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I thought the intro summed up the point of it: John

Looks like someone is going to need to update the "Personal life" and "Legal issues" section of Ric's wiki page. John

One does have to find the sheer con man qualities of Ric Flair in 2007 opening up a finance company after years of welching on his own debts. John

And it happened long before Dave started pointing to them. John

What Bix says. Can't say it anymore clearly or emphatically. This may come across brutally, but they're at the point where their friends (and frankly their fans) need to just let go and wash their hands. It's a hard thing to do with someone you care about who is an addict. In the end, you can't help someone who doesn't want help. Neither of them do right now, and haven't for as long as any of us can remember. Whether they ever will, who knows. John

I am interested with the source of that. Almost all of the rest of the items look like they're from court papers. There's some ugly stuff that's come out in them, no doubt some of it he-said-she-said... though not to the degree that Flair Defenders make out. But the alcoholic cardiomyopathy... where is that from? I don't think Ric would ever use it in one of his own filings, or cop to it in a depo unless really pushed with clear evidence. I would guess that it might be in the last divorce and that she dropped it into the record. His twitter is: @TobaccoRdBlues Can someone on twitter ask him the source of that specific item? John

And the fate of the beloved Ric Flair Finance: Damnit... that stuff has been sitting in public court records for several years. I'd love to read all the stuff from that one. John

I'm guessin the "millions in annuities" is right. Just that they were all gone, considering he cashed out $100K in an annuity to get Wife #3 a ring. Gone long before the "millions in annuities" meme was started up. Of course I'm sure Flair Reporters will say that _after_ the divorce form Beth that he restocked up with a bunch of new annuities that somehow survived future divorces and all of Ric's debts. John

Yeah... even then it was known what he was up to. John

That was back in 2006. How many more annuities do you think he's cashed in? The only thing that might prevent him from having cashed in all of them would be Beth having a cut in them and a court order preventing it. That doesn't mean that Ric, given all the other financial stunts he's pulled over the years, hasn't signed over his rights in them to get loans to keep the highlife going. I think anyone thinking about it for more than a minute always knew the "millions in annuities" claim was horseshit in the sense that Ric would simply leverage them all out for money to spend today, and never see a dime of them down the road. John

I know there was another thread started on this, thought I'd toss it in the Flair's Trainwreck Archival Thread. The Wrestler in Real Life: Ric Flair's long, steady decline What I said over on the Torch boards: It is a bit sad that a staff writer at an ESPN site put together a timeline like this from public court documents rather than two wrestling reporters who have covered Ric the most over the past two decades... one of whom has most of these records in his own backyard. John

Hell... I forgot to look at SNME thinking it was long since dead at that point. John

Yeah, Shango-Bret was a feud after Shango-Warrior was over. Quite a few house show matches, even after Bret won the title. I don't see a clear TV match in 1992 on Graham's site. Perhaps in 1993? Taped 5/4/93; Worcester, MA; Memorial Auditorium 6/5/93 Superstars Bret Hart defeated Papa Shango via submission with the Sharpshooter at around the 7-minute mark after Shango missed a legdrop Probably that one? Not super major, though Bret wrestling a competative match on Superstars rather than a squash is semi-major. It was well after they feud was over, just kind of rolled out there. John

Misawa would go to the crucifix pin on rare occassion. He used it to take the TC back from Hansen in 1995. John

I'm just giving you a hard time. John

You need to jot down in your notes an initial star rating so that you have at least something to go back on. Flik seemed to have dug it a ton, and MJH seemed to as well. This: Sounds like at least a *** match, and that there was more than just booking but you kept it short. John

BTW - good piece. Massive trainwreck. John

Bix: you need to tag your PWISpyware links. I damn near clicked on it, thinking you much be linking to something else after the "nameless" comment (revese psychology on me there ). Good thing I looked at the link. John

It put him over to us hardcores. For WWF Fans, TV pushed the Hogan-Sid finish. How important was it to the WWF? The doctored the audio to support their Mania main event plans. John

I think before folks get to the Holy Demon Army as a way to Taue into the HOF, they really needs to work on Ishingundan / Choshu's Army first. John

Sid was the top heel: * caused Hogan to lose the Rumble rather than Flair to "win" the Rumble * got the main event at Mania against Hogan rather than Flair * Hogan & Piper vs Sid & Flair = Hogan Leg Drops Flair 1-2-3 * Flair promptly dropped the title to Savage to *start* their feud * Warrior got the SummerSlam spot opposite Savage in a no-heel double main event One gets the feeling that if Sid hadn't had issues pissing in a bottle that it would have been Savage-Sid at SummerSlam. Flair was "a" top heel... one of the top 2. But he wasn't put over strong. Even with strong angles against Hogan, Piper and Savage, there never was strong payoff in any one of them to make him look strong. John

What Bix said. I can't grasp that anyone thinks this is a road to recovery from addiction: "I think if people just left them alone & didn't make a big deal about every little thing they do they might realize what's important and grow up and get their lives together. [...] They just need some time & space out of public eye for a while." John

I don't mind the What chants. Zero "what" chants at PWG on Saturday. On the other hand, there are always lots of "woo!" calls when someone uses a chop. I don't mind the woo! when Ric uses a chop... but when everyone else does? John

No. We typically get some comments after Raw on what's up with it / how it's going / etc. The posts after Raw were still on SCE and asking me about Eddie Edwards. I was wondering what people thought of what happened on Raw. John

So how is the angle going? John