Bix

No, that's not it at all. As noted earlier, several years ago Dave stated that he felt Maeda would, at that point, have never been voted in if he hadn't been inducted in the initial class. As JDW and others pointed out, this is ridiculous, and if he truly believed/believes that, it's an indictment of the voters more than it is of Maeda. In 2013 I have no problem with Todd Martin having a ballot but ten years ago he was a guy arguing Sting should go in solely because he felt '90s American wrestling was under-represented, to the point of messaging Dylan at Wrestling Classics and asking him to start "an affirmative action campaign"" to get him in. He absolutely did not deserve a ballot then but got one because he sent stuff in to the Observer site. I have no idea what Dan Wahlers is doing nowadays or if he ever learned anything, but he got a ballot within months of sending "columns" to the Observer site. He never watched WCW and actively eschewed it because of his childhood WWF loyalty. During that period, he told a reader who emailed him that the reason he voted for IWA Mid-South (during their rise to prominence in the early aughts), which he had never seen a match from, as the worst promotion in the WON Awards because rival Louisville promoter Jim Cornette was always bashing them. He absolutely didn't deserve a ballot then, either. This was the year where Michaels went in. That year there was, no exaggeration, something like 50 to 100 new "writer/journalist" voters that year after the voter pool had been stagnant for several years (not like it is now where Dave is much more open to new voters). Plenty of people noted it was weird at the time. The idea that Dave had stacked the pool of voters with people who shouldn't be voting is not just an insult with nothing of substance behind it. Fair play. Although what I took from EC's post was that he was implying that Dave is intentionally "stacking the deck" by choosing voters who think like he does. If I was wrong, I apologize. I don't think Dave would ever intentionally do that. Would he do it without realizing it by virtue of the demographics of who would end up as newer voters? Yes.

No, that's not it at all. As noted earlier, several years ago Dave stated that he felt Maeda would, at that point, have never been voted in if he hadn't been inducted in the initial class. As JDW and others pointed out, this is ridiculous, and if he truly believed/believes that, it's an indictment of the voters more than it is of Maeda. In 2013 I have no problem with Todd Martin having a ballot but ten years ago he was a guy arguing Sting should go in solely because he felt '90s American wrestling was under-represented, to the point of messaging Dylan at Wrestling Classics and asking him to start "an affirmative action campaign"" to get him in. He absolutely did not deserve a ballot then but got one because he sent stuff in to the Observer site. I have no idea what Dan Wahlers is doing nowadays or if he ever learned anything, but he got a ballot within months of sending "columns" to the Observer site. He never watched WCW and actively eschewed it because of his childhood WWF loyalty. During that period, he told a reader who emailed him that the reason he voted for IWA Mid-South (during their rise to prominence in the early aughts), which he had never seen a match from, as the worst promotion in the WON Awards because rival Louisville promoter Jim Cornette was always bashing them. He absolutely didn't deserve a ballot then, either. This was the year where Michaels went in. That year there was, no exaggeration, something like 50 to 100 new "writer/journalist" voters that year after the voter pool had been stagnant for several years (not like it is now where Dave is much more open to new voters). Plenty of people noted it was weird at the time. The idea that Dave had stacked the pool of voters with people who shouldn't be voting is not just an insult with nothing of substance behind it.

On top of that: While obviously plenty of candidates have in-ring work factored in, of those got in with work as a considerable/primary/sole criteria, how many weren't go-go-go workrate guys? Those who were voted in (not the '96-'97 fiat classes) who I'd say went in almost completely on in-ring work: Jushin Liger Akira Hokuto Kenta Kobashi Manami Toyota Chris Benoit Shawn Michaels Kurt Angle Ultimo Dragon Chris Jericho Those who went in mostly based on work but have a little more to their candidacies than the first group: Bull Nakano Eddy Guerrero (Yeah, he had just died but I always got the impression that his increasing drawing ability still helped him) Hiroshi Hase Aja Kong While if he stays on the right track, Tanahashi is going to be a more well-rounded candidate in a few years, and I would absolutely vote for him if he keeps this up for another, I dunno, 3-5 years, right now he's glorified workrate candidate. The wrestlers who went in as workrate candidates were mainly historical newsletter reader favorites and who were go-go-go types in their primes. Nobody's getting in the HOF for work based on being a great worker. They're getting in based on the perception of being a great worker. Loss has talked about this before. The WON HOF is theoretically, according to Dave, set apart by the number of active and retired wrestlers voting, but Buddy Rose was universally considered a uniquely brilliant worker and couldn't stay on the ballot. WWE wrestlers consider Kane one of the best workers in the world for like 15 years running and he couldn't stay on the ballot. Hell, even on the newsletter reader fan side, Bill Dundee has never been on the ballot, but he's a guy who didn't have much easy to find footage in the '80s and still landed a few spots on the Flair and Japan-dominated Jeff Bowdren top matches of the '80s list, but it's not like Memphis brawling got any kind of continuous push over the years so he's not seen as a guy who can get in based on work. Since the Japanese wrestlers are Japanese and that's the land of snowflakes and workrate and robot dogs and used schoolgirl panty vending machines, Tanahashi has quickly picked up the uberworker rep and thus has a clear path to the HOF. If Buddy Rose was having the same exact matches on NJPW TV in the early '80s he'd be in the HOF right now. Also, I'll note that if Tanahashi gets 60% of the votes actually coming from Japan I have no problem with him being voted in since, like I said weeks ago in this thread, what actual Japanese people see as HOF-worthy for Japanese stars is so different from what we see as HOF-worthy for Japanese stars. It's at the point where I'd prefer nobody outside of Japan votes on Japan since they have unique standards. As culturally different as Lucha Libre is, there aren't the same disparities.

