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Everything posted by Loss
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I must have missed when Jack Swagger, The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan (pre-2013) and CM Punk (pre-2011) became career top guys because they won the title. In contrast, Steve Austin won the title for the first time after he got over as a top guy and people wanted him to be at that level, as did Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley and a host of other people. You tell me which works better. When someone who fans don't perceive as being at the top level wins the title, it doesn't suddenly make that wrestler seem at the top level. It makes the championship mean less. It should be the culmination of a journey to the top, not the beginning of it.
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Here's a big one to ponder. A condition of JCP selling to Turner was that Flair would be around. Flair came close to signing with the WWF during this time, which would have changed wrestling history in many ways. Just a few things to ponder among many: - Would the WWF have ended up with a monopoly as early as 1988? How does wrestling history change if WCW never exists? - Would JCP have been able to sell off to TBS at all, possibly at lesser value? All of these questions assume there is a monopoly at this point: - What are the big money matches and just how big money are they? Hogan-Flair, Savage-Flair, Hogan-Savage vs Sting-Luger, Hogan-Luger, Warrior-Sting, Warrior-Luger, Road Warriors-Demolition, Hogan-Savage vs Flair-Windham, Hogan-Sting, and probably others I haven't even thought of. - How does Hogan's career arc change? How does Flair's career arc change? Sting's? Luger's? Savage's? Ultimate Warrior's? - Who does the WWF decide they have no place for and/or the talent has no interest in working for? Do Corny and the MX end up working Memphis, Dallas and Continental, for example? - Does the WWF still take Dusty? Does Dusty still want to go? These questions assume there is no monopoly and that TBS still purchases JCP: - How does WCW build up without Flair and make it work, recognizing that the WCW audience was different than the WWF audience? Who came closest to fitting the bill in terms of being a hardcore darling, great worker as a heel or babyface and strong promo that could fill that role? - Would a Flair run in 1988-1989 be much different than a Flair run in 1991-1992?
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Agreed. Not to mention that it's hard for me to think of a time that making someone a champion got someone over who wasn't already over. Wrestling works much better when the title needs the wrestler than when the wrestler needs the title.
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I almost broke my personal no GIF policy to post the one of Homer Simpson disappearing into the bushes here.
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What If: John Cena gets fired before developing the rapper/thuganomics gimmick?
Loss replied to C.S.'s topic in Pro Wrestling
We take John Cena for granted sometimes. A true living legend. I think HHH would have had a 2002-2003 run for another 10 years or so. -
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In 2017, babyfaces provide entertainment. Heels block utopian booking.
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It's not about what Moolah did. It's about people knowing what she did. I wouldn't say it's common knowledge, but far more people knew about it than I would have expected when I tweeted about it months ago. It's not about the merits or faults of whether it should be considered. It's about if it's fairly known among fans that someone's reputation isn't on the up and up.
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Vince makes a huge play for Hogan or Warrior. He talked to both in late '97-early '98, and I think he would have thrown out even more money to make something happen. If it's Hogan, it works, but only for a short period of time. A WCW without Hogan at that point is interesting, because I suspect Bischoff would have lost his will to live and Nash would have immediately lobbied to get everything centered around him and sabotaged Goldberg before he even got where they were getting him. If it's Warrior, the result is predictable.
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[2000-04-30-AAA] Oscar Sevilla vs Angel Mortal (Hair vs Hair)
Loss replied to soup23's topic in April 2000
Well, Oscar Sevilla is not afraid to take a bump, getting ragdolled twice on the outside right away. Later, he does a tope to the floor where he overshoots and hits the concrete head first and frightens me. Great match! Ok so THIS is now my AAA MOTY. Effective use of the seconds, aggression from Mortal and a willingness to take risks (to put it mildly) from Angel Mortal made this a terrific watch. Great, decisive submission finish to put Sevilla over strong, and the layout was great for presenting Sevilla as a tough guy -- both because of the punishment he took early and because of his temper flare and refusal to back down the longer the match continued. **** -
A strong #2 MOTY so far for AAA. Great stuff. I love how the finish to the second fall was paid off with a cool surprise in the third fall that I won't spoil. The action was fast and furious, and the minis did a ton of clever spots. I liked La Parkita having La Parka's mannerisms down to a science. ***3/4
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Sangre Chicana still has a lot in the tank, and everyone involved here is really good at what they do, but AAA just isn't the right environment for them to have the kind of singles match with second involvement with overdoing it. Talk about a company that can't book anything without getting out of their own way. Rey Bucanero-Tarzan Boy in CMLL back in January was laid out similarly with Satanico in the Texano role and was far more tolerable because Satanico enhanced the action instead of actively taking away from it. In this case, Texano swallows the match whole, partially because he's in full gear and partially because he interferes way too much. This starts to feel like a bad 80s Dump Matsumoto match (as opposed to a good 80s Dump Matsumoto match). This didn't work for me at all.
