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Some from a titles spreadsheet, which is an older version here at work with more holes. Some of it from Hisa's puroresu.com, which has old results as he gets them. JWA is pretty solid... AJPW in the 70s less so. Some good IWE stuff early on. John

Short term, it might have worked. 1984 was the height of jingoism in the country for the decade with the Olympics and RR's re-election. Even a song critical of the US became a wildly misunderstood hit: Born in the USA. A correction to the notion that people have: Sarge had zero mainstream at the time. As other point out, the Joe stuff didn't really hit until 1986. His appearance in the cartoons didn't happen until August 1986. Hogan already had Rocky back in 1982. When the Vinces made their plans back in late 1983 to go national, you're looking at these two in this light: * The Top Face of the #2 Territory in the Country that you *must* defeat * A Heel making his second losing run through your promotion So you'd have to turn the second guy, who had never worked face in your promotion before, and who basically spent the past four years as a top heel in the WWF and Mid-Atlantic. And hope that it takes off across the country. In turn, you've got a guy who already is a massive face in the territory your must break into. He's been a hot face for the past two years. It's not like Verne was doing an off the charts job of promotion: it's the WWF that had the long history of Dynastic Anchor Babyface Champs going back to Bruno. Speaking of Bruno, a Dynastic Anchor Strongman Babyface Champ. Hulk was right up Vince's wheelhouse. That's not even getting into the "look", with Hogan being part of the ideal that Vince would push for ages, while Slaughter was a sloppy fat guy. People pointed to work. Any evidence that work played a role in who Vince decided to push hard in that era? At least in how we view work? I don't think he would have cared if Sarge was a better worker or not. He certainly didn't care when selecting Sarge's replacement. * * * * * * * * Sarge probably would have done decent business in 1984. But where does it leave expansion? Does Vince beat Verne in AWA Country with Sarge vs Hogan? That's an interesting one. I doubt it. In fact, Vince would eventually steal Hogan and push him instead of Sarge. Does Sarge play as well in taking over the largely empty West as Hogan did? Does leaving Hogan in the AWA open up the AWA for stronger expansion? Also interesting. I don't think Sarge plays to Cali like Hogan did. Verne often looked west, though not with a ton of success. Or does leaving Hogan in the AWA open up *someone else* expanding by grabbing Hogan as their anchor? Hard to think of who would do that, since the NWA was very work-centric other than the folks intent on pushing themselves. It's hard to see an outsider coming in, especially before the NWA was completely dead: there really weren't a lot of open areas to promote in other than the West and the Non-AWA midwest that Vince gobbled up. Not easy to do a start up. That said, Vince would have needed to completely rethink the path that expansion took, where the key elements were: * taking on the right population of AWA Country * moving into the rich population in the open area between the AWA and WWF * taking the largely open West By occupying the AWA in AWA Country, it freed up Vince in the other two... which he largely rolled uncontested. Does he do the same with Sarge while Hogan is in the AWA? Much harder. Of course we don't know if Verne would see an invasion and decide it was time to push Hogan as the anchor, and build a promotion around him (i.e. not just push Hogan, but also opponents that best fit Hogan). Vince's other key push in expansion was going after a certain kid base. While G.I. Joe was aimed at kids, I've got to say that in 1984 there sure seemed to be a hell of a lot less kids playing War than when I was a kid in 1974. For all the talk we have of the GJ Joe series, there were just two seasons of the original one: 1985-86. There were two mini-series before that in the prior years. The movie went straight to video. They didn't reboot it until 1989/90, and that one just went two seasons. In contrast: Transformers: 4 seasons from 1984-87 Smurfs: 9 seasons from 1981-89 He-Man: 2 seasons from 1983-85 Voltron: 2 seasons from 1984-85 She-Ra: 2 seasons from 1985-86 ThunderCats: 4 seasons from 1985-89 (yikes!) Real Ghostbusters: 7 seasons from 1986-91 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: 10 seasons from 1987-96 (core of 5 seasons from 1989-93) I could go on... but the point is: GI Joe wasn't that massive relatively speaking. I'm not sure that Joe and Army Stuff sold as much as other kid stuff. That was part of the beauty of Hogan: you could roll out his jingoism, but he played to the new fan base Vince wanted across more than just jingoism. Hogan-Orndorff and Hogan-Savage had nothing to do with U-S-A~! U-S-A~! * * * * * Vince could have made money off Sarge in 1984. The time was right to make money off him. Would expansion have gone the same way? No... not unless Vince signed Hogan to replace Sarge when his tank went empty. That would have been a risk though. Would Sarge have sustained business like Hogan did (all the way into 1992)? I don't think anyone believes that. Could Vince have made good money off Sarge being the #2 to Hogan in 1984? Quite possibly. It's possible that there was money to be made having two strong draws working two different cards a night. Focus Hogan where he needs to be, and use Sarge as a change of pace to keep Hogan from being run into the ground in cities... which is what Vince ended up doing anyway. Could it have been sustained? Hard to say... nothing ever was sustained other than Hogan in that era. Hogan was gold, other issues were hit and miss. In 1983 should Vince have seen Sarge as a viable option instead of Hogan, or in the event Hogan didn't bite? I don't think so given Sarge's turn was late in the year when it was likely Vince already set on Hogan. I'm not sold it was clear in October or November 1983 that Sarge would get over as a face as strongly as he did. Even if Vince thought he was a miracle worker, the idea of sustaining it for several years? I don't think that would have crossed his mind. Vince was looking for his National Bruno. Someone who carry the companies flag into every market, often times against fierce opposition, and keep that flag planted for years to come. Sarge certainly didn't look like that in October 1983. I think other than Hogan... there really weren't any other truly viable options out there for what Vince wanted to get done. Vince pretty much is the only promoter at the time who could have pulled off what he did. The WWF probably was the only "territory" from which it could be done to the degree that he did it, though arguably the AWA had a good base to do something similar if it had the vision. Hogan really was the only wrestler at the time who could have anchored it in the fashion he did: from 1984-92, from coast to coast. It's tough to think of who even could have gotten if off the ground to the degree that he did. This is basically a Babe Ruth type of question. After Ruth started going long, others did as well... though not to his level. Could someone else have been Babe Ruth if there wasn't Babe Ruth? It's really hard to see because Ruth literally challenged the way the game was played, was slagged for it, flipped the bird at the criticism, changed the way the game was played, was such a massive personality that he not only pulled the fans onto his side but kept them there... and was the anchor upon which the greatest "territory" in American Sports was built. Could someone else have done what Babe did in baseball? No. That doesn't mean that more HR's wouldn't have been hit, or that the dead ball era wouldn't have eventually died. But we likely would have seen a gradual change, as we have with bullpen usage over the years. Simply because there was no Babe(s) of Relief who completely revolutionized the game, and refused to knuckle under criticism. Hogan and Vince were the same. There is no one else who could have been either. John

