Loss

Even with some really good talent involved, this struggles being in the proverbial WWE divas circa 2009 spot for us after two more dynamic matches. I'm not sure if that's where it fell on the card but it's where it fell in our viewing so there you have it. Add in the clipping and you have a match that shows some promise, but had too much working against it to overcome. Great to see the first PWO2K match of PIMPINELA ESCARLATA though, and this is definitely the best Felino has looked so far. That finish was crazy!

Talked to soup and I think the ambiguous (and highly likely) Villano switchout escaped me. I rewatched and think he's totally right. That makes me love this even more. I'm going ****1/2 now for the obstacles they had to overcome and the execution of everything.

I remember seeing the movie Dirty Dancing on TV when I was a kid. I found it interesting that the movie was set in the 1950s, yet everyone had hairstyles that no one in the 1950s would ever have. Despite the attempts at a throwback, the 1980s in which the movie was filmed couldn't help but show. I later noticed that to be the case with most movies set in a different time period. I don't think very many white men who were alive in the 1800s and traveled by horse had long hair they kept in a ponytail, for example, but the westerns might have you believe that. A John Wayne in 2017 would not at all be the same as John Wayne was in his day, even if they were both making movies to represent the same time period. This was my first thought when I saw how much time this match had (18:32, including pre and post-match footage). I believe El Dandy's classic title matches with Angel Azteca and Negro Casas both went nearly 40 minutes. Atlantis and Villano III, who were as versed on that era as anyone since they were part of it, were going to give us throwback title match lucha, but they were going to do it in half the time through a year 2000 lens. It's realistically the most we can expect from a title match airing on Televisa at this point in time, given CMLL's preferred format. It wasn't just the shorter time allotted that was 2000-ish. They worked a mini-angle between the second and third falls teasing that Villano III was out of the match and wouldn't return, only for it to be a swerve, which we will get into in a moment. But that was the first challenge. The second challenge was that this was not the culmination of the feud. Typically in lucha libre, the build happens in the trios matches, and the singles match is the blowoff. In this case, the build happened in the trios matches, and the build continues in the singles match, will continue in more trios matches and will culminate in a high profile apuestas match in a month. So they had to deliver a singles match that maintained interest in the feud, while still working a conventional title match, but do it in half the time. That was the second challenge. The third challenge was that it was a title match in the first place. Prior to this match, the feud was filled with blood, mask ripping, sneak attacks and brawls spilling into the front row seats at Arena Coliseo. However, the tradition of title matches is that they have to be wrestled clean, on the up and up, since they were historically sanctioned by athletic commissions and they needed to create the illusion of legitimacy. So the feud had been building as a blood feud, yet they had to work a fairly straight up scientific style in their match, which would in fact only be used to build to a later match, and would get about half the time that these matches usually needed in order to be great. Whew. Still with me? So all of those obstacles were there before the match even started. Then, the match started and these guys ... sort of made it look easy? It didn't seem like they were rushing anything. Every fall and momentum shift felt fully fleshed out. They did their traditionally great, old-style lucha libre matwork. Villano took the first fall and Atlantis clearly outwrestled him in the second fall and in the process injured Villano's back. Villano retreated to the locker room and the referee made the ultimate decision to start the third fall without him, despite the pleas of Villano's brother. Atlantis loved where this was going, because if Villano could not return to the ring, he would win the match by default with a 2-1 lead in falls. Near the end of the referee's count, Villano bolts into the ring and after a few exchanges where Atlantis dominates him, he finds a quick opening to target Atlantis' knee and get an urgent submission and desperate win before bolting. Everything he did put that over as total desperation and even though it wasn't completely sneaky, he really looked like he weaseled his way through that match and barely retained. So the feud lives on with even more momentum, and they gave us a satisfying match in half the time and within the traditional confines of a title match. Tricky terrain, but two all-time great workers pulled it off. ****1/4

Understandable. However, for whatever it's worth, we really don't get into specifics as far as breaking down matches with only a couple of exceptions, and even then, we are speaking more in platitudes for the most part. We try to speak more in themes and overall takeaways for the month, so it might be a safe listen. If you decide to listen before watching everything, let me know and we can give advice accordingly after future shows on that one.