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I hate to say it, but I don't think a non-musclehead would be viable as WWF champ in the 80s.
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Considering that JCP was outdrawing the WWF on house shows over summer with War Games (before taking a massive dip in fall), Hogan's departure may have bitten hard. Still, not much would have changed long-term. The WWF would have taken a big hit in popularity, since Hogan was the key to everything. JCP still would have self-destructed, even if they had a brief period of strong business. Just like late 90s WCW, but on fast forward. I can see them trying to throw a lot of money at a Sting or a Lex Luger, or maybe The Road Warriors. Sting and Luger weren't huge stars yet, but they fit the mold of what Vince was looking for.
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I really love the description of this as The Rock's Over The Edge. Suspenseful, with lots of twists and turns, and holding Austin off until near the end was great for building the heat. Rock had the deck stacked in such a ridiculous way, far more than Austin did in the '98 match, and everyone at ringside played their role perfectly. The payoff of Earl Hebner coming down to count the fall was awesome too, as I'm sure people were wondering how Rock would possibly win the title if Shane had to be the one to count the fall. I get the argument that this is the feel good match they should have had at Wrestlemania, but they had goodwill capital to spend, and they were able to turn one huge show into two huge shows by stretching it out, so it was the right decision. Having so many big and small payoffs to even give in one match is a sign of how in tune the WWF was with their audience at this point, and how they were hitting on all cylinders. ****1/4
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[2000-04-30-WWF-Backlash] Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho
Loss replied to soup23's topic in April 2000
This was a great match with an awful finish, but not enough to take it down. It also ensures that the feud continues, which is a great thing for these two, since it's simultaneously elevating both of them at this point. Brutally stiff, uncomfortably so at many points, but hard fought and designed to get Jericho over as a tough *wrestler* when to this point, his character hadn't really shown that side very much. I liked the missile dropkick where Jericho misjudged Benoit's placement and Benoit noticed and raised up his hand to swat him away to cover for the spot and make it go off without a hitch. I wish we could have had a finish, but building to a match that had one makes that fine. **** -
This was during the period where they abandoned all hope with Big Show and turned him into a comedy wrestler before shipping him off to OVW for several months. Setting the wisdom of that aside, the Showster impersonation is genuinely hilarious, and I love how the crowd played along with it all. Angle losing was made up for by kicking out of the big boot and legdrop.
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[2000-04-30-WWF-Backlash] Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty
Loss replied to soup23's topic in April 2000
This was pretty great when Malenko was working over S2H's knee, both for Malenko's offense and Scotty's selling. It lost its way and became a get-your-shit-in match when Scotty had to do The Worm and they started trading bombs, at which point the leg was magically healed. I'm usually fine with abandoning limb selling, but not when it's such a sharp turn like that instead of a slow transition. The finish was great though, with Malenko reversing the top rope superplex into a DDT mid-air. They laid the foundation for a classic match, but didn't see it through. Still, the work throughout, even when they went off the map, was compelling. ***1/2 -
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[2000-04-30-NJPW] Jushin Liger & Minoru Tanaka vs Shinjiro Otani & Koji Kanemoto
Loss replied to soup23's topic in April 2000
Otani getting a decisive win over Liger is awesome. A shame he's not long for the junior heavyweight world. And yeah, this is a prime candidate for New Japan World to give us in full, because it looks like it might have been something special.- 2 replies
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- MINORU TANAKA WOTD
- LIGER WOTD
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(and 2 more)
Tagged with:
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[2000-04-30-BJW] Tomoaki Honma & Ryuji Yamakawa vs John Zandig & Wifebeater
Loss replied to soup23's topic in April 2000
I'm not really into Yamakawa as a Honma opponent, but as a tag team partner, I like him a lot. This was a good match. I am always into a good blinding spot where the blinded guy goes for his partner, in this case Zandig unknowingly press slamming Wife Beater after having powder thrown in his eyes. I was groaning when I saw how much setup time was involved in Honma doing the dive through the table while Yamakawa held him, but that was exactly the point, as it allowed a recovery and they never got to the spot. Good stuff. ***