So we'll cut the list down: 2004: Big John Studd & Junkyard Dog (2) 2009: The Von Erichs (5 of them) And it's still not a "rule". John

Looking for legitimacy for what they do. John

The also had a match up in Montreal if I recall. A Destroyer vs Jumbo singles match on tape would be nice. There were very few of them. Look at some of the matches around the Baba & Jumbo vs Texas Outlaws title match: 1975/11/18 Iwakuni, Yamaguchi Murdoch & Rhodes (2-1; COR in 3rd) Baba & The Destroyer 1975/11/21 Kamo, Niigata Baba def Somers Tsuruta & Destroyer (2-1; DQ in 3rd) Murdoch & Rhodes 1975/11/30 Muroran, Hokkaido Tsuruta & Destroyer (time limit draw) Murdoch & Rhodes We know this was a TV taping since so much of it made Classics on G+ 1975/12/06 Tokyo - Adachi Ward Gym Masanobu Fuchi (4:57 pin) Kazuharu Sonoda Munenori Higo (6:19 pin) Atsushi Ohnita Open Championship League: Mighty Inoue (15:32 DCOR) Wrestling Open Championship League: Jonathan (8:00 COR) Anton Geesink Open Championship League: Kintaro Ohki (12:58 pin) Mantell Jumbo Tsuruta & The Destroyer (30min limit draw) Murdoch & Hoffman Open Championship League: Race (10:41 pin) Rhodes Open Championship League: Abdullah (10:02 DQ) Dory Open Championship League: Giant Baba (8:09 pin) Raschke ALL-JAPAN G+ CLASSICS 34 Apr. ‘05 - Harley Race vs. Dusty Rhodes (12/6/75) - Dory Funk, Jr. vs. Abdullah the Butcher (12/6/75) - Giant Baba vs. Baron Von Raschke (12/6/75) The Don Leo Jonathan vs. Anton Geesink and Mr. Wrestling vs. Mighty Inoue were on original Classics (along with Baba-Baron and Dory-Abby). So five matches on the card were taped, including two lower on the card. Hoffman would be pushed pretty hard in the Open League... this was opening night of the league... so that might have been taped. Some other interesting stuff from the period: 1975/12/11 Tokyo - Nippon Budokan "Rikidozan Memorial Show" (14,500) * Joint card by "JWA", IWE, and All Japan Baba & Destroyer (2-1) Tsuruta & Dory 1: Destroyer (13:56 pin) Dory 2: Tsuruta (2:27 pin) Destroyer 3: Destroyer (5:29 pin) Tsuruta

