant to receive admiration for his hair, not empathy for his heart. That said, he's the top heel to people who want to boo him and the top babyface to people who want to cheer him. He's already in that role. He has been for a long time, and will be for a long time. In that sense, it's working. I just find it humorous that "business is fine" is the reason WWE isn't seeking changes. Business being fine with Jinder Mahal as champion on one side and a guy who does a six minute title defense in his first match in three months on the other, which means they could put whoever they wanted in those spots, book whatever shit they wanted, and not really see any difference. (One could argue they have to an extent, even if there are definitely lower periods for the company aesthetically, and there are a decent number of feuds clicking at the moment.) I'd prefer an optimist streak where they just go all the way giving their fans what they actually want to see, realizing business is not going to change no matter what they do with rare exceptions. If Jinder as champ doesn't prove there's no bottom to drop now, what does?

Ha, if they really wanted to put more heat on Roman, it would have been hilarious for the ambulance match to also have a #1 contender stip and for Roman to get the shot anyway since Braun can't step up to accept the match. Then they don't have to do Reigns vs Joe, who Reigns has yet to beat, and Reigns has two opponents right out of the gate. Not a big deal that they're doing it this way, but it's one little detail that would have made a difference.

As Dave mentioned on WOR, WWE seems to want their top guys to be both babyfaces and heels now so they aren't limited in the matches they can run on top. See Brock, Reigns, and now Strowman. Joe may be going in that direction too.

Ross did call his first New Japan show in 2015, so one has to wonder at what point he stops getting leeway for not knowing details about the wrestlers, their backgrounds and the nuances of their in-ring work, especially when there are so many English-speaking wrestlers and superfans who would be happy to answer any questions he has.

I don't know about Barnett, but I'm sure they see JR as a draw.

I went back and read tweets and I'm quite confused. Is this about Scott Williams or possibly drunk commentary? And what does one have to do with the other?

That's brilliant.

Wrestling actually lost a ton of fans during that time who were disillusioned with where everything was going. Luckily, they were replaced by far more fans who got into where wrestling was going, at least until the early 90s.

That's an interesting take, and looking at the melodrama of moments like the Megapowers handshake and the Ultimate Warrior matches, along with the labored perfection of the Steamboat match, I can certainly see the logic. I do think there's a lot of stalling and comedy nonsense like hiding behind the valet and taking bumps in ring attire that haven't really had staying power, but I guess there are things in Shawn matches if we look close enough that haven't continued as well. I don't say "nonsense" as a negative, by the way, as it was one of my favorite things about fall out of bed Randy Savage matches.

I don't think Shawn is the greatest worker in WWE history, but I think he's the greatest WWE worker in history. He has had a greater impact on the working style in the company, for better or for worse, than anyone else I can say. He was for all intents and purposes the first ladder match guy and the first HIAC guy, and set the standard for probably the two most influential gimmick matches in WWE of the last 20-25 years. You can poke holes in his work, just as you can poke holes in the company's preferred working approach, but I'd say those holes are largely one and the same. Still, I think more than anyone else, he's the guy who owns how WWE guys work. Much of that is mythmaking, and the idea of giving it your all on big and small shows night after night was never Shawn's forte, even though the guys he has inspired seem to view themselves as having that sort of unbridled passion. But I think looking at a GWWE is very different than looking at a GWE, and the myth carries a lot more weight in a company with such a fascist take on its own history.

He has sort of a rep, but frustration may be deserved in this case. Who knows? Whether he is can be debated, but given the overlapping indy history with so many of them, I can see in his mind how he would think he's at the same level as AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Samoa Joe, and Finn Balor, and wonder why he's not treated like he's at that level?