We could adopt a five-tier approach and go Classic, Great, Very Good, Good, Worth Watching For Other Reasons if you think that would be easier to read.

It always did anyway, but Satanico with that "Phantom of the Opera" opening really gives me goosebumps now. I love CMLL's affinity for overlapping feuds, as that is always one of the hallmarks of any wrestling I love, so now we're getting Casas vs Guapos and Satanico vs Tarzan Boy intersecting. Pretty damn cool. They are continuing to build heat heat heat for that hair match, I guess wanting it to have a total fever pitch. The rudos just completely dominate this in two falls straight, with the technicos showing brief signs of life in the second fall, but it doesn't sustain long at all. For those who think lucha trios matches are formulaic, this is a good match to show that they really aren't -- it's just that a lot of us always focus on high end stuff. The possibility of winning two straight falls is real and happens semi-regularly, so the second fall isn't just some foregone conclusion by any means. I love Satanico trying to beat the cute out of Tarzan Boy. The dude has a yellow heart on the seat of his red trunks for heaven's sake. No one is that wholesome. His naivete and hesitation is his downfall in this case, because when he has Satanico on the defensive, he keeps hesitating and looking to the crowd for support instead of just going for the kill. Satanico's way too crafty an opponent to grant that kind of opening and the results become academic at that point. Not really a great match because of the one-sidedness of it, but the kind of *** match I'd go to bat for as strongly worth seeing. A worthwhile chapter in the story.

They're so focused on the blown rana. I'd be more bothered that these guys only got five minutes on a show I paid to see if I was in that crowd. And yeah, "you fucked up" is probably my least favorite chant in wrestling because it's so entitled. I want a good match as much as anyone and more than most, but I think that crosses a line from wanting to see a great show to being disrespectful to the people trying to give you one who might not do it perfectly sometimes. I do think it rattled Crazy a little because he seemed off his game a little in this one, so maybe it's not that they were "given" five minutes. Maybe they just wanted to get away from these losers. Can't say I blame them.

Oops! Fixed. It's there now.

Chad and Charles present the first PWO2K podcast, where we talk about wrestling from January 2000. We start by explaining what the PWO2K project is all about and what our goals are before talking about wrestling all over the world. WWF, WCW, ECW, the indies, Japan, Mexico — if it happened, we likely talked about it. We talk about the best matches of the month and touch on new workers that have surprised us. We also check in on wrestlers that made their names in previous eras and both of us get a chance to weigh in on matches where we had the most disagreement. We hope you’ll check it out. This link also includes a list of match recommendations where we have placed the matches in four tiers based on our combined opinions. Scroll past the audio link for the list and a full explanation. http://placetobenation.com/pwo2k-wrestling-in-the-2000s-1-january-2000/

I agree with those criticisms, but I still think Akiyama was better as an opponent because Kobashi really struck me as boring with Vader. He was doing the old style big man spots, like struggling to execute a vertical suplex and not being able to do it, instead of just going for it and realizing what makes Vader Vader. So I credit Akiyama for at least getting the uniqueness of the wrestler he was facing instead of wrestling Vader like he was King Kong Bundy.

I can re-pin it. No biggie.

Just trying to unclog some of the pinned stuff at the top of the page. No ideological reason.

The Hero thing is interesting too because he has been around for almost two decades and has been having lots of acclaimed matches that have made tape for virtually that entire time. I've noticed just in researching 2000s stuff that he more than maybe any other indy guy from that generation will work just about anywhere that will take him, where most guys seem to have a core group of indies and don't venture much outside of it. Add him peaking even higher in recent years and maybe he does knock off someone like a Misawa. It's highly possible.