True on that one. From the pics in the mags, it looked like a helluva match. If I recall correctly, it's the one where Kawada gave Misawa that big scar on the chin. Kobashi-Williams from Carny had the finish shown on TV, but if I recall it was a single cam... as if they sent a camera there simply to capture Kobashi's first pin on Doc. Along the same line, Kawada's first pin on Hansen in Carny 1993 would be something awesome to see if it popped up on a handheld. Those two worked magic together in 1993. The "missing 7 minutes" of the 11/30/93 Misawa & Kobashi vs Baba & Hansen would be nice to have since we know it was filmed. The 1994 tag league draw between the two was released on comm... one wished this one had been instead. The Misawa & Kobashi vs Kawada & Taue "league" match in the 1995 RWTL is the only missing one between those teams. John

A few from Japan: 5/63: Destroyer vs Rikidozan Famous bloodbath where Destroyer beats him with the figure four setting up a rematch. Hell, both of them would be wildly interesting. One would think that if it existed in the vault it would be out. It's in the books and mags far more than the 12/63 match that was aired on a special in the 90s and is out there now on disc. 02/28/66 NWA Int'l: Giant Baba vs Lou Thesz (21:13, 2:45, 0:51) Baba won the title in November and then had a quick rematch with The Bruiser. In a sense this is first real defense of his long run with the belt. Lou had just dropped the NWA Title, so was willing to take the payday. From the pics, this has a famous backdrop finish. Would be a great comp to see how Lou matches up with Baba relative to others. 01/03/69 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Antonio Inoki vs Wilbur Snyder & Danny Hodge (15:46, 17:53, tl) 01/08/69 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Antonio Inoki vs Wilbur Snyder & Danny Hodge (18:08, 4:34, 3:45) ∆ 01/11/69 NWA Int'l: Giant Baba vs Wilbur Snyder (16:31, 3:27, 3:27) 02/04/69 NWA Int'l Tag: Wilbur Snyder & Danny Hodge vs Giant Baba & Antonio Inoki (23:59, 1:03, 2:59) ∆ 02/11/69 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Antonio Inoki vs Wilbur Snyder & Danny Hodge (21:32, 3:25, 3:42) A great chance to see how well Snyder and Hodge could go. Most of these had to have been filmed. Whether they're in the vault... who knows. 12/3/69 NWA Title: Dory Funk Jr. vs Giant Baba (60:00) The Inoki-Funk is more famous, which makes this a great double comp: Inoki-Baba (opposite Dory in 60:00 draws) and Dory-Destroyer (opposite Baba in 1969 60:00 draws). 1974/01/24 NWA Title: Jack Brisco vs Race (23:55, 8:56, tl) 1974/01/28 NWA Title: Jack Brisco vs The Destroyer (10:29, 7:32, 9:26) Yeah... those would be great to have available. 11/27/75 Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Dick Murdoch & Dusty Rhodes (13:27, 8:00, 4:50) Almost certainly was taped as it was in Sapporo prior to the start of the singles tourny. So it's sitting somewhere in the NTV Vault. 08/09/68 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Antonio Inoki vs Bruno Sammartino & Ray Stevens (14:52, 4:37) That would be interesting. 12/07/71 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Antonio Inoki vs Dory Funk Jr. & Terry Funk (16:05, 5:34, 4:12) Inoki got the boot after this one. 12/12/71 NWA Int'l: Giant Baba vs Terry Funk (9:57, 7:18, 6:52) Same series, would be really interesting to see young Terry working with Baba. 06/01/72 NWA Int'l: Giant Baba vs Johnny Valentine (12:41, 4:15, 0:52) Dittos Valentine. 08/09/74 PWF: Giant Baba vs Terry Funk (12:18, 6:40, 1:44) Another chance to see Baba and Terry work. 11/05/74 PWF: Giant Baba vs Dick Murdoch (12:58, 7:05, 2:03) 03/08/76 PWF: Giant Baba vs Wahoo McDaniel (11:18, 3:05, 1:44) Same with those two. 10/21/77 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Bobo Brazil & Ken Patera (10:33, 4:38, 5:15) Would be really interested to see Patera and Jumbo work. 10/24/77 PWF: Giant Baba vs Ken Patera (10:29, 5:31, 5:50) Okay... I'm a Patera fan. 07/26/78 NWA Int'l Tag: Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Terry Funk & Dick Slater (16:16, 5:20, 6:55) A match with a lot of time to breath. There are loads more. I'd have to look at another list at home where I have more of Inoki's UN and NWF matches filled in. John