-Work alone isn't getting Tanahashi in, -But it certainly could. I know this is going to open a gigantic can of worms, and I realize there is probably no good reason to do this because i'm clearly on the wrong side of the proverbial tracks, but sometimes on this site there is a severe lack of self awareness of the niche fetishism for people like Rose, Dundee, etc. If you asked me if i'd rather watch my house burn down or watch a typical Dundee southern style punch fest, i'd think hard before settling in for the match. Memphis is about as appealing to me as GLOW or lightning tube death matches (hint: I don't like those things), so i'll chalk that up to style. But Rose I like, he's fine as a small territory heel, actually very good in fact, but don't pretend as if Rose as some slam dunk awesome top ten worker is a universal opinion. It isn't. Tanahashi is churning out non stop ****+ star stuff at a pace that hasn't been matched since Misawa/Kobashi. This run is legendary, and he wasn't chopped liver before it started. He's on a completely different level than somebody like Bill Dundee or Regal, and I love Regal. But Tanahashi's worst singles match this year rival's Regal's best stuff ever. Anyway, this is all subjective. I feel like Dylan does when he wanders over to "my" side of the tracks. My post probably reads as a troll, but that's not the intent. I just don't think the work of people like Dundee or Rose is what your typical HOF voter looks at as HOF level great. Tanahashi's stuff is. Rose being a genius at working isn't exactly a contentious opinion.

Because Dave picked too many fad-happy voters.

But they're not as muscular or hairless as Tanahashi.

Not to be the guy who jumps in with a GIF and says "THIS." but... THIS.

They tried to get the network clearances as an enhanced basic channel. Nobody bit. At all.

Are you serious here? He would have been like the 12th best guy in 1990's AJPW. Many of whom are in, and obviously I don't agree with that ranking anyway. I think this recent two year stretch solidifies him as a Top 5 big match wrestler of all time. He always delivers, and has produced the best match of several people's career in the process, which is always a key measure for me and something that only Daniel Bryan can say as a contemporary (Yujiro, Karl Anderson, Okada, Suzuki, to name a few). He said 12th best. So is Satoru Asako or whoever that would be a hall of Famer?

What he said.

BOO! Also, you never reviewed Millennium Final, did you?

Jerome, you have to review the real last WCW TV show ever: The Worldwide finale.

Meanwhile, the NY Post cited an article I wrote a few days ago that mentioned the contradiction between Stephanie's speaking engagement Wednesday and Vince on the conference call Thursday: http://nypost.com/2013/11/02/wwes-mcmahons...s-to-investors/

For some reason it seems like most of the Google links to threads here have outline mode switched on.

"Dixie, we both know that TNA isn't worth $10 million." I'm incredibly skeptical but it does make a weird kind of sense.

Wasn't Vince's "the Mania meets the Madness!" call on the 10/87 SNME? It seemed like they were setting it up as something huge.

I think the idea was Zeus was a nickname for Tiny Lister who was all rough and shit when the director yelled cut. Or something. But what of Jake Bullet?

I'll be shocked if Dr. Wagner Sr. didnt get in.

Yeah, and Martel had been successfully investing in real estate for several years, too. I think there's sort of an argument for Sting: Found religion, cleaned up his life, and saved his marriage. Only works in TNA because it's a stupid amount of money for very limited dates and very limited wear and tear on his body, allowing him to live a normal life. Yeah, he's still in wrestling but not in a way that's really detrimental to his life in any way.

Pro Wrestling Intellectual 2: Even Intellectualer

TRUE LOVE CONQUERS ALL.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/27/true-stories-...-pro-wrestling/ This is a thing.

And the USWA and Michinoku Pro.

He was in Mid-South a little in '83 too. Used the Gibson Leglock as his finish. The match with DiBiase from Houston where Watts did a new voiceover for Power Pro was from that run.

NY and PA had lots of issues with refs forced on them by the commission in addition to the office refs. It says something that Billy Caputto of all people was the best of that lot. PA was even worse, they'd force ring announcers on. There are old Spectrum shows with three different ring announcers. I went to a USA Pro show in 2001 (around the end of the NY commission really giving a shit about pro wrestling) where a commission ref appeared to decide to shoot hold up a title "in abeyance" (yes, I heard it used before the current WWE program) after a screwy finish.