For me this may honestly be someone like Hero once we finish the 2000's because just in 2016 alone, I had 22 matches for him at **** or above. Zack Sabre Jr. isn't for everyone certainly but he may have had more **** matches than that. The ability of every weekend that some of these indy workers can produce 2-3 great matches that make tape shows how far we have come in a distribution era. Ironically, this is where Flair -- someone for whom we have ridiculous amounts of footage -- is hurt by footage. Because there's no doubt he was having 4+ matches week in, week out in the late 70s and early 80s, but we just don't have it. I didn't list any of the "other" Steamer matches, for example. Landover we know about, but there are loads of them. Mid-Atlantic stuff we basically have to write off, do you think Loss? To an extent, but I think some of those film footage matches are close enough to complete (or even are complete) that I feel comfortable rating them. For example, there's a complete 25-minute Flair-Valentine match buried in all of that from 1980 that is pretty great (that I forgot and would also put at that level) and I remember thinking the same of some of the matches against Wahoo, Steamboat and Blackjack Mulligan where we saw a good 10-12 minutes of action. That's probably true for some of the Flair-Valentine vs Andersons tags also. Some of the matches I don't think we see anywhere close to enough to fully judge, but in quite a few cases, we get a lot more than we sometimes get of matches on 80s and 90s All Japan and New Japan TV that routinely got up to ****1/2 ratings in the WON, so I am very comfortable going there in those cases. At some point, we need to actually pilfer through the Mid Atlantic film footage (and the St. Louis, Florida, Detroit, California and WWWF film footage) and isolate the stuff that is either complete or close enough that it can be properly assessed.

I have never taken the time to calculate, but for the 90s, I have 11. For the 80s, just from glancing at the lists in his GWE nomination thread, I came up with 44, along with 3 others I thought of. There is also one I thought of from the late 70s. I know I should take the time to at the very least list them all, but I'm in a hurry at the moment. But unless he shocks me with something after the 90s, which I don't expect, I think my grand total would be somewhere around 59 based on what I've seen right now. I still have viewing gaps. I would imagine the person with the most ****+ matches in history that have made tape would have to be Misawa.

As New Japan multi-mans go, this isn't in the top tier, but it's still a very good match. The painful truth about these types of matches is that the crowd has to do their part to put them over the top and create atmosphere, and they really didn't here. The work was strong, but when you spend 20+ minutes building to everyone in the ring brawling and going all out and Hashimoto having paired down interactions with Chono and Tenzan while their teammates are held at bay, it seems like the crowd would be a bit more invested, because these guys laid a very strong foundation. Still, this is absolutely worth seeing and manages to be a near great match even without the crowd going bonkers. A star-studded, action-packed extravaganza. ***3/4

Liger continues to brutalize Kanemoto. Give the guy a break. He finally seems to have enough and Liger just shrugs it off and powerbombs him. I really hate this booking. I loved Otani shoving the ref to do something about Liger being a bit excessive and being eager to come in and put a stop to it. Liger makes mincemeat of him too. I really hate this booking. Otani fares better when Kashin tags in, and at least Kanemoto gets to do a plancha to the floor on Liger to take him out for a moment, even if that and 100 pennies gives him a dollar. Liger KOs Otani. I really hate this booking. Kashin covers Otani and gets the fall. I really hate this booking. I'm ready for Liger to be Liger again.

I thought this was really good, bordering on great. Probably a bit long for what they were going for, which was on the light side, but still, good action, easy to follow with a self-explanatory storyline and some cool detail work from everyone. I thought pretty much everyone did something really cool to impress me in some way or another, and I always enjoy a good vet vs youngster dynamic. Of course, as we know age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time, and that was certainly true here. Toyota has looked awesome in 2000 every time I've seen her thus far, and I've quickly become a fan of Ran Yu Yu. Carlos Amano I'd like to see more of as well. This reminded me of the Misawa-Jumbo 6-mans of the early 90s and AJW doing a version of that series would have represented a very cool new direction for a while, but it wasn't to be. I could see some matches being better than others, but I feel like there's a classic buried somewhere in all of this. The post-match angle between Kansai and Hotta suggests they'll have a match soon, and that would have excited me in 1993, but it feels awfully passe in 2000. ***3/4