Two others that I came across while looking for the dates on those: 08/08/80 Kiel Auditorium NWA World Champion Harley Race vs Missouri & WWF IC Champion Ken Patera Patera at his peak facing Harley for the NWA Title... that would be really interesting to see. 10/26/84 St Louis AWA champion Rick Martel drew Harley Race (60:00) You really would rather see these guys work 20:00, or work a 30ish 2/3 fall match. Don't know how well they'd fill the 60:00, but it sure as hell would be interesting to find out even if it was subpar. John

Here are the Backlund ones that I can think of: May 22, 1978 Madison Square Garden WWWF World Champion Bob Backlund pinned Ken Patera Several years before their 1980 feud, right at the start of Backlund's reign. Would be interesting to see what they do with each other relative to the greatness of 1980. 07/15/79 Maple Leaf Gardens WWF World Champion Bob Backlund cor NWA US Champion Ric Flair at 23:39 This might be more interesting than the 1982 match since they both had been working a bit in Toronto at that point, something of a neutral court, and a chance to see a younger Flair. 11/07/80 Kiel Auditorium NWA World Champion Harley Race vs WWF World Champion Bob Backlund 2/3 falls Rematch off the MSG match, back in Harley's home... the home of the NWA. Pins in the first two falls before the expected non-finish in the third. Would be interesting to see how the St Louis fans react to the match, and how they lay out a match that has three peaks rather than building to just one (non) finish. 05/01/81 El Toreo De Cuatro Caminos, Mexico City WWF World Champion Bob Backlund vs NWF World Champion Antonio Inoki (18:05, 5:17, 8:01) The only missing Backlund-Inoki match. Would have been very interesting to see how they worked in Mexico. Certainly had lots of time to work. Considering how other New Japan stuff in Mexico was taped and shown in Japan, and how there was a Canak-Fujinami UWA Title match on the card as well... I'm surprised that wasn't tapes and air in Japan. On the other hand, the Inoki-Backlund from wasn't listed in the weekly shot list that Dan Ginnetty translated from a magazine but we know that it did in fact get taped and air in Japan on some kind of unlisted special. So there is perhaps hope that this is buried some place. 08/24/81 Madison Square Garden WWF World Champion Bob Backlund drew IC Champion Don Muraco at 60:00 We have the Philly 60:00 draw. The MSG blow off was much better than Philly blow off, so there's some hope that the MSG 60:00 draw is better than the Philly 60:00 draw... which is a perfectly good match. Pretty sure this is sitting somewhere in the WWE Library vault. Wish the folks who got an advanced copy of the Race-Backlund could work their magic and get this. 12/05/81 Boston Garden WWF World Champion Bob Backlund over Don Muraco (Steel Cage) There are handheld 8mm clips of this, and it looks Fucking Great. As in off the charts great. Highlight clips will do that, but it does make you wish someone filmed the whole thing. 08/02/82 Madison Square Garden WWF World Champion Bob Backlund defeated Bob Orton Jr. at 23:38 The two Philly matches exist and are out there. This never has popped up. Don't know if they taped that night... this would be another one to see out of the vault. Longer than the Philly matches, and after... so there's a chance they had their stuff down even better. The Philly matches are good, with flashes of some really strong stuff. More time, especially in MSG, probably would have done these two well. 01/04/85 St Louis Harley Race drew Bob Backlund This was under a Flair-Brody match, which I'm wondering if was taped for World Pro. Race-Backlund didn't air, but if the Flair-Brody did, it's *possible* this was also taped. If so... who knows where in the heck it would be.

Several Torch posters hate how much coverage the WON gives to MMA, how little interest Dave has in Pro Wrestling, how excited he and Bryan get when talking about MMA on the talk show, etc, etc, standard decades old complaints etc. Bruce stepped in with this funny one: Which is a flawed defense for covering MMA if one things about it for 10 seconds, even if there is a big chunk of truth in sentence. Then later back with: Which was a counter to someone saying Dave doesn't care much about pro wrestling anymore relative to MMA. I don't mind Dave's coverage of MMA. Never have, and always have defended the space he devotes to it. I don't buy the MMA=Pro Wrestling meme (and variations of it) that have popped up over the years. But I don't have a problem with the MMA in the WON. I was around when people complained about the Japanese Wrestling in the WON... the Lucha in the WON... the ECW in the WON... the MMA in the WON. It's all old stuff. John

Any news on Dave and Yahoo? John

The "WON Coverage of MMA" thread on the Torch Boards is mindnumbing. Smart of Wade to stay the hell out of it. John

Also, Brady & Belichick vs. The Manning Boys is the Midnight Express vs Rock 'n' Roll Express of the NFL. Okay... wait... it intially was the nWo vs WCW of the NFL. Then it got good. 09/30/01 Brady 44-13 Peyton (Game 3) This was Brady's *first* start. Think about that for a second... "What's Tom Brady doing here? He doesn't even work in this promotion!?!?" Brady wasn't spectacular, just 13/23 for 168 and no TD. But evil manager Belichick was all over the match working "distraction spots" with Manning: three INT. You could say that this was Manning trying to put over the potential young rival, but it really was Belichick working angles. 10/21/01 Brady 38-17 Peyton (Game 6) This was back in the days when the Colts were in the AFC East and played the Pats twice in the regular season. Coming off a big 350+ yard win over aging babyface Doug Flutie and the Chargers, Brady was an efficient 17/21 for 262 and 4 TD. Manning as 22/34 for 335... but just one TD. The Pats were on their way to the Super Bowl, while Manning's Colts slumped to 6-10. 11/30/03 Brady 38-34 Peyton (Game 12) An epic shoot out where the Pats ran out to a 31-10 lead then "ran out the time limit" to win the game. This built anticipation for a huge rematch in the playoffs: 01/18/04 Brady 24-14 Peyton (AFC Championship) One of Belichick's greatest heeling performances of all time, creating a "game plan" that confused Manning into 4 INT and 4 sacks. Despite the NFL Bookers wanting Belichick & Brady to put over Manning for the good of business, they were having none of it. 09/09/04 Brady 27-24 Peyton (Game 1) Opener to the following season, it looks like Belichick would let his team job to Manning. He lets Manning run out to a 17-10 lead to for some hope, then instructs Brady to drop a quick 17 points on the Colts. 27-17 with everyone knowing how it would turn out. Manning stuffs the stat sheet with high flying spots: 26/38 for 335, 3 TD and an INT. The Evil Hoodie knows they can take Manning at will. 01/16/05 Brady 20-3 Peyton (AFC SF) A rematch in the post season, Colts 12-4 coming off a 49-24 win over the Broncos in first round to try to build them up. Manning threw for 49 TD to set a new record and the NFL booker were praying for a good match. Manning goes a weak 27/42 for 238, no TD and an INT. Belichick works two fumble spots, and his team sacks Manning 3 times. At this point it looks like Peyton will never beat the Hoodie. Brady & Belichick go on to their third Super Bowl in four years. 11/07/05 Brady 21-40 Peyton (Game 8) NFL Creative by this point is FUCKING PISSED at Belichick for never putting over Manning and potentially destroying one of the best draws in the league. Belichick finally agrees to do a job, the Pats defense lays down for Manning, though there's a hint that Brady could have lit it up if he was allowed to (25/40 for 285 with 3 TD and 0 INT). 11/05/06 Brady 20-27 Peyton (Game 8) Not satisfied by just one, NFL Creative orders Belichick job again. Brady isn't happy about this, and is "in no condition to perform": 20/35 for 201 with 0 TD and 4 INT. It was almost as if Brady wanted everyone to know he was laying down for the Colts. 