I know Maekawa was a polarizing figure online in 2001 (along with Momoe Nakanishi and Nanae Takahashi) and this match makes it clear why that was the case. She does some things pretty well in terms of execution, but it all doesn't come together for whatever reason. I like Yumiko Hotta, but I do think Maekawa sort of embodies the worst tendencies of Hotta, especially when she was younger, relying on her footwork to the detriment of the rest of her game and not selling as effectively as she could. Luckily, she is in the ring with Azumi Hyuga, who I think gives an awesome performance, one that I would call the second best carryjob of the year thus far in fact. The matwork soup mentioned was pedestrian in many ways, but Hyuga elevated it with excellent selling. This resembled Misawa-Hase if you like sound strategy in your wrestling, but where it wasn't as effective was that it had almost the full inverse dynamic -- instead of an outsider bringing his style to the home team's kingpin, you have the home team champion bringing her style to the outsider, and it doesn't work nearly as well. Still, it's a very good match, and Hyuga has quite the toolkit at her disposal to make her look good. She also does far better rolling Germans than Benoit had done at this point in five years, bridging up through all of them, and she does an excellent job of getting Maekawa's feet over as deadly weapons. Almost every time she is covered for a nearfall, she makes sure she is positioned near the ropes so she can get over her desperation. So even though she wins the match and the title, she made Maekawa look as good in losing as possible, with the kicks as the great equalizer that manage to stop her in her tracks every single time. You get the sense watching this that Maekawa will make a comeback and have her day, and that can pretty much solely be attributed to Hyuga's performance. ***1/2

This whole match really is kind of bizarro world with Watanabe and Takahashi wrestling like the LCO and the LCO wrestling like typical LCO opponents. Mita and Shimoda get jumped before the bell, react to chaos with focused wrestling and finally realize their only survival option is to fight fire with fire. It's fun seeing them play defense and reacting to the circumstances around them instead of being catalysts for a change. There were moments when their usual selves peaked out, but only moments. When I hit the 18-minute mark or so, I realized this will be GREAT if Watanabe and Nanae win because they've cracked some type of code by outqueening the queens. But if they lose, I would feel like this cool idea was wasted for no reason, even if it was still a good match. Shimoda ends up draping Watanabe over the balcony, which reminds me of Megumi Kudo's retirement tour match against Kandori, and ultimately the match ends in a double countout before a post-match brawl with the bell ringing every half-minute or so to signify mayhem. What is this, 80s All Japan? I would have preferred any finish to that, but this feud rages on, and it at least builds to bigger matches, so I can forgive it. I will accept that I wanted this to be something it just wasn't intended to be and be happy that I got a good match. ***1/2

Wow. This only went about five minutes but they cut a super fast pace and went balls out for all of it. Benoit's strength spots on Rikishi got over big time, and Rikishi is a great guy for Benoit to work with at this stage because it establishes that Benoit is a player. DQ finish with the Radicalz running in until Too Cool make the save, which sets up their No Way Out six-man. I enjoyed the hell out of the match and I'd love to see a longer single match.

I agree that the NAO seemed to have turned the volume up. I think the Radicalz had that immediate effect, specifically the red hot 10-man tag. Aside from their babyface intro that I will always complain about, they did put in more effort here. I liked the finish a lot with Cactus hitting Road Dogg with the pipe, then pulling him up and piledriving him (I love the Funk-Foley version of the piledriver) for the win. Rock is ungodly over, but took a lesser role in this match since Foley is headlining the next show. Lots to love here. ***

This was an excellent 6-minute tag match with Christian once again as FIP doing an awesome job of it before Edge comes in and cleans house as the hot tag. Bubba Ray and D-Von can work and talk and do it all. I don't know that I ever really gave them enough credit as workers. The post-match angle is off the charts, with Bubba Ray faking a knee injury solely so EMT "Barbara Bush" (Remember her?) would come out to help cart him off and he could lure her in to put her through a table before he went into that pseudo post-coital trance. They were really pushing the psychosexual part of Bubba Ray's character without saying as much, which is pretty deep by pro wrestling standards, but that it turned him babyface is pretty revealing about the Attitude Era fanbase. That aside, the match was good and the post-match was great. The WWF did a phenomenal job getting over the Dudleys as top stars. ***