01/21/07 Brady 34-38 Peyton (AFC Championship) The legendary shooting match, where NFL Creative wanted Belichick to lay down again, but the Hoodie and Brady double crossed Manning to run out to a 21-3 lead. Manning sucked it up, and the teams went toe-to-toe in one of the greatest contests in NFL history. Back and forth, each throwing bombs, it became clear that whoever threw the last bomb would score the knockout. Manning did, finally beating Brady & Belichick in a "match that counted". 11/04/07 Brady 24-20 Peyton (Game 9) Tired of NFL Creative's booking, Belichick added mega heel Randy Moss and sneaky tricky heel Wes Welker to his stable, creating an unbeatable team. The defending Champs were 7-0 while the Pats were 8-0... the biggest regular season match in years. Belichick's gameplan was to let the Colts dominate early and blow up, then pound them late. 20-10 Colts lead was overcome with 14 unanswered in the 4th quarter. Order was restored! 12/29/07 Brady 38-35 Eli (Game 16) Trying to run out a perfect regular season, the Pats faced Peyton's spunky goofy younger brother Eli for the first time. No problem, they'll blow them out. Instead the teams squared off in an epic war, one of the great regular season matches of all-time with the Perfect Season hanging in the balance. The Giants too a 28-16 lead in the 3rd and it looked over, but then Brady led the Pats to three straight touchdowns, including a magnificent TD to mega heel Moss. 02/03/08 Brady 14-17 Eli (Super Bowl) The rematch that no one expected, with the outcome no one expected. One of the biggest upsets in league history. 11/15/09 Brady 34-35 Peyton (Game 9) After Brady worked an injury angle in 2008 to deal with "personal problems", he was ready to restablish himself as the top heel in the league. He expected to get put over Manning, and the Pats ran out to 24-7 and 31-14 leads. Manning chipped away at the lead, then Belichick did one of the few stooge heel spots of his career: going for it on 4th down to give the ball back to Manning. Peyton marched the Colts down for the winning TD as the Colts chased their own undefeated season (which they would fall on their face). 11/21/10 Brady 31-28 Peyton (Game 10) 31-14 Pats in the 4th, another Peyton comeback attempt... doesn't work. Belichick is back to his old distraction spots as Manning is picked off 3 times. Brady is almost bored in this game, and the loss of Moss seems to have left him a little aimless. 11/06/11 Brady 20-24 Eli (Game 6) A boring 10-3 game that explodes with 31 4th quarter points. Belichick and Brady think they have the Giants pinned with 1:30 left on the clock, but Eli kicks out, leads the Giants 80 yards for the pin with just 15 seconds left on the clock. Belichick & Brady are starting to have doubts on whether this goofy younger brother is really as goofy as they thought. 02/05/12 Brady 17-21 Eli (Super Bowl) With Peyton's career potentially over, the Belichick & Brady vs Manning feud was fully focused on Eli now. Another shooting match where everyone thought the good "booking" was to put the Pats over to restablish them as the Top Heels in the NFL. Eli had other ideas, tired of the years of Belichick & Brady beating up his brother. He also had a rivalry with his brother, and beating Brady in two Super Bowls is something Big Brother would never be able to top. Where does the feud go from here? Good booking would still be to re-establish the Pats. The Pitt territory might have seen its better days, and the Baltimore territory never developed into the monster heels they were projected to be earlier in the past decade. The Cowboys have turned into stooge heels, so mediocre that they can't be booked into post season main events. The Jets looked like great loudmouth heels, but may be past their peak if Sanchez doesn't take it to the next level. The League needs strong heels to run against babyface teams like the Pack and Saints, and the tweener Giants, and potential young terms like the Lions. Who other than the long time main eventers Brady & Belichick can work on top against them? John

Great way for the Pats to get their heel heat back after jobbing: Brady's valet heeling it up and even cheesing off other members of the Pats. John

One of the greatest things ever in pro wrestling. Though perhaps his finest moment was his promo on Raw after Sting beat him at Super Brawl, basically send Hall after Sting for the World Title because he (Hogan) had more important things to do. Just when folks thought that WCW was moving off into a post-Hogan era with Sting on top, Terry reminded everyone who The King was. One of the greatest Evil Speaches of Evil ever. John

I think 90% is a significant exaggeration. Here are two Hogan matches walked through back-to-back: 05/18/87 & 06/14/87 Hogan vs Race Hogan is giving to Harley and sells for him, but he also gets plenty of his own licks in. The Hogan Match Formats almost always have some early Hogan Ass Kicking segment, either right off the bat when he's kicking the heel's ass, or coming shortly in as payback for the heel cheap shotting to an early advantage. Totally agree on the general theme that Hogan is a willing seller for heel to set up for the Big Comeback. John

I had some fun farting around with the concept when Loss rolled it out in this thread: Build a show Looks like I ended up with Loss' #1, #12, #13, #18, #35, #61, #71 and #88 of 1996. John

Kevin is correct: It was a two bout series, with the "third" being the tag. John

So was there much sadness among the MMA=Pro Wrestling brigade that Conditt has to go and screw up the big money booking by beating Diaz? Or was the thought: * Diaz already has major heel heat * Diaz doesn't need to win to draw against GSP * Conditt is a vanilla babyface * Conditt needed more juice to draw with GSP * Diaz putting over Conditt helps elevate Conditt * Conditt vs GSP draws decent now * Diaz then can be moved up into a grudge match with the winner * even is Conditt pulls a miracle against GSP, they still eventually can go to GSP-Diaz for big money "You see... this isn't classic US Booking where you go with the instant big money, but a more layered Choshu-style booking where you can draw a number of big gates." -MMA=Pro Wrestling Brigade John

My write up was a week or two after it in the letters page, and as I've said several times over the years he had it in hand before he saw the match. I'm pretty sure I was closer to Sgt Peppering it than Dave was. But as I said in the first response in the thread: *I* didn't think it was the GOAT at the time, and it's unlikely that anyone has written more about the match, discussed it more or praised it more than me in the past 18 years. So... People believe it was handed down to Moses on stone as the Word of God GOAT and never to be challenged as such are either: ( a ) don't know the history of GOATs ( b ) delusional ( c ) pretty defensive More ( c ) than anything else. John

Chico rated Storm higher than Tito for the WWE HOF? John

Bret only "didn't have any dates" because Vince didn't book him on clear dates other than (i) Raw and (ii) the next PPV. If Vince booked Bret on every TV and house show the balance of November, Bret would have been on them. Now *how* Bret was booked/programed on those cards would have fallen under the contract. If Vince sent Bret around the horn and on TV in singles matches with Shawn getting pinned every night, Bret could have objected to it. John

To clarify Bix's point: Bret's contract terminated 11/30/97. Montreal: 11/09/97 Raw The Next Night: 11/10/97 So this: "It would have been incredibly simple to craft a legally binding agreement with Bret to show up to RAW the next night and drop the title..." Is moot. Bret was under a legally binding contract. One that Vince breached. John

Looks largely like the old website. John

Onita also learned a lot from Terry Funk, long before he went to Memphis. Not saying that he didn't learn anything from his time in Memphis, but there were a variety of things that went into what made him tick. That's also more from a "work" standpoint rather than exactly a Promotional or Booking standpoint. You'd have to get someone who is an expert in both FMW and also the potential US promotional and booking influences to figure